Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Maybe we should ask – what could posters do to improve themselves?
We are having here conversations between observant, and often learned, people who have very different haskofos. Many of us either do not have a chance to often meet other groups in person that often, and usually just say “gut shabbos” and do not get into discussions of haskofos. So, hopefully posters, and readers, use this chance to expand their horizons, maybe go read seforim by others, that are not necessarily “their” gedolim; look up classical sources that support different opinions.
To push this point, ask this question – how many opinions here correspond to where the person was born or went to cheder? I see only a couple of exceptions where people changed their derech based on their life experiences. Now, following one’s mesorah is a great thing, but please reflect whether if you were born in Kletzk and another person born in Pinsk, is it likely that Hashem’s truth resides in Kletzk, while for the other guy – Truth resides in Pinsk. Maybe, Emes is in neither and is in Minsk or even Damascus.
Aside of the stupid opinion on charedim, this tactics is still being used by the Russian army right now in Ukraine, sending former prisoners, minorities, foreigners, etc forward. The only change is they are not sending 1,000,000 people at a time into the line of fire any more, but usually in small groups, one group after another. Soldiers reported walking over bodies of previous groups.
2scents, thank you for trying to contrive a phrase that is both factually correct and sounds like an argument against the previous poster. If you have more respect for the readers, you could simply clarify what the facts are and what additional opinion you have.
please > What bothers me is the complete disregard for this fact that as long as one is following Halacha from his Rabanim, he is doing Ratzon Hashem.
We do not currently have a Sanhedrin, that we should follow – and if Sanhedrin makes a mistake there is a Torah-prescribed procedure for karbonos, so it even a mistake by a Sanhedrin is not an unthinkable situation. So, as we have multiple groups of rabbonim makes different rulings, at some point you become responsible for your decisions. This should especially apply to modern charedi community where many people spend years learning and, in addition, can access variety of other opinions with modern communication tools, starting with this CR. Respect for Rabbonim is great, but a large community of Talmidei Cahchomim should be able to ask questions of those Rabbonim – and, at the end, Rabbonim are indirectly elected by the community itself: you decide where to send your shailos, where to send your children to school, which Rebbe’s tisch to attend.
> But women should not be in the military under any circumstances.
So, chareidi public should send volunteers to substitute for these women.
Menachem > The same applies to Torah learners and physical fighters:
The problem is that partnerships are agreed upon (same applies to Issachar/Zevulun). It seems that learners and general Israeli public (ranging from loony left to traditional to observant-zioni to sephardim) do not fully agree on this. Surely, both sides are to blame, and probably there is not much can be done to appease the anti-religious left. But if many observant and Israeli traditional public is not happy with the arrangement, it may be that the learning-only community is at fault i their midos, learning, attitudes towards army, etc. Rather than saying “no” to any kind of engagement, they should be looking how they can help in any possible way.
unommin> learning going on in yeshivos is unable to protect them from a policy change by an AG in response to a court decision.
a good question. maybe because there is a mefurash gemoro in bava basra that says that Talmidei Chachamim will be protected from bandits and foreign governments, but there is no gemora (as far as I know) protecting from a duly elected knesses yisroel and their shotrim. So, Hashem is not able to help them in the absence of a clear gemoro.
Shaszeri > but they are at least contributing to some extent by learning Torah and becoming תלמידי חכמים
I am more worrying about quality of Torah Learning than of lack of soldiers in Tzahal. If students are subjected to distortions of Torah for political reasons – on either side of all these complex issues – then it is not a real Torah they are learning. This “learning” might solve the social role keeping a community observant of many of the mitzvos, but I don’t think it is a learning that keeps integrity of Torah. So, people end up spending their lives at a shtender and miss the mark. We see it here sometimes with posters being rude, obnoxious, ignorant, and dismissive of truth, while at the same time being “learned” in gemora and poskim.
some > We have gedolim who have been clears as day that it is better to leave eretz yisroel than join the kofrim in their sins.
Many of us are not in Israel and are not serving. But if you live in Israel, you are benefiting from the protection of the army. A simple logic is that one owes something for protection. We can argue halochos that some students might be exempt – if you accept that you are part of the community. You apparently don’t. So, then you should move either out or to other parts of “eretz isroel”. Just make sure that you will not be drafted into PA, Syrian or Jordanian armies.
You don’t need to judge T’s future policies by campaign. He already has a record. And so does, sort of, K.
T’s pattern is – as Gadol says above – transactional. It has both a positive and a negative sides. Positive – he is looking to resolve the issue, get a better bargain, including getting feedback from his advisers. Negative – his calculus might change. But I don’t think this is so different from others, he is just less polished, or cares less, about niceties.
K’s pattern is – to say anything. She accused Biden of not letting her (daughter of two academics) to get on a bus to school. Then, she becomes his VP and has no visible impact on his policies. Then, she does not notice that President has mental problems. She seems to have been on both sides of any issue, except abortion, thru her life. Based o just this one issue, one can presume that she is liberal at core.
So, is there a risk with T? Sure, more in Ukraine than in Israel. Some suggest that he was listening to advisers more earlier but may be more self-assured now. But there is an upside also. With K, there is only downside.
pekak, we are supposed to go to Beis Din when dealing with each other. Put aside for now hard cases involving medical, but a simple damage case. If my bull gores your bull or if my car bumps up your car – wouldn’t B’D be the place to resolve it? Possibly, B’D will tell you to go to the insurance company, or even give a general psak to do that. Again, I understand there are different views, I am asking how people do it in practice. Anyone in town here? A lot of people surely sound like they are!
Some Jew I don’t know says that lost children are not something to focus on, klal yisroel needs to move on and have a peaceful shabbos or two.
Ozempic, I think, reduces appetite, so surely restaurants will not be promoting them!
Also, if someone is learning Torah 24/7 surviving on “bread and water” based on a pill – is he a Tzaddik or a cheater?
yankel > RAMBAM versus Ptolemy, Einstein and Newton , has zero bearing on “interpreting gmara and rishonim
I understand what you are saying in terms of technique. As R Steinsaltz used to say – if you want to know what pipe was Abaye smoking (Rav was a smoker himself up to some point, I believe) – ask the archeologist, if you want to know what he is saying – ask Rabbis …
Still, in this case, I am addressing the substance of Rambam where he writes about science. He himself studied astronomy, etc both from ancients and from contemporaries (I think both in Spain and when he was on the run in Fes where there was the famous Fes madrasa that some call “first modern university” before English and French). So, you would need to know the subject to appreciate what Rambam is saying. Of course, you can pretend that Rambam of halakha is a different persona than Rambam of science.
yankel> But I do not consider “interpreting gmara and rishonim” as “esoteric”.
I mean on what topic you are interpreting them. People (and computers also) train well when they repeatedly do similar tasks and can check their performance with some ground truth. How do you know whether you are right on the topic of Moschiach? Yes, you may have minimal skills to learn rishonim on simple topics, but here we are dealing with a complicated question on which nor we, not rishonim, have any final answers (except history of previous miracles, of course). That is why I am suggesting first trying to crack a complicated sugya where we have some hard data – and sometimes have more data than rishonim and see if you can figure it out. And, if you think that astronomy is not shayach for you – Rambam took some time (years?) to work on this, you could too.
Also, I bli neder will try to read the arguments of posters in this thread if they post any objective measures of their learning (SAT, LSAT, GRE, IQ, chess rating). Without this, I am not even trying, because I don’t know where the poster is holding.
pekak > we accept that they will take care of things for us.
So, this is what is done “in town”. I presume even those here who are tzadikim gemurim and practice defensive and kosher driving, still heard about other people getting in trouble. So, do people rely on insurance or go to B’D? say, one person’s daas Torah is for insurance path, and another – for B’D – do we get a B’D to resolve this?
Also, in reality, many people often pay off the other side to avoid going thru insurance or sometimes do not have it – are these cases going thru B’D or people simple settle on their own?
catch 7:57 am> such as when my wife prepares and serves dinner, implying that the food is kosher), a similar question can be raised.
Hope you find a tirutz before the dinner time.
some > was that we are talking about a rasha who is no longer part of klal yisroel.
I missed that, and when I am re-reading this thread, I still do not see that. This started with Tzahal that has different types of Jews. If your statement of the doctors is limited to rashayim, presuming we agree on the definition, this is different. But your statement reads as unqualified applying to any doctor, except “frum” by your standard.
why don’t we say, as many other cases when we are inconvenienced – Hashem saves peshayim? If this works for smoking, it should work for eggs also. We ate eggs for centuries without any halachik problems.
yankel > Like a non frum doctor who happens to excel in his field, patients should be referred to him.
R Soloveichik writes that in Lita towns where non/anti-observant people were not tolerated, they would still have a non-observant doctor and pharmacist – because there were no others, and people needed them. He says that in his experience (1950s) it was better to talk to a non-Jewish doctor when there was some religious sensitivity (kashrus, fasts, family issues) than to a non-religious Jewish doctor. From that, he suggested (l’hathila) that YU medical school will be useful: non-religious Jews who would come there might not become religious, but at least they’ll come out with appreciation of the views that religious Jews hold.
Everyone here has an opinion on quite esoteric matters, interpreting Gemoras and rishonim … could you first try yourself on some easier issues that can be verified “in this world” to see if you are qualified? Take, for example, Rambam’s calculations of rosh hodesh, compare it with Ptolemy’s and other ancients, find where there were some possible computational errors and how Rambam deals with them. After that, reconcile it with Newtonian and Einsteinian physics. After you complete this relatively simple exercise, let us know your theories about Moschiach.
Lay off the mods, they are doing a hard job. And you don’t want to this be your last approved post either!
Also, some mod decisions may be delayed while the mods are consulting Alter Rebbe to clarify unclear passages in Tanya.
>> Moshe gave hakaras hatov to inanimate objects, yet you are incapable of thanking a Jews who put themselves into danger to protect you!?
> I am capable, but the Torah forbids it.Maybe you can give your sources and then we can discuss them? You seem to be presuming that a random doctor is a rasha. Why would yo say that? He is not a potential magician of “medicine” of 2000 years ago – he spent years in medical school and residence and working long hours to keep you healthy.
I am thinking you re going to Beis Din that might suggest filing the claim. But in town people should tell us how they do it.
> If speaking to a goyishe doctor, you can say “doctor, you saved my life!”. But, you can’t tell your kids that evening “that doctor saved my life!”
yes, has veshalom kids develop too much derech eretz – they’ll have hard time blending in school.
I think hashgaha on beitzim is definitely in order right now, I heard three are counterfeit ones coming from lebanon.
As akuperma says, this is not fighting terrorists, but a regular army that happened not to follow geneva conventions. As in any war, there is no one operation that wins the war. So, complaining that it was not decisive is silly. As to timing and, seemingly, limited follow-up, there are reports that the capability was at risk to be discovered, so it had to be used now. Again, give decision makers some benefit of the doubt, they have impoerfect info, but better than us.
Chabad House at American University in Beirut is offering free mezuzah battery checks to Hezb Allah members.
Page 770-770-770 to make a reservation today.interesting to see how far bias can take people. NYT has a mushy article about neis of exploding beepers – they lead with innocent victims, barely explain what blew up. As a result, casual readers who do not keep in mind that Hezbolla is bombing Israel for a year and that only Hezbollah members were issued the beepers start remarking that this is an act of terrorism; how would they know that only terrorists have beepers; etc, etc. Other readers are patiently explaining the facts to them. I wonder whether the original posters change their mind, I did not see any retractions so far. Most interesting are posters who take it to the extreme – acknowledge Israeli success but use it to double down: so if they are so powerful, it means that they allowed oct 7 on purpose to have a reason to kill people … this is how far one can get with a mindset of keeping your position despite the facts.
Current weapon sharing system in democratic countries has a flaw: on one hand, cooperation is working out great, different countries/companies specialize in certain things and then exchange. The power of that was already recognized by Adam Smith and David Ricardo, BUT then any participant can veto the use of their stuff in a specific conflict for various political reasons. If Hungary provides coffee cups for F-35 pilots – they won’t be able to fly against Russia now? This got to be written in the contracts that the users can use on their own.
What I am saying that many (surviving) Ukrainians at the time were more interested in being in Poland than in USSR that just murdered millions of them (and Jews and Russians and others). And Poles (including Jews in Poland) were very self-confident that their newly reconstructed country will be able to defend themselves. Nazis and Commies partitioned Eastern Europe according to the secret agreement that they had and then had an infamous joint victory parade in Lviv. If your textbook was published in last 20 years, it should have that information. In fact, Soviets cheated Nazis a little, taking over more territory than they agreed to.
It will be easier to recognize Hezb commanders in the street, as they’ll be wearing sunglasses and gloves.
Fan, as we see, it is always possible for a smart person to find a good excuse to not be grateful. I wonder (/s) whether you’ll reconsider your view when you find out that someone fed you bad data: 100+ soldiers were not injured, most soldiers flew out based on advance warning, 50 people had a headache.
Somehow, this kochi discussion comes up every time Israeli army does something. When your kid gets a good grade in school, do you also remind the kid that he is not getting any cookies so that he does not develop a kochi attitude?
One pattern is that this issue is raised by people who themselves are not at risk of being accused of achieving something themselves. For example, Pres. Obama had a similar frum attitude when he told Gov Romney that Romney “did not build his businesses”.
I am not reading this thread inside as I don’t think there is a way to convince either side, but this was not clear to me:
> Resh Lakish argues with Rava, and Rav Yochanan certainly does
Maybe, this imples that Resh Lakish is as alive as Yaakov Avinu?
I absolutely have. I actually wrote here before about Biden claiming (justifiably) that he is different from Obama’s people – the latter seeing Israel through progressive lenses as “occupier”, while Biden has experiences of Yom Kippur War and understands Israeli vulnerability and a need to act.
But note, please – when Biden does act, whether fully or partially or after a long delay, he is following the centrist position – as most in politics support Israeli self-defense, defense against Russia, border control, etc. T’s action above, and some others, were unusual, and maybe even risky, acts against the opinion of establishment. This only compares with Reagan’s “tear down this wall” speech – wherer these words were crossed out twice by speech editors, but he used them anyway.
> after all, he is a very old man,
Bunch of dems are parroting this. Hutzpah, of course. This is after trying to run an older candidate and repeating that age does not matter – and not even bothering to explain their leaders conspired to hide JB’s mental conditions for a year or more. Now, I understand why the TV heads are saying that – they hope to affect 2% of voters who can’t make a decision – a very flaky group. Why someone will post this in a place populated by (mostly) straight-thinking Yidden, I think you are wasting your keystrokes.
so what is happening in practice? did you not ever have a fender bender in Monsey?
If you have a beis din, you don’t even need to touch a machlokes, let beis din to deal with that.mdd, surely most people there were interested to be under communists rather than in democratic Poland, especially during the induced hunger …
Poles successfully defended against USSR invasion in 1920 and, unfortunately, took it as a sign that their army is strong enough to defend against aggressors, not taking into account technological developments.
qwerty > It’s also Halacha that one doesn’t learn Kabbalah until he’s forty years old and has mastered Nigleh.
Yes, I was eager to hit forty and then … I discovered that there is so much left in Nigleh, I’ll let those who don’t understand Nigleh spend their time on Kabbalah … If you saw my posts defending Chabad actions, they relate to their practical work. What kabbalistic paths it took them to care about so many lost neshomos is between them and their rebbes.
JB reluctantly adopted some of the DJT policies – vaccines, Chinese sanctions, opposition to Nordstream, closing the border … if Ms. Harris-Emhoff signs a pledge to continue and adopt other common sense policies, then DJT does not need to run. Maybe Ms. President should also appoint DGT Chief of Staff so that he can help select people with business and military experience. She can continue running around the country generating spontaneous joy.
> Whoopee doo.
Yechiell, thanks for actually answering this claim. Usually, most anti-Ts here just avoid mentioning T’s actions. I presume you will have a similar, ungrateful, response to other T’s achievements – Abrahamic accords, recognition of Golan, killing Iranian top general – so I am not even asking.
mdd, the fact that Poles surrendered because they were surrounded, does not mean they were not occupied and that they were not prosecuted. Soviets sent many Poles and Jews into gulag either based on their social status or based on their refusal to accept soviet citizenship.
what makes you think that Biden is a better strategist than Bibi? Biden has a history of having bad views as senator and VP plus several losses as a President. None of Biden’s advisers are known for strategic victories either. Bibi has years of dealing all kind of issues and is, over the years, seen as a responsible leader by majority of Israelis. I am not trying to convince you to respect Bibi, but I hope that you can acknowledge that Biden not giving Bibi what the latter wants to use is more likely to be bad for Israel, rather than good.
Arso > not all of Chazal said not to teach Torah to women, but that is the halocho as paskened both by the Rambam and Shulchan Aruch.
Right, I was just discussing gemorah. There are enough postings on YWN about this issue in general. The reason I am mentioning gemorah specifically – it reviews foundational issues and presents multiple views that are applicable. As, for example, Maharal discusses – Bavli gives us a method to apply Toah to different times and situations (we discussed this also here). Later poskim, however authoritative, may not always present all views that are not applicable to other times and cultures. As this is obviously an issue that depends on the society, then you need to start with analyzing gemora, not just look up Sh’A. I am not trying to argue for one conclusion or another. Maybe you think B’Y is exposing girls to too many chazal or maybe you think women should be paskening for other women, in any case you need to start your analysis from the Gemorah.
anyway, I am just trying to divert this insane topic to some saner ideas.
philosopher > Safaria is not my endorsement of them. I have read somewhere that they mistranslated a word with a woke translation.
You need to look at where translation comes from. Some of the meforshim, I think, might be amateur translations by volunteers. Gemora text itself is Steinsaltz translation.
> , is a known halachic shaila.
exactly, in this case, I did not want to, but Rav said I probably should due to total lack of awareness from the offender (before and after causing the accident). So, please describe how this happens under the Batei dinim.
fan > Bombs are expensive and theres only a limited amount
right, but you somehow presume that Tzahal is not aware of that and does not know how to allocate them between the missions.
current administration can’t even prevent repeated attacks on a candidate ..
CTL > Wrong again! The USSR invaded Poland in September 1939 joining on the side of the Nazis
Indeed, the commie history counts USSR’s entry into WW2 as 1941, ignoring their occupation of Poland and attempted occupation of Finland in 1939, and of Baltic countries in 1940, I may be missing some, like Bessarabia. Visiting Uman even before 1939 probably was not well advised, unless you were a pro-commie world-famous writer or journo, ready to tell the world how great USSR is.
On a more somber note, tefilos in Uman somehow were not helpful throughout 20th century – from WW1 to anarchists to Whites to Reds to Holodomor to WW2 … They started helping in 1990s but the region is back downhills…