Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Avira > what we’re really saying is that to be a gadol beyisroel, one needs to be free of all foreign influence. One must have pure daas torah.
Please define what “free of foreign influence” is and what the source for that is. Was Rambam tainted by secretly reading Aristotle and studying Muslim science? Was Rabban Gamliel tainted by his atrsolobe and having 1000 members of his household studying Greek? Rav Salanter’s son was a mechanical engineer and an inventor and Rav was proud that he was able to re-engineer his son’s invention by seeing the drawings. Is mussar out now?
Avira > he said they’re real, and very important. And what he says fits into what the “derech moshol” might mean in the iggeres, but in no way has any authority ever said that the shevuos just don’t matter, or we can disregard them because they’re “just agadeta”, again, whatever that means.
I think we now agree here that the shevuos are, on one hand, important and are there to guide our attitudes but, on the other hand, not simplistic halachik conclusion that any movement towards EY is verbotten unless it is fully in conformance with Beis Shammai. In fact, I recall Vilna Gaon’s commentary on Hagada HaLachma Ani is that Jews will first go to EY and only later become Bnei Chorin.
Des[ite some Rebbes here admiring themselves and their colleagues, there are, unfortunately, enough teachers who are suboptimal even in their sober state, kal vahomer drunk. I presume every Teacher who understands the challenge of his job would think thrice before diminishing his capacity. Maybe a better question would be a testimony of how gedolim behave on Purim. Chafetz Chaim? R Aharon Kotler? Rav Soloveichik? Rav Feinstein?
> NO gedolim whatsoever follow the Zionist/Mirachi/Daati Leumi/Modern Orthodox shittas
“No True Scotsman” fallacy.
> Do you deny the validity, importance or existence of the Rambam’s Igerres Teiman?
Avira just brought his Rebbe as an authority on this. Question him first.
Avira > I’ve heard a different reason from Rav Belsky, who said that the shvuous might not be a din, but they are a metzius … emulate yaakov avinu’s behavior with eisav before they met goyishe leaders
ok, this makes sense, not sure why this was not posted earlier! If this is a general approach of avoiding haughty behavior whether in EY or outside, I am totally on board. It is also in Beitza 25 – Hashem gave us Torah and derech eretz inside it to prevent us from overwhelming other nations (that is, their negative reaction to our hutzpah/azut is a problem for us and Hashem, but our azut is undesirable by itself and goyim need to live their life too in the eyes of Hashem).
But with this definition, state of Israel is no more a theological problem, but a practical problem on how to deal with their errors and excesses.
> Tappan Zee Bridge
Is it back already? I ended up in Vermont while looking for the sign.
Lie detector test is a good addition – “do you plan to cut social security”, “are billionaires at fault for everything” … but I believe best liars pass it with flying colors.
This is not a big stretch, btw, no legislation required, just a private initiative. Maybe YWN can organize a debate and add these rules.
The only downside is that Indians and Chinese will have highest SAT scores. But we are not requiring them to get into Oxford, just an assurance that they can do basic math.
some strong points above!
1) Jews did not return to EY by force, this was immigration over decades, mostly with permission of the current authorities, and without weapons. Neighboring Arabs were not an authority, Brits under UN mandate were, thus UN vote seems like an authoritative call. As Avira says, when other countries attacked, self-defense seems legit
2) a letter to Teiman not making it into codices. How often do we have issues of such importance not making it into halakhic books? do we have examples?
so many good questions!
> drinking is a סרך איסור כרת?
surely, drinking leads to a lot of issurim. Read R Twersky’s books that our community is not immune to that.> can be an example of drinking the way as appropriate for yidden
this is a good idea and is very convincing – especially after a couple of shots! Do I think that when I drink l’chaim (and my neighbor joins me) and then I stop (and he does not), that he will feel an urge to stop when he seems me _walking_ home – or he might still get into his car? Absolutely! (not).> Fortunately, most who do drink, don’t drive and many don’t even have a car.
“Rov” is not good enough measure here. If we don’t do shofar on Shabbos because of someone who might carry it (even as the only ones without eruv are OOTers) – might think twice about drinking atmosphere that createsa permissive environment.> We have to worry that those who wear a sign saying I don’t drink on purim/I don’t get drunk on purim,
you might live in some liberal enclave that I am not aware of. Discussion is not about signs “I don’t drink” but rather about NOT having signs “I am drunk”.> It’s left a deep scar on his psych.
this is way worse than drinking.Kids say that Miami vacations are not cool anymore, Dubai is. So, when there will be a first Pesach hotel on moon and there will be a spirit flight there, the halachik solutions will follow.
Some problems will go away if you stay on a geo-stationary orbit, that is above a specific place on earth. Then, you can apply the times of the closest (Jewish) place on earth, same as you do above the polar circle.
> What did Mir do in Shanghai?
Learn?
Even experienced bikers get into accidents. Also, you are negatively affecting the Jewish people by using bike paths (or even worse, signing petitions to create new ones). You then force Yidden with kids in minivans to squeeze by in the remaining part of the road, leading to a lot of bitul Torah and mental aggravation from being locked up with the kids in traffic while you are enjoying your ride in gasoline-infested air.
Avram > ignores the reality of how smartphones and their apps are designed.
Indeed. I first got struck by that when I let my young kid to play an innocently-looking game, and we had to go somewhere, so I asked to play “until the end of this game”, and he replied – “what do you mean, this game does not end”… But this is also true to any other information source: we are currently at disadvantage: information holders, whether game, search engine, Russian hackers, computer shadchanim – all have information about large number of us and can tune their message to convince us.
I see an analogy here with 19th century disbalance between factory owners and workers, leading to a lot of turmoil in society. We eventually overcame this somehow, and not just by unionizing and killing factory owners, although that happened also. Same should happen with information holders – we should make ourselves smarter and stronger.
Avram > It’s already Adar where you are??
[After taking some time to consider the question] Yes.
While we should respect the elderly, we also need tests – and not just for elderly. Put them all through a battery of tests – IQ, SAT, LSAT, NYT crosswords – as a condition to participate in the debate. It is silly that we are selecting leaders of the free world with less information than the college gets about applicants.
Wolf, kol hakavod. We are not doing yevamos any more as we are not sure we are doing it “for the mitzva”. I am not sure I know people who drink “for the mitzva” also … Given what is going on in our society, not drinking is probably the right thing to do. Even if you personally think you can do it right, you are encouraging others and who knows where they stand.
The question is – what do you do with 4 cups on Pesach? This is a more restricted environment, so my objections above do not hold.
Baby > I see this as a waiting game
Yes, maybe more than just being a passive observer. Most of Tanach is about Jews fighting with each other for this thing or another, I don’t think there ever was an expectation that we should only live on EY and be brothers with other Jews only when everything is according to our favorite hashgoho. Even our most revered Kings were appointed after Shmuel castigated the Jews for their desire to appoint one.
> Israel has a world-class military, world-class firepower, and world-class trained soldiers. The Palestinians have old kalashnikovs, poorly trained fighters, and very little resources. No, it is not a neis nigleh that Israelis can trounce them.
Maybe the fact Israel has a world-class miitary is a neis nigleh?
“halacha was given with galus in mind, ” – where did it have in mind polar circle or southern hemisphere where seasons are upside down?
so, if we are supposed to do hishtadlus for frei yidden, then we probably should meet them where they are – and half of them are in Medinat Israel. Not sure then what “supporting medinah” mean v. other activities? None of us are voting in UN … many gedolim support voting for various reasons …
does working and paying business count as “supporting”? Maybe you consider paying taxes to “medinah” an aveira and prefer to avoid those, or allow taking their money because you will be a better judge of how to use it? I don’t see how this is different from getting into a business partnership with some frei Yidden – I presume you should respect common interest and be an honest partner, while still protecting your keeping shabbos and all. Do you have classical sources how to behave in such partnership?
Gittin 62 from another thread discusses minimizing saying shalom to non-Jews who work in EY during shemitah, maybe that can give some support to your position.
Seems like Gittin 62 revolves around this question – Rav Huna and Rav Ḥisda decide not to stand up for this Rav, who is BT, but still a baal machlokes, but then ask questions and listen to his divrei Torah.
Is it often that Resh Lakish would argue with R Yohanan on the basis of mesorah?
Seemingly, R Lakish has his mesorah _from_ R Yohanan, so he might argue based on his knowledge of how swords are made. Of course, one might read his story as he was a TC before becoming a gangster.
Also, note that R Yohanan “seduced” RL with the offer of his sister as a wife – and RL took him on the offer. Presumably, they waited for the chasaneh until RL showed that he is serious in his learning, so his learning did not diminish his interest in RY’s sister …
Of course, the simplest application of text learning is do the mod job. If the mods were to send me an archive of the posts they rejected, it should be possible to train a mod bot for at least some of that hard work.
Halakha adapted to a lot of things. We have so much of Torah relating to B’M, and we now live without it. Does it mean we need to strive to live on a planet with 7 moons? No, but if we end up there, we will figure out what to do. Maybe do rosh hodesh for each of the moons.
it makes sense to have 12 months by shvatim, but why is BHM the shortest? Let’s have 32 days in February
Re: Rambam and the oaths. I don’t think this has the weight you imply. This is a letter to a subjugated community under duress, and he is trying to stop them from a rebellion that will surely lead to their full destruction. How would Rambam react to a viable Jewish state in EY remains unresolved from that, I think.
We might infer Rambam’s view on desirability of modern Israel in EY here: he asks you to consider the world to be balanced in mitzvos and aveiros and yours to be a deciding factor, so presumably he would just sum up mitzvos v. aveiros in EY to make a decision. I don’t know how to calculate this precisely, but it seems that proportion of Jews keeping shabbat, yomim tovim, kashrut, marrying Jews is way higher than in US or Ukraine for the lst 100 years.
> US makes it a lot easier to be a kolel family than israel does, with limitless opportunities for the women to work, and with better government programs.
Some of the Israeli social programs, as I understand, are directly supporting charedi communities due to their participation in politics, while US programs are geared towards supporting poor who are not able to find work, so they are not available for erliche yiden.
> i will aay that they take from us more than what they give. They are unauthorized to take taxes, yet they do.
there is such a thing as contract. People living together as one country agree on a government system that is entitled to govern within the norms. You are usually free to leave and join some other country if you wish so, but cheating while pretending to “contribute more” will not gain you many friends here or elsewhere. Even if you feel victimized, remember R Huna who refused to pay workers who already “helped himself” is shown to be wrong both min hashamayim and by other Talmidei Chachomim.
> Didn’t chazal cancel mitzvos in order to not do aveiros, like lulav and esrog on shabbos, because maybe, maybe one yiddeleh would carry?
Avira is seeing the light finally and starting to advocate for rescinding the chumros that lead some to see the rest of us as baalei aveira?
Avram, I am not insisting on ranking, just trying to understand the difference. To get to this –
are there TCim that are not ben Torah? learning well, but sometimes reads newspapers?
are there BT that are not TChim? guided by the Torah but not so good at learning it?ok, there is actually bar Torah in Gemora:
Brochos 11 Shmuel to Rav’s son, looks like this is a reference to his father’s sayings.
Sukka 43 – same thing reference to father’s statementOther references (only one in Gemora not to refer to someone’s actual father) seem to assume, like the posters here, that everyone know what this term means, even as it is pretty rare:
Gittin 62 has a Bar Torah Geneva (??) that Rashi explains as “ben Torah” who seems to like to argue – and has no (R) in front of his name.
More Nevuhim mentions that BT understands that even punishment from Hashem is not “bad”
Mishna Berurah uses the term in passing.Avram, I did not know it ended already! seriously, help me with the definition of “ben Torah” – what is the origin and definition of current usage? Gemora is full of discussions about Talmid Chacham should behave, but what do people say in shidduchim when the question is “is he ben Torah”? And is “bat Torah” a too modern term, or a BY graduate qualifies?
Even with TC, there are some ambiguities – Torah supposed to be founded upon middos and affect them and prescribes behavior standards, but there are Gemoras that imply that one can be an imperfect TC not living up to those standards – se Pesachim 49 – TC glutton, Shabbat 63 – nasty like snake, Taanit 4- angry.
CDc learnt shev v’al ta’aseh?! Do they also send out reminders to say “Oseh Maaseh Breishis”?
>real Ben Torah with a smartphone
> what do you think he does with it?I would first need to know who is BT? (dubious acronym, that I need to clarify with even more dubious: Ben Torah, NOT Baal Teshuva, to which Gerer Rebbe would answer – “why NOT”). I see multiple references to BT – from R Feinstein to R Lamm, but I do not see a clear definition. I am guessing this is a slightly lower level than Talmid Chacham: TC someone who strives to be a full Chacham, but is humble to call himself the one – and BT is someone who seems to claim that his behavior is fully guided by Torah, but not ambitious to become a Chacham? Sort of a Talmid who is on non-degree path?
So, if we were to talk about TC, halakha is clear: you presume the best. So, I would think that his wife is expecting or/and his mother is not feeling well, so he needs a call. Or he is a doctor or a real estate broker and the phone is part of his parnosa, or he is learning off YUTorah site (or is this l’gnai?). Of course, none of this releases him from other halochos – greeting people first, not bumping into them while walking or driving.
So, if BT is a lower level than TC, I am not sure whether we have to give hum same benefit of doubt. Possibly, we give it to TC because he is constantly reviewing his behavior (do not question him in the morning about aveira he did yesterday night, as he surely did teshuva). If BT is not doing that, then he may not deserve the benefit, and if he does – then he is TC!
This article has 3 references to Haaretz out of 282, and they are more anti-Polish than anti-Jewish, so this is not a problem for this article at least.
Possibly this article have changed but current Wiki article on Holocaust in Poland looks reasonable (and you can see that many carefully worded phrases probably resulted from long discussions, as Wiki is supposed to work). See below a couple of references to Communist Jews that indeed reflect Stalin’s policy of appointing Jews and other minorities as fronts of his regime exploiting and increasing the tension. We know similar things from our internal strives in 19th century, when Misnagdim and Chasidim in Vilno appealed to new Russian occupiers for support and were ultimately used by Russia to weaken the communities, or even going back to Pompeii invited to solve fighting between brothers. Hopefully, all these fight focus on real criminals – Nazis and Soviets, rather than creating fight between Jews and Poles who were both the victims.
Antisemitism …
Joseph Stalin’s occupation of terror in eastern Poland in 1939 brought what Jan Gross calls “the institutionalization of resentment”,[169] whereby the Soviets used privileges and punishments to accommodate and encourage ethnic and religious differences between Jews and Poles. There was an upsurge in the anti-Semitic stereotype of Jews as Communist traitors; it erupted into mass murder when Nazi Germany invaded Soviet eastern Poland in the summer of 1941Local people had witnessed the repressions against their own compatriots, and mass deportations to Siberia,[228][229] conducted by the Soviet NKVD, with some local Jews forming militias, taking over key administrative posts,[230] and collaborating with the NKVD. Other locals assumed that, driven by vengeance, Jewish communists had been prominent in betraying the ethnically Polish and other non-Jewish victims.[231]
Of course, Jews knew Karen first – she is one of the 4 types of Nezek, the aggressive one. If Karen tries to pay only half of her damage, she needs to prove that her mother is Jewish. In this case, she is called Karen bas Karen (like mother, like daughter)
Ben Torah had to worry about consequences. It is called Moris atn
CTL, thanks for a free consultation. I am ready to sign up as your client!
Are you getting a subsidized ACA plan as you are “cash poor”? That seems like a undesirable feature.
If ACA gives you a reasonable non-subsidized plan, essentially giving you a group-plan option without having a large employer, that would be a good feature. It would be even better if government enables private plans to provide unrestricted plans, possibly directly subsidizing those who need it.CTL, while you have a point about the need of insurance, still:
1) DR P is correct about prevention. I think 2 largest medical expenses are end of life (that you wrote about) and chronic diseases – many of the latter are lifestyle-based.
2) you should notice a seeming paradox – a well-off person like you can not afford medical care. Someone is paying for it, right? Is it that the most filthy-rich pay so much taxes that they pay for insurance for all of us, including you? Probably, not (at least according to people claiming that rich are not paying their share). The other option is that your own taxes are paying for it. Say, you earn modest $300K/year (in current year money) for last 40 years. So, you paid income tax $80K*40 = $3.2mln i just federal taxes. This is not counting 3% medicare tax, $400K, FICA 15% = $1.8 mln, + social security + cap gains + CT tax + medical insurance that you were paying … It is way possible that if the government were to give you a modest discount on your generous donations, you would be able to afford your own healthcare. Instead, government made you (somewhat) poor and then comes to help you.
I am less familiar with Israeli demonstrators, but in the US context, wherever there is a group complaining about double standards from police – they might be right, but they should not have been doing what they were doing in the first place.
Coffee – because I am familiar with the technology and how it is tested.
Can someone ask the GPT:
– do we pasken like Beis Shammai or Beis Hillel?
– do we pasken like Rav or like Shmuel?
– do we pasken like Avira or like AAQ?
– what did Chofetz Chaim said about Rav Kook?
– what did Chofetz Chaim said about Rav Kook ZT’L?ChatGPT, welcome to CR. You will fit in well here.
> That is just the environment that is most conducive to do so and just happens to be in the public eye.
there is no invasion of privacy here, all you see is black hats and dark-colored dresses, almost impossible to know who that is! The only people to recognize would be parents (who should not be there) and friends (who are on their own dates at the same time)
> until the shidduch is signed-off on by the shadchan,
if this were the requirement, Yaakov Avinu would still be an older single … I actually saw a sefer referring a certain gadol who would refuse a shidduch unless thru a shadchan. At the same time, private advice I am getting from Rabonim with successful shiduch experiences if double-digits kenehora is …. “shadchanim did not work out for us”. Don’t know who to believe – a sefer or my own ears.
> One such obligatory cause is giving people to continue living how they are accustomed to.
Load the animal “with him”… if a person is not doing his part, I do not think there is an obligation. Please check if this is discussed in the footnotes to your favorite halachik source and let us know what the answer is.
Rocky > I agree that the ideal would be to give to family that I know personably and can attest to their genuine need. However, I would guess that most donors are not in that position…It should not be too difficult in many (not all cases) for an organization to contact a reputable Rav
One way is for you personally to ask someone who you consider a reputable Talmid Chochom and who lives modestly, not involved in official fund collection, to distribute your funds. One Rav I know collects funds in US, calls his personal friend in Yerushalaim, who distributes amount he is told the same day.
Every time you give to organization, whether it is CJP, shul, school, you empower that institution. I would do this only when 100% aligned with the organization.
When Avraham Avinu was confronted with this problem, he answered simply “my sister”.
n0 > what do both bring to the table?
right, I think this the right question.
YV is definitely better at producing large families and large number of cheder teachers, and keeping young people away from trouble. MO is better at producing people with balanced lifestyle that integrate Torah into normal life, being able to apply Torah concepts to finding time to learn, doing business and paying taxes, and relating to the world knowledge.
In terms of best Teachers in the higher sense of this world, then I find people who combine both approaches are the most successful. This include either more “modern” Rabbis, like R Soloveichik [who actually says that Jewish community is organized around a Teacher, not around political party], who at the same time have solid learning, or more traditional Rabbis who to some degree interacted with the modern world, such as Lubavitcher Rebbe. I find similar characteristics in Teachers I meet personally – they are either Modern with solid yeshivish background or Yeshivish who experienced modern world in some way.