Always_Ask_Questions

CS, I understand Alter Rebbe’s argument for neshoma v. guf and it is very attractive, and it was based on recent history of assimilation in Western Europe. Still, it is very unattractive in a long run – agreeing and supporting a despotic regime (it appears that Chabad Chassidim provided direct intelligence support to Czar’s army, not just a general endorsement). I am not aware of any Western European Rabbonim taking their community and leading them away from spiritual mitzraim of Western Europe into safety of Russian empire. Notice that even in later years, when many European rabbonim were against moving to Goldene Medina or EY, there was no widespread movement saving Jews from evil America into safe Russia. (not counting yeshiva students going temporarily to learn in Mir or Slabodka, like R Avigdor Miller, and then returning back unless stopped by a world war).

> Daycare providers are actually trained in this, and they play with the kids for a good part of the day.

Exactly. Parents are not trained. Give your kids to daycare/kindergarten/school/yeshiva/seminary/shadchan professionals and they’ll perform the mitzva of shinantem levanecha on your behalf with all chumros.

I would think that this amazing generation – dor hakollel – would be uniquely qualified to lead their own children to spiritual heights.

CS, what happened (and continue happening) in and around Russia is following historically from that confrontation between Napoleon and Russian Czar. From purely historical view, one might say that the role of some small Jewish group in White Russia did not matter. From spiritual POV, this could look different. As far as I know, other chassidim and Chaim Volozhiner supported Napoleon and maybe Polish hopes for independence, while Alter Rebbe supported the Czar. There are a lot of things to say for his position – it was likely that Napoleon will fail (and possible Chaim Volozhiner understood that also), so keeping good relations was important. Furthermore, Lubavich/Lyadi was located further into Russian empire than others. Still, Alter Rebbe was a minority who thought that keeping modernity away is more important than keeping slavery away.

n0 > And most of the world’s elite that went through college, have zero kosher dollars.
They went to college to become more successful criminals.

This is a serious question as the father’s mitzva of giving a profession is exactly not to make kidd into listim. I feel opposite – that people who lack access to easy/clean professions and deal in business transactions, hustling, selling iphones online .. an educated person may indeed have capability to cheat, but a poor person might feel more need & pressure.

Specifically to Jews who have moral background, my personal observation is that a professional Yid is more reliable than an average professional (maybe because he is aware he is being watched), while an Yid hustling something is not always makes same impression,

N0 > You create your own influences.

I agree with Avira here. The prisoner can not take himself out of the prison, or maybe even understand what he is up to, especially a young person coming from a sheltered environment. Previous century is a testament to that. For example, an American minhag of sending 18 y.o. to another side of the country, or even world, to learn wisdom from a random professor or a coed.

Mod > disclaimer: we don’t recommend writing your own heterim

sure. A specific psak I got from a hashuve rov I follow for decades already (and mentioned here before) that a psak on taking classes like “comparative religion” depends on the person’s emotional state and academic direction – some osur, some mutar and even recommended. And he paskened accordingly to the students he knew. I did not bother bringing each of our kids to the Rov, as he does not know them well, and I would be imposing on him a free psychological evaluation of each of them. So, I relied on the guidelines he gave. So far, everyone found these classes stimulating intellectually and no side effects observed. Again, done under direct Dr’s supervision.

these were your words and it was on this that the disclaimer was made. ‘Truly, the class above could have been avoided, but I thought this kid can benefit (with close supervision). ‘

I agree with Avira about intentional exposure:
there is a difference between learning for parnosa and having accidental exposure that needs to be minimized and balanced; and intentionally getting into humanities and sitting with those people. The latter probably falls under R Soloveichik’s psak not to deal with Christians in theology, only in practical matters. So, same with Liberal religion.

4E > Perhaps you are unaware what’s covered these days

Funny, as I am sitting discussing a kid’s college homework on Stephen Gould’s view of separation between science and religion. We are discussing what Rabbi Sacks writes about the subject.

I am not disagreeing with you in general, though. You got to choose right majors hat focuses on tech and science, make sure kid has right environment – local, online, kehillah and intellectual support to deal with the issues as discussed above. Truly, the class above could have been avoided, but I thought this kid can benefit (with close supervision). You can use CLEPs, APs, transfers from simpler colleges to avoid possible problems. Go to Jewish colleges …. These are important details to consider, my point for now is that it is doable if done carefully.

disclaimer: we don’t recommend writing your own heterim

To be clear, my question is not about R Belsky being against college, I get that – but about lack of change over time. We discussed before R Moshe’s psak and his was clearly based on the fact that in his time, a median person did not go to college. And, as a bonus point to support that such osak is individual, it did not seem to be shayach to R’ Moshe’s daughter and S-I-L.

n0,
I think you mean that when 50% of population goes to college, it is not the same as when 5% went. I totally agree – and that includes both level (most college classes are remedial middle school), but also in the effect on the students: most college professors do not aim to create anti-religious free-thinkers, they’d be happy that students can assimilate that correlation is not causation. Maybe, we should discuss “professional ed” from ivy-league. Maybe, just ask your Rav specific questions: is there a problem taking subway to the city, listening about Newton laws for 4 hours and then taking subway back, and then becoming eligible to have a well-paying job for life?

Which step here leads to gehenom, other than for those who have a eshes chayil who is ready to support him. Although, I do not think it is kosher to obligate the wife for this support in the future, at least according to R Avigdor Miller who says kollel should be forever but ends when the wife says so. And even in this case, why shouldn’t the wife get a reasonable profession?

Even literally – RYBZ risked his neshomo and met Vespasian, Alter Rebbe was niftar while fleeing from Napoleon.

Agree that the same applies to text & online discussions.

I tried to teach my kids that when there is a complication in a discussion, it is better to pick up the phone and talk it over to smooth differences, but they retorted that calling someone when text is expected is simply rude in their world – you are imposing your timeline on the other person, rather than letting him respond when he feels like that. By extension, goes to many other interactions in business world, where people make decisions about admissions/shidduchim/war targets based on what it currently says on their screen.

In all of the interactions, just try imagining the human being at the other side of the car window/internet connection/gun barrel

Reportedly, a chusid was explaining to the Gerer Rebbe that he davens in a certain shul for baalei teshuva, although he is not one of them … Rebbe gib him a luk and asked “Why not?”.

So, surely, a (good) chabad shaliach can find potential baalei teshuva even in Toms River .. maybe there are people who were turned off by one derech, but will feel better in another.

Someday, so alter-Yeshuvnikim could move now too, Medinah is not taking anyone hostage, by means other than family benefits.

And the one million yidden – those who were in America would be goyim by now, in Ukraine – would be under bombs by now, in Russia – throwing bombs by now, in Iran – under aytallohs, in Syria – killed and children raised in ISIS schools …

I don’t think Israel significantly changed anyone to the worse. Europeans socialsts and Bundists were such before Maarach, Sephardim mostly stayed “masorti” as they were before .. maybe some Teimanim were negatively impacted

Ben, excellent idea. So, instead of one father learning near a crib, not hearing the baby cry (as in Alter Rebbe’s son’s story), you can have a baby room at a kollel, so everyone could learn b’chevrusa loudly without fear of waking up the babies, and one designated father could sit near 10 babies, not hearing them all cry simultaneously.

n0 > words in the parenthesis were written with you in mind!

Thanks for having me mind. I apologize I missed that. But as long as my objections bother you enough to offer a pre-buttal, mission accomplished. I am not looking to convince people, just to consider things.

Yserbius123, a good point, maybe start at the Gemora about it and learn from there?

someday > the local Arabs and Jews got along very well.

We have the benefit of hindsight. How well would yushuv survive under Hafetz Assad, some ayatollah, or ISIS? Most of non-Muslim minorities in the middle east are killed out or emigrate.

Avira > choose to listen to people who are more religious, because even if they’re biased, they’re airing on the right side

While I understand the feeling, this is circular thinking. Torah tells us not to turn either right or left from it.

For example, why did R Soloveichik study philosophy? I don’t think he left a big imprint on millions of followers of Herman Cohen. Presumably, he felt that this study will enhance his Torah. I am not saying that anyone who learns secular studies is a better T’Ch, but at least in this case, this is good Torah. You showed respect to him here, but I am not sure whether you learned any of his Torah. I would be interested to hear your opinion on a direct comparison between different briskers.

Donald is a non-drinker, who made this decision by observing a tragedy in the family and, apparently, holds by this decision since. At least, none of the special prosecutors caught him with a beer. You can use this amazing example of middos. And also, value of learning – easier not to start drinking or stop early than later count days after attending AA.

He also has a big family, counting both children and wives, and his grandkids go to a Jewish school.

I looked at mitzvos mentioned in Shema, and this is strange: nobody relies on OOT Rav putting tefilin instead of him, or a mezuza or wearing tzitzis, but somehow “shinantem levanecha” davka has to be outsourced to a local school at least, but better to a far away towm – until the kid is able to fly onhis own and go to another country.

More seriously, when Bava Basra goes through educational option: fathers teaching is preferred, but did not work consistently. Sending to Yerushalaim (i.e. best, most kodesh and inspiring places) also did not work for many. OOT yeshivas is 3rd option – but teens did not listen to the teachers. Last and accepted option was to teach small kids locally.

Furthermore, there were always differences in styles: In EY, kids would learn first (locally) and then marry (so not to be distracted). In Bavel, kids would marry first and then go OOT (not to be distracted) to learn.

I agree w/ Avira, this seems to be more than davening late, more not wanting to spend time on the sad issues and get to the tish faster. You can see this from various communities coming up with various ways to avoid T. Now, in normal circumstances, who would come out and change a thing like that. But as chassiddim were changing a lot of things anyway, T was diminished along the way.

Avira > poster only made a few glaring errors; his post wasn’t full of misspellings and non existent words, because that would have made the joke too obvious

This is in the eye of the beholder. My first reaction was: this is funny, but overdoing it a little…

> The Torah only crowd has been largely silent,

Shtika k’domya maybe? Or, probably, most did not see it much different from what they usually read in letters from the schools?

a story – not 100% related, I once used a early prototype for text-to-speech software to call my Teacher in Lakewood on Purim. The voice was quite robotic, but people did not know yet that such thing exists. Rebetzin picked up the phone. My robot was able to maintain a conversation for a couple of minutes. When I got bored of that, I explained the trick to her and asked how she did not find this person strange. She said “we have all kind of people calling any day of the year, I stopped wondering”.

Reading WSJ articles on related topics and, especially, comments to these articles, might be useful to some. It is usually clear how to separate posts by seasoned professionals from ignorami. Anyone who reads this forum could do that.

maybe babysitter crisis is co-mingled with the shidduch crisis? With such tremendous growth, B’H. Bli ayn hara, there are less of 12 yo babysitters than of 1 year babies, so babysitters charge more.

And, there are less of 20 yo morahs (mothers of those babies), so they can charge more for teaching 12 yos who babysit 1 yos, and thus can afford paying more to babysitters.

And there are less of 40 yo parents of 12 yo and they are all, B’H, learnt well not to use pieces of aaaron Kodesh to sweep the floor, so they can’t afford to pay the 20 yo morahs who teach 12 yos who babysit 1 yos, and that is where the crisis meets Reb Ponzi C. Gadya.