Always_Ask_Questions

Married women _are_ required to work even if they have enough servants. There are a lot of jobs that are problematic, and some – like Hollywood – might be more problematic for women while still not recommended for men. At the same time, a lot of jobs that are not challenging spirituality much, I think – from WFH software engineer to a neurosurgeon.

Historically, “jobs” often required either muscle strength or travel in dangerous environment, so those were not for women. At the same time, women with property (usually, inherited or gifted by the father) were able to do business – if they chose so, or let their husband to manage it.

Also, some say, that sometimes there is more danger in “heimishe businesses”. An observant person is on guard from non-kosher world, but in the environment where everyone is “kosher”, people can become more relaxed over time.

I agree with Rocky. This might be a judgement call depending on the people the Rav is dealing with – where they hold, does he have a long-term relationship with them, will they be unhappy not getting brocha, does he have a chance to affect this person and the whole community, will they just go to a different Rav and bother him … So, you can’t necessarily question different Rabonim coming to different conclusions, but you can try to understand their shitot if they ever commented about it.

In most countries, now and especially in earlier times, religions had to be officially recognized.

AAQ “OUR TIMES SEEMS TO BE THE FIRST IN HISTORY WHERE [SOME] JEWS ARE CLAIMING THAT THEIR MESORAH IS TO BE WILLFULLY IGNORANT.”

Avram> This is motzi shem ra.

To the opposite, I am defending the honors of mine (and maybe others’) ancestors who were not ignorant and insist that even now this is not true despite some here making a virtue out of ignorance.

Take a longer view – 250 years ago, population of Europe was way larger than USA. Then, for some reason, they/we all started moving here. So, something is done right in the American system in general. When comparing expenditures, you may want to

(1) review outcomes by different social/ethnic groups – USA is full of newcomers and groups of problematic population. Try comparing a person with origins in say UK or France n both countries

(2) make sure you compare all expenditures in European countries – cost of government policies gets diffused in many areas. Look for example at where medical research is being done.

> Careers for women often ruin their ruchnius.

and same for men, of course. We need to separate between two issues related to “career”:

1) desire to advance at a job at the expense of anything else. Not healthy in many cases, (unless you are a Rav, a doctor, a soldier, a firefighter, or anyone else who benefits people …)

2) ability to work in an easier environment, using professional skills.

People often confuse the two. Yes, having professional skills creates a danger of becoming a workaholic, but so does a job of selling phones on amazon. Professional job, when taken in right dosage, satisfies gemora’s and, I think, also Rambam’s, suggestion to have a clean easy job that does not require exhaustion or fear of hunger or using charity.

> In the pre-Holocaust era in Europe secular studies was by far the exception by Chareidim,

at earlier times, most nations did not have a lot of studies – and majority of population did not need them, given that most of them were farming and later working at factories. Jews were generally more educated than surrounding population. Our times seems to be the first in history where [some] Jews are claiming that their mesorah is to be willfully ignorant. Not everyone received this mesorah, and I hope this could be respected.

akuperma, thanks for a good description. I would take an issue equating anyone charedi with clergy in other countries. Clergy is a concept of established religious activities approved by the government. It does not mean anyone who declares himself occupied by religious studies can qualify.

Avira, I think I was recalling ספר תולדות ישו, and wiki says it is indeed 10th century at least, maybe 6th to 9th, and possibly a combination of earlier sources. Author unknown, or mahybe a combination of multiple sources,

Marxist, my claim stems from the fact that his later criticism of capitalism is a carbon copy of his criticism of Jewish business influence on the world. Your further quotes from someone who actually was in charge of killing people shows that you see this a purely theoretical debate of ideas. Maybe your family came to US on Mayflower and nobody was ever touched by the Marxist murderers in Europe.

Avira, I presumed that the most jarring moment is transition from chol to shabbos. Maybe the person does not know how to detach himself or afraid to focus on himself (especially, these days when people can use tech to always be “busy”).

But if someone has panic attack later on shabbos, I would examine what is in the cholent and whether it is heated sufficiently.

Ben T, you won’t convince people with obscure references. You have higher chance if people see how you behave and learn according to your Rebbe’s teaching. Then, all Yiddishe mamas in the street will be pointing to their children – do you want to be an Erliche Yid and a Talmid Chacham like that chosid? Then, everyone will eventually become a follower of your Rebbe and you can vote for a Moschiach of your choice. Hatzlaha. Start with helping the old lady cross the street and open a sefer.

Is there a metric that tracks how many board members re solid professionals v. politicians and social warriors? is it predictive of anything?

As we discussed here earlier, Rav Moshe did not suggest college for general public because it was possible to have a median American lifestyle with a job without it. He clearly allowed some students to be on college track, less the parents take the kids out of yeshiva, as ujm mentions. Maybe other motivations also – otherwise, why his own daughter went to college. As median American job now does require a college degree (possibly way inferior and less demanding in study but more in money than during R Moshe’s times), what would R Moshe pasken now? Also, what was R Moshe’s (and R Aharon’s) position on using non-Jewish charity – welfare/disability/single-parent benefits/etc, esp when it is public knowledge?

Appropriately, the ultimate PI day was shabbos (if you were in one of the country that joined Gregorian calendar 10 years before in 1582).

There was always a difference between how rich and poor were treated, but recent generations acquired unprecedented knowledge that allows channeling resources into improving human condition, including health.

Maybe we did not fully absorbed this into our world view. If we do value human life, maybe it is worth spending even more than we spend now in supporting medical treatments and public health instead of buying faster cars, larger homes, and fancy vacations. So, maybe health spending should be 50-70% of the GDP instead of mere 15%?

Finally, most people here agreed on something. Interesting to see how alternative reality can be perceived based on some information that the posters had and that is probably impossible to either verify or disproof. I presume many other nations, including anti-semites, get their information in a similar way.

pls remember for an every confused moschihist, there is another one who is walking around for the lost Jews based on the teachings and organizations formed by the same Rebbe. Most of other observant Jews live comfortable lives in their shuls disregarding maybe 4 mln of Yidden who are in the process of being totally lost, maybe outsourcing the effort to “kiruv” organizations. _If_ the L Rebbe is on the short list for M, then it would be for this effort, not for the pilpul of differences between Paul and Peter.

Marxist > I don’t deny the anti-Semitic aspect to some of Marx’s thought.

TheFakeMaven answered already. I just would like to add that this _early_ work shows where his hate of capitalism came – from hating Jewish influence on the world in the form of our business activities, and his interest in “emancipation” included the desire to stop us being successful business people. I may not convince you, but for others – interesting to see that such a plague on the world started as a narrow hate of Jewish practices and then expanded to all other businesses.

CEO payments are not _the_ problem. US companies are large, it is a bog company. Most companies in fully private businesses without government payments choose to pay CEO high salaries so that there is a person in charge who spends 24/7 trying to make the company successful.

It is an empirical question which system is better. As mentioned, do we think that public schools are run better than private/charter/etc? Ask people on medicaid and medicare – are these systems better than private insurances (other than possible subsidies).

a double miracle, agree with a marxist and a krugman. Possibly the same person.

> there is a direct correlation between effort and success.

It says in Gemora Megila that this is only true in Torah learning. In parnosa, one needs both an effort and some mazal.

Interesting pilpul, I wish I could find time & energy to go through that.
In my humble opinion, if you need pages and pages to show how your rebbe differs from a world-famous faker, you already lost your readers and doing disservice to your rebbe.

So, the cult personae are not responsible for the followers?

Pirkei Avos mentions differences between students of Avraham and Bilaam, from which you learn that you can see whether the teacher was kosher by the students. And Marx was no tzadik to begin with. He, apparently, came to his hate of business owners via hate of Jews, whom he considered guilty of propagating business values. He argued with some reverend suggesting that instead of emancipating Jews, we should emancipate world from the Jews.

> Mrs. Seminary girl

not to detract from a good question, but her name is really Ms. Oxymoron.