Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
7-11 has a free drink day, would it be Nov 7 in Israel?
I usually use this to discuss with kids that they need to actually buy something before or during the “free” day. Sone matanos.
interesting question whether all changes are only chumros and gezeiros …
first, “greater beis din” was less of the issue in antiquity, as such things happened…
not sure whether conditional get by Dovid was a change or not
allowing moabite women – if not a kula, at least a clarification– changes in school systems and ketuba during BM2 – not really kulos or chumros, just changes searching for successful social results.
– shemen akum – was announced and taken back within a year because people did not accept it.
– writing down Oral Torah
– all post-BM2 changes
– allowing taking money for teaching or even learning Torah and probably other things that are allowed because “our generations are weaker”ok, so I think we all agree that “halakha changed”.
Avira puts a couple of useful caveats to that:
– easier to add chumros, gedorim than other way around based on “greater beis din”
– applications change, but principles stay the sameI mostly agree with these, just pointing out that the serious answer is longer than “halakha did not change”. I actually once – many years ago – tried to be friendly with a C- Rabbi. His first question was “do you agree that halakha change”. I answered “yes”. He then deduced “so, you agree with us?”. Surprised, I answered “no”. He somehow got upset and ended the conversation. Maybe, his expectations were too high after the “yes”.
a gemora discussing birth control doesn’t presume the girl to be married?
shoun, then how about a gemora discussing a joint revocation of girl’s neder by the father and the hatan? this can happen only before 12, and marriage should happen within a yearAvira – They also believe halacha can change. That’s something all of them, left and right, agree to. And it makes them heretics.
yes, indeed. but saying that halacha doesn’t change would make you a tzeduki… we discussed here multiple times how halacha changed over time without making any of us C.
YS, so for $15k, you’ll send the kid?
The difference is – people voted Trump in to overturn and fix the system, and then they voted for Biden to “return to normality”. So, in eyes of the voters, Trump’s shortcomings are price paid for dealing with the issues he did (I listed them before, so I’ll spare). But Biden has no other attraction as being solid and organized. Turns out (not just in this episode) that his strengths were oversold.
Gadol,
“rich” people pay most of the taxes, what is the argument that they should pay even more?Even proportional taxation is not so clear from the first principles: yes, rich may get proportional benefits from the government in, say, protecting their property, but in other aspects – say, voting, medical insurances, the benefits are the same for everyone, so “fair” taxation should be proportional or less.
So, after you skip the intentional lie of “free stuff” for poor, then you can see that reducing taxes is supporting your expressed desire to stop extra spending. The argument that probably comes from Goldwater to Reagan is to “starve the beast”: it is difficult to get rid of a specific program because there are specific beneficiaries – people with bad teeth; missile makers; etc – but there are no particular objections from the taxpayers, as each program is “only $10 per person”… So, the creative solution is to reduce collections to make it harder to spend. Results in a debt? well, the alternative would be to collect more taxes and then increase spending to whatever is possible, leading to a similar debt … for example, pre-Obama debt-to-GDP was 86% just slightly higher than France 70+ and Germany 60%. Obama broke through the Reagan’s trick by increasing spending despite the debt making the ratio 138%, France did similarly, but Germany stayed at 75% (cheap Russian gas and exports to China).
There is nothing new here – Gemora calls government “wailing poor” because they always ask for more.
not charging interest is a form of chesed, so it might be questionable to do it to avdei kochavim. Presumably, you have a decent person in this case, so this might not apply (I think Radaq says this).
I am not sure what the difference is with returning a lost object, maybe because the latter one is really an extreme behavior that most non-Jews do not extend to each other.
SQRT
I thought it is in Nedorim, but could not find so far, sorry. Here are a couple related ones:
Nedarim 81 – pay attention to poor children as Torah comes from them
Nedarim 40 – R Akiva visiting a sick student not visited by anyone and saved him as, apparently, people paid attention to him otherwise (was he poor? AAQ)jackk > wealthy individuals tax breaks which caused the debt to go up 5.9 Trillion dollars.
jackk, we really are able to read propaganda on their original sites if we are interested … If you want to have an ehriche Jewish discussion, please do not refer to not taking someone else’s money as breaks that cause debts. I can tell you more, I am missing out on a lucrative investment right now because jackk did not give me $100K. If you believe in what you say, please figure out my address and wire me a check while bitcoins are so dirt cheap.
> They have no issue sending 800 Billion dollars to the military every year when we are not at war and have not been in a real war for decades.
please refresh your browser, you are reading off 2021 talking points. There is an actual war in Europe going on for almost a year where US military equipment is being used.
Maskil > Claiming that the Torah needs to be hyphenated (e.g. Ethical-Torah ) is a claim that the Torah is Chas vishalom deficient in some way, rl.
right, I agree with the sentiment. But modernity brings this need to define your position. A similar unreasonable term is “Orthodox Judaism” – as if there are others (R’L), but everyone is using the term to define themselves. So, while “ethical O” sounds corny, there is – again R’L – who are not careful on that.
> So sometimes we have people who follow some of the Torah and succumb to their Yetzer hora and act in an unethical manner . This doesn’t reflect negatively on the Torah, Chas vishalom.
This is mamash opposite of what Chazal say on this issue – our inappropriate behavior reflects on how people think of Torah.
Just to see how we view different aspects of Torah – if you were to suggest that it is OK to wait one hour between meat and milk, you will be called apikores and pounded by citations, even as there are no Gemoras that contradict that. And while there are hundreds, if not thousands of Gemoras calling for exquisite thoughtfulness in bein adam l’havero, this is still up to debate.
Asking for a friend: I would be curious to see a teshuva explaining under which conditions insider trading is kosher.
This involves explicitly breaking a contract that a person signs and also ensuing hillul Hashem caused by almost inevitable SEC action.
Is one allowed to break a contract for no good reason?
And even if there is some heter for the contract – mybe the teshuva was written before (or was unaware of) SEC deploying algorithmic search for irregularities in trading.
YS, (putting on a teacher’s hat):
would you really say that $45K is too much to ensure your daughter’s neshoma, continuous (for the year) happiness, and secure future shidduch that comes with a haskoma of the line on the resume?
Eibishte sent you these $45K (even more pre-tax if you happen to have a W2) – how else would you spend it? Now an actual quote from a teacher: and if money is an issue for you, I can help you find a seminary that will take her for free.> From her perspective, the best shot at avoiding being left at the altar with no one, is to get married as early as possible
exactly, that is why this is not going to work out on it’s own, but requires leadership. I think I read Telshe yeshiva in the 70s saying that early marriages are the main causes of family problems in the frum community of that time…
YS > If all Roshei Yeshiva would get together and….”
Rav Steinsaltz wondered aloud why we simply not follow the Gemora that says when all Talmidei Chachamaim would daven together on the same street of Yerushalaim, Moschiach will come.
He also answered – we misunderstand it, It is only when Moschiach will come, such event will happen …
> intensity that brisket yeshivos offer,
I think file mignon yeshivas are more intense, at least from the point of view of required shechita.
Gemora lauds a Rav who did not differentiate between rich and poor kids …
I seriously doubt that Pres. Obama actually gave Joe classified information. Possibly Obama declassified them in his mind before giving them to Joe. (It will be fun when he is called to testify on that). Or, more likely, it was disinformation that was used to make it to Hunter and then to his Russian and Chinese employers.
Possibly it was something that caused Putin believe that he can win over Ukraine and provoked him into a hasty action. Like results of Joe’s IQ test. That’s it. That was the secret.
PIM2C, thanks!! Finally, I was asking here before what happened with ehrliche yidden… this is indeed connected to the topic and shows that there is nothing new here. So, maybe, the pompous statements above do not sound right for some people, but sentiment is correct.
you can _try_ davening in a Mosque, not sure whether you’ll get arrested though. But this is about Muslims being true monotheists, which does not prevent them from committing other atrocities, like quickly forgotten ISIS or still out there Iranians.
RBZS, you can make a case that Ukrainians might be guilty of something like what you say – they were close partners to Russians in Soviet Russia and now when they got their own state – and thus full responsibility for their actions, they might not have fully reconsidered some of the darker pages of their history.
Still, it is nonsense to discuss this in the context of the brutal invasion. Hashem punishes at his own level, we do not need to support (or not condemn) brutality. This is akin to Egyptians being at fault for prosecuting Jews, even as Hashem seemingly required it. You don’t have to be on the part of punishers. As Avraham Heschel writes about Spanish Jewry (really about German) – who were expelled right at the time of American acquisition – they were lucky to be victims (of inquisition) and not part of the perpetrators (of conquista)
I had same thought as Square Root: Russians expected increased dependency on their gas during winter and Hashem relieved it somewhat. This seems to be a machloket whether we expect Hashem to intercede as open miracles or hidden ones: when Rav Huna realizes that he was wrong not to pay salary to the workers who already stole his wares, his spoiled vinegar either turned back into the wine (one opinion) or the market price of the vinegar increased. So, here is a precedent of Hashem interceding into the markets, most likely through weather events.
at the end, people are usually in charge: according to a Midrash, Pharaoh first resisted persecuting Jews but succumbed to popular pressure; Jews did not go to EY because of popular outcry; and Hitler, Stalin, and Putin depended on popular madness that they carefully cultivated.
not sure what the issue is, but maybe other members of the community should be allowed to do something “different” as long as it is not bad or harmful. Maybe low self-esteem does not allow you to do what you think is the right thing for you?
Maybe this discussion will be more grounded if the proponents start simple. Rather than making grandiose statements, pick up specific gemoras that discuss what you would call “ethical behavior” and then make implications to current life.
This statement has very good intentions but very vague so it could be mis-directed, same way as “tikkun olam” by Reform. That is why you are immediately met with criticism here.
On the positive side, I heard specific statements along these lines from many “standard/RW orthodoxy” Rabonim, and if you read from R Salanter to R Avigdor Miller, you will find similar sentiment. R Miller, for example, suggests that batei dinim will be administering punishments to bad drivers.
Focusing on “saving an idolater” is an interesting theoretical bit to clarify positions, but it does not deny my experience thinking about saying gomel after driving through a parking lot in a “frum” town [several drivers dashing in front of me, a pair of frum drivers waiting to be towed after bumping into each other, and others driving around them creating further havoc, several children from B’H large families standing alone in the cars way]. There are many areas we can improve without getting into obscure issues.
> we should look at our forefathers during this crisis for a solution (as Klal Yisroel has always done)
a good approach! Do we have examples of Klal Isroel using polygamy as an emergency solution? Or at least, at the times before R Gershom increasing polygamy from a rare occurrence to a frequent practice?
Note that we had this problem at least once: when Jewish numbers were increasing dramatically during Yetziyas Mitzraim! Maybe it was mitigated by men being killed off directly or in labor camps.
Maybe that is why Amram marries his aunt? (presumably older than, say, a niece)Here are several possible solutions for parity under rapid growth, what do you think?
1) re-institute a 2-stage marriage with 1-2 years in between. I don’t think R Gershom forbade that!
This still means that the shidduch is done for immature people, but at least they are matched up and mature at the time of the chuppah. This is very similar to what was done in Eastern Europe in troubled times when children were matched up way early.2) nudge men to marry earlier. This goes against the trend of delaying maturity (of which extra yeshiva time is just one manifestation). Solution would be to teach in the yeshiva how to be a good husband and support the family. Sign up prenups that the boy can continue learning.
3) nudge women to marry later. This would lead to more mature marriages, but goes both against girls’ instincts and social pressure and also boys preferring “younger”. Maybe Roshei yeshiva can order their students not just to stay in the “freezer” but also no brides under 22 or pay back previously subsidized tuition (say, $1K multiplied by months before kallah’s 22).
4) focus kiruv on college women more than men. Pay shadchanus fee to college Hillel and Chabad Rabbis.
As mentioned above, Muslim rulers included Almahids that Rambam ran away from and thought to be the worst (not that he moved to artzot ashkenaz, of course 🙂
coffee, this is why democracy was not considered a viable system until recently. People with chochma need to establish guiderails for people to limit their collective greed.
You can’t easily generalize and you can’t go by how people “feel”. Jews that I know who lived in most Muslim countries are often bitter about their experience, even though historically their experience might have been better than other places. Nobody is going to be excited about being “less prosecuted” than someone else. So, personal anecdotes are subjective, and as mentioned above, different rulers had different effects.
Same thing in Europe – Polish Jews are very bitter about their pre-WW2 experiences, even as their circumstances were much better than nearby evil empires of Russia and Germany – and there were so many Jews in Poland because they moved their from other places. Maybe, they had higher expectations from a democracy and previous experiences, when both Poles and Jews were under Russians.
n0, this gemora presumes that the girl is married.
n0, thanks for the clarification.
Avira, using the pool does not sound like a big reason for a big b’dieved. Unless you tell me that parents will not send kids to the schools without a pool and will be a major parnosa loss.
Avira > Academics say that the cherem was because goyim had forbade it. Rabbeinu Gershom makes no mention of that. He says it’s because people can’t do it for the right reasons.
I understand your instinctive reaction at goyishe chochma, but we are all social beings. And rejecting history is apikoiresus. Gemora is full of examples of how institutions developed over time:
schools – parents -> Yerushalaim -> big high-schools -> small local schools;
ketuba – prepaid sum -> in F-I-L house -> mortgage on propertysame thing here: people not doing for right reasons may correspond to the fact that non-Jews were not doing it any more. Polygamy was not very popular (R Stensaltz writes that he knows of one Amora or Tanna who had 2 wives), so these will be strange people under strange circumstances who
will use it. Given the surrounding culture, people will be even less willing to do it, so the remaining cases will be even “weirder”.Also, note that Sephardim who lived in a culture permitting it, somehow were able to continue having this option. Did they have better attitudes?
> political to the teeth!
ROTFL. Indeed, dentistry is the remaining part of medicine that is not fully socialized, and there are still small dental practices where you can go to the dentist you trust.
ACA did not reduce the cost of medicine as far as I know, and so will socialist dentists. It will just force dentists from their practices and transfer costs to the taxpayers – and we will be paying THROUGH THE TEETH.
At the end, this is a free world. America happened to be founded and populated by people who literally ran away from countries with strong governments. Please respect our choice. If you prefer more government control, you can move to Germany, France, Russia, or Canada.
If you take over this country, the rest of us do not have much to go to – and the world will miss out on all future the achievements like the US brought to the world – Hollywood, Windows, Internet, Google, Facebook, NATO, F-35, … as the fortune cookies say “learn Chinese”
Avira,
I think sephardim are more assimilated in America than in Israel. Non-observant Ashkenazim in T-A are probably similar to their counterparts in US, but at least their children are Jewish and have some hope.3. Social pressure
Girls are absolutely for seminaries, and schools are telling them that their life will not be a life without it. Absolute madness. The patients taking charge of the asylum. This is deplorable and annoying and destructive to the yiddishkeit that we are trying to teach.2. Seminary v. HS
Why are we in the position that kids who spent 12-14 years in Jewish places of learning, require additional 1-2 years in an exciting environment to strengthen their neshomos?A) One answer: simply passing time in a dangerous moment when parental control is off, and a future husband is still learning Baba Kama. Seems like any other productive occupation – working, safe college, helping run the home – would also work. Maybe, after communities and schools help strengthen authority of parents so that girls at 18 accept their advice.
B) Seminaries actually teach something at higher level. Then, maybe need to ask a question – was it possible to teach THAT earlier? Possibly, the school system reflects the idea that kids will have more years to learn. What if HS is aware that girls not going to seminary and need to learn the “adult” things now – at 16 or 17? Maybe, different high schools are required who are capable to do that.
I’ve seen baalos teshuva learning during college and getting to a marriageable state in 2-3 years, without having much hesoron of missing on 12 years of pre-learning.
This affliction is not unique to Jewish school. Public schools similarly have “pre-pre-algebra”, algebra 1,2,3 .. for years. Kids are capable of learnings xs and ys without drawing the stress for years.
Girls seem to generally like the experience, recommend it to each other, and this might be the first question they ask each other when introduced. That is seminaries achieved the goal of making themselves the default option.
there are multiple questions here, not just one:
1) what are they to do anyway after HS? Unless you follow gemora that presumes girls mostly married after bas mitzva, you have an answer. Otherwise, she would be learning, working, or going to college.
a) Learning – in this case, doing it in Israel is a reasonable choice, especially for those who are going in into chinuch later. In Bava Basra discussion of schools (for sons), going to Yerushalaim is a second choice that was made after being taught at home: enthusiastic teachers in holy environment
b) Working – post-HS jobs are not always attractive. To work in a school, having 1-2 years of seminary would be helpful, although not recoup the pay, of course.
c) College – for those who send kids to a college away from home, a year of seminary might help to strengthen them spiritually. Also, many provide college credits that are at least acceptable by a couple of Jewish colleges that provide safe spiritual environment at a price (price of a college with better academics).
d) Safe college – a commuter or online college, and there is parental supervision and local learning and socializing options. [There is a 20-yo old article in some OU magazine by a campus Rabbi (sic!) telling people to send kids to local colleges, instead of “American tradition” of sending them away].
In this case, the seminary is not so useful and may be also not conducive to the girl’s development (exposing to additional teachers with some ideology) and possibly not able to use those credits when used in local/online colleges.
I don’t think it is forbidden to entry. It is probably forbidden to daven there (or by their rules?). R Soloveichik ruled, I think, that one can not go to shofar blowing to a R- place even if there is no alternative
CTL > secretary of Transportation does not run the day to day operations of the FAA.
I don’t know about this case, but there is a general tendency in government to work on what is visible to the bosses and public and ignore the rest. So every little item that is PC or otherwise inane by itself is not a disaster, but all together, they end up with people spending 90% of their time and money on secondary issues and ignoring, to some degree, the main ones, not even mentioning of wasting the money we gave them.
Also, analyzing one disaster will not give us a trend of what happened. For example, a number of times someone brakes abruptly is predictive of a chance of getting into an accident. So, you need to look at statistics of “pre-disasters” – cases where there were “almost collisions”, etc and see if they are increasing.
CTL > Armed man arrested
a description can be also subtle. Some people are called by where they live – New Yorker, others – by profession – accountant. One famous rioter was called “motorist”. This is not a libel, but a subtle hint that he had no job or address to describe with.
CTL, thanks for the explanation!
if police is not sure he is the right guy and also not sure tht the act was a crime, then it is sfek sfeika and he should be let go.
Divide your dental work in batches and do them by year. Sometimes dentists say that a lot is required, but some can “wait”. My, reasonably responsible, paskened one of my teeth a trefah and proscribed an immediate tehiyas hamesim – 10 years ago. I paskened that when a sofek, shev velo taaseh is good enough. He (dentist) is still looking at him (the tooth) every year while thinking about yeshiva tuition he can exchange this tooth for.
“way after” – up to a year. If the chassan is not ready by the day he committed, he is paying for her mezonos, so it is pretty sure that a pre-bas-mitzva girl will be in the shver’s house within a year.
Btw, you know it is not recommended to live with your wife’s parents – as her mother may be about your age … (Rav’s words, not mine)
there are also halochos when a girl can/needs to use birth control not to endanger her health when she is not yet ready for pregnancy. This is not an impression, pretty definite.
CTL, we are on the same page here. I had some of my (small number of) employees WFH for years, including working from their own states.
We are, in a sense, going back to the dignity of personal work that existed before the industrial age, when people worked in their yards or in small businesses. See Bava Basra discussions about what businesses are allowed or not in the courtyards – from tanneries to schools.
Also, halochos of employees are very sensitive to their dependency. For example, employer should give an advance notice when laying someone off, but the employee can quit any time (subject to not damaging the project). Forcing him to work after the notice makes him in some way an eved. So, the more freedom and flexibility employee can have, the more he is a free person.
n0, I don’t know whether Gemora mentions the age, maybe it does not bother as it is understood that the girls are interested in marriage and not distracted by books or jobs. But, the impression from various halochos related to marriage creates an impression that if by the bas mitzva the girl is still in the father’s house, it is time to say tehilim. This explains why nobody was clamoring for BY high schools at that time.