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How about contacting an Yid dressed differently from oneself and saying something nice to him
Some people in Israel reported being busy making green tzitzis to match IDF uniform that were reportedly requested by multiple soldiers (who presumably did not wear them previously).
Menachem,
are you also as strict regarding movement members who sign another “infamous nigunim” of maschihistim or you are more understanding about that?I don’t think kutim mamash worshipped the mountain, it s where their temple was. This would not be AZ, but their other beliefs at different times might have been. As we see even from gemora, we classify them according to the facts of the day. Anyway, I agree here that participants needed halachik guidance to deal with this, not sure whether they had it on hand. The response you heard could have been coming from the non-religious participants
Weird, what did pope do for jews lately!?
My voice, I think you misunderstood, maybe because you are focused on the rally and not the reason behind it. When whole am Israel is in pain, it is double painful to see a group that doesn’t join. If you hold that you have access to the only correct hashkofa, then you should be the first to organize the way you think is correct and then urge others to join. And don’t tell me you are doing learning instead. Whn yeshivos need government funding, they go to politicians, not to Yom iyun as far as I know. Chofetz Chaim met with polish politicians and many gedolim went to Petersburg on 19th century
I don’t think kutim were suspected of shituf, rather of straight Avoda Zora. You may get such impression because kutim may be used as euphemism for christians
Avira, yes, OC 215 seems to have Rema saying the opposite, and more of a discussion later on. Also, an argument whnether kuti here is a substitute for a non-Jew or a min in general. Sh’A harav has a discussion of a min, probably a code word for a christian. Bottom line, attendees of such rallies should have halachik guidance in advance on when and how to respond. In my humble experience dealing with friendly and helpful people from other religions, they do not engage in sneaking their brochos into conversation. Those who do are obnoxious l’hathila.
But all Sh’A discussions are about literally blessings. What about answering amen or other types of agreement with reasonable statement (I presume that is what it was as you are not taking an issue with his statement).
Someone comes to you and says “Am Yisroel Hai”, can you answer Amen? Yes? Sure? Does amen carry any implication of religious unity between parties? If yes, is it because we give significance in this word, or because preachers use this language?
As to a bigger issue – I understand R Soloveichik paskened that cooperation on religious issues is osur, but ok and desired on social issues. It appears from the above that more guidance is required when actually implemnting such policy. Can someone ask these questions from the poskim that supported the rally?
common, I am not sure why you are pursuing me repeatedly. I’m interested in your advice. My DT told me 30 years that there is no DT in gemora. And confirmed last week when I quoted this discussion to him. What do I do within the DT methodology? This is a human version of the question “can the Omnipotent create a stone that he cannot move”.
To be pedantic, OP didn’t specify yeshiva’s name. He probably meant bmg given signatures on the letter edited, for your benefit.
Hope he was not the driver.
mod > about frivolous comments about great people
My run of being unmodded ended so soon after the rosh hodesh! I absolutely meant the esteemed posters who insist that a letter signed by hamesha rabonim is halocha l’Moshe misinai, not the rabbonim who have the right, and even obligation, to make their opinion known to their followers.
As to the posters, they testified that they had great people sleeping in their car, but does it make them also a great people?! Anyway, it is an anonymous eid ehad testifying about themselves.
Avira > “gave an amen” to an evangelical pastor
interesting, you join ” ‘Jews’ for ‘Peace’ ” in this attitude.
I recall R Soloveichik paskened that we should avoid any “ecumenical” discussions with other religions – even when Vatican was “doing teshuva” and fixing their attitudes towards Jews. Good that they do it – but we don’t have to be there and be grateful for them to doing the right thing. At the same time, it is OK to join them to resolve world social and political problems, not necessarily Jewish. Kal vahomer, when it is in defense of Jews. So, bringing an influential speaker with tens of millions followers was certainly a win, despite liberal and purist annoyance.
I did not hear what exactly he wanted to be omeined to. I think halacha is that we don’t answer a partial brocha from a non-Jew as we do not know who and for what he is thanking. It seems to follow that you do answer if the bracha is appropriate. What did he actually say?
user > you think that you and your piers make up “klal Yisrael”
I think this summarizes well why most of us here are responding to this. At the moment when everyone is striving for unity, it is very annoying to see people with a pretense of being “the klal” and exclude everyone else.
> None of the Gedolim on the Moetzes
I referred to the official moetses statement that was discussed here that admitted a need to have many people at the rally. I am not even mentioning all Rabonim in different cities, including mine, that led the delegations.
PS it is indeed tricky to be at an event where you show unity with other people and people from other religions. So, if some of the “talmidei chachamim” “yodiim hilchos avoda zara” were there, they could have advised otheryidden when and when to to answer “amen”. When you were grasping your head in pain near your laptop, nobody noticed.
so, those (8 or all 13) moetses members who said that rally will be useful are not gedolim?
Oh, so it is 8 to 5 in Moetses? This explains the “pareve” “joint statement”. Not sure then why minority issued a separate opinion right before the event. Were they pressured by their followers after the compromise? Maybe, majority can now take back the compromise statement and tell us what they really think?
There is a singer in a black kippah singing shir hamaalot, are you guys happy now
Those T’Ch who signed the Tuesday morning call are – Lakewood, Mir and a 92-student school from Brooklyn. Do we presume that the rest are for, or at least OK, with the rally given that Moetzes as an oganization were ok with it?
you can rest your case because ywn front page seemingly closed that article for comments and deleted the ones that were there.
So, maybe you can help me clarify:
1) how many members are in moetzes?2) as this was posted this morning when buses were on the way – did anyone see buses with lakewood registration turning around after receiving a lakewood alert?
3) can moetzes organize their own demonstration with 100,000 people in DC – let’s have a siyum of half-shas?
common, I respectfully produce arguments that would work according to your shita. I also added arguments from sevorah. As I generally follow beis Hille, I put your position first and mine second.
> The march on Washington during WW II was by Rabbis and was for a very different purpose. This rally is sponsored by secular organizations
Exactly, during WW2, those non-observant Jews were afraid to show up and even counseled FDR to disregard the march. Can you imagine how those Rabonim felt being abandoned by fellow Jews in trying to save Jewish lives. Now, those other Jews finally showed up and we are now nitpicking on the speaker lineup.
speakers include top house and senate leaders, as well as president of Israel. this is the goal – affect American politicians.
Maybe if you put a Rav, then you need to put someone reform, then noone O will come?To the question why the rally is needed
First, see the announcement from the collective daas Torah: they say it is beneficial. To the point: public opinion is one if the fronts of this war, not different from tunnels or sea or cyber. Public opinion in the west and in Arab countries will determine how much pressure will be on tzahal to avoid certain actions; whether other groups or countries will join. Etc. And each one battle may not be decisive but they are part of the whole.In regards to women, we probably can’t demand of them to go, but should accommodate them if they come. Same as the husband I obligated to support the wife financially in return for her wages, but she can reject the offer and work and keep her wages. Same with learning, nobody kicked out Beruriah from a class.
ProBiden articles before 2020 election addressed unease of an Obama vp: the claim was that Biden was the mature member of the team. While others viewed Israel as the occupier, Biden allegedly remembered 1973 and understood that Israel feels vulnerable.
Maybe oil is where consumers can affect world politics. You can work all sides of it: reduce consumption- buy unfortunately Chinese solar panels or heat pumps that might be Japanese. Also, increase US production by voting R or pressing your reps, buying stock in oil and gas companies, especially lng exporters.
Organize anti government protests in Venezuela or Nigeria or any other corrupt oil producer.Don’t worry. People are either not bragging about their kabolos not to lose zechyuos, or took a kabola not to post, or are on the bus to DC with a bad connection
It is just 3 hours frm Lakewood to DC or maybe 2 with a typical driver
Learnt, indeed. Just see how middle east treats other minorities: nothing, yazidis, kurds,. Sunnis v shias …iraq/ Iran war, syria…
.. I don’t think this is all zionist fault. So, without zionists, Sephardim would have gotten similar treatment by now.Mod, mate, it entails me not posting for the next 6 hours until rosh hodesh Sydney time. Cheers.
If mods would be willing to share with me rejected posts (under an NDA), I can see if we can train an ai moderator for some obvious abuses.
Iran, Russia, China 🇨🇳 are hamas enablers. So, oil, Persian carpets, Russian vodka and antivirus software and everything Chinese are good candidates for boycott. Also, any company or college that cooperate with them.
To show chesed to the moderator, I’ll take upon myself , bli never, to write posts that do not require moderator to edit anything till the end of the month, or at least I’ll put controversial ideas in invisible ink, white on white, for example,
Hope you agree.
That would be super helpful, thanks. You do realize what it entails, tho, right?
So rabbonim who went to meet fdr, and he sneaked out, wasted their time from learning. Take your hevrusa and a sefer on the bus and learn at the rally. Maybe teach some of the other participants. Mitzvos related to eretz Israel.
> big rally for Soviet Jewry ended with Yeshiva bochurim & Bais Yaakov Maidlach mixed dancing
And it ended up with a million Yidden getting their freedom. Some gedolim didn’t approve these activities lehathila not because mixed dancing but because they were afraid of soviet response both towards the activists and increasing regressions inside ussr. At the same time, a friend of mine asked a Sheila in Baltimore whether open action is OK v. traditional shtadlanus and the answer was: we don’t have a preference for specific way of politics. If quiet ways worked in olden times, and demonstrations work in our times , we do what works.
What is the source for Yidden only sitting in beis midrash and davening. In 1943, there was a march of rabbis on Washington that lead to creation of war refugee board. The event was condemned by assimilated jews.
Chofetz Chaim talked to various Polish politicians. Tannaim went to Rome. Moshe rabbeinu went to Pharaoh. Even Yaakov did.
I am confused that people who usually follow aguda are now looking for tirutzim and yehidim who disagree. True aguda doesn’t call for everyone personally to go, just to increase numbers. So if you are not comfortable going, you can maybe sponsor free bus seats, encourage your students to go, substitute for a teacher or a doctor who are going, drive students to the bus meeting place…
Here is a quote from aguda, as quoted by Lakewood alerts:
we feel it is important, midarchei ha’shtadlonus, that there be a large turnout at this event. Accordingly, and in consultation with our rabbinic leadership, we are circulating to our friends and constituents information about the rally. More information will be available here in the coming days.I would not call this “pareve”. It may be cautious maybe because it is organized by a different organization and maybe disagreements within aguda, but it is an endorsement. They are careful not to call directly to attend, possibly not to put in awkward position those who don’t want to.
So, if you are looking for their guidance, it is there. But if you want to be meikel and follow your own daas, you can do that also.
During ww2 there was a March of rabbonim on Washington before Yom Kippur and more Americans americanized jews were uncomfortable with getting entangled. The more things changed, the more they are the same
akuperna, your dismissal of “dead rabbonim” seems insufficently supported: as you yourself show, Dems positions are relatively the same as they were in the 70s, just way further down the slope. Those crazy students of the 70s are now party elders. Also, quoting international positions seem not relevant to local elections in the garden state.
So, it seems that Lakewood Rabbonim disagree w/ R Miller ZTzvKL, in this case at least. Maybe the gashmiyus that is required to support ruchniyus in their community is seen as more important that society-wide considerations that R Miller often advocated. Who knows, if R Miller were in charge of thousands of families requiring state assitance, maybe he would also have disregarded higher considerations.
Practically speaking, if Dems will have a slim majority, and a group of conservative Dems band together, they can lead the party to a more balanced place.
Shlomo,
either you are seeing extra billions of muslims under your bed or you are not consider most of the Jews Jews … That’s OK. Many French college students think that there are more Jews in France than Muslims – so visible we are.> I never listened to Non-Jewish music, … They don’t take from Non-Jewish music, as far as I know.
Thank you for your honest opinion. The only reason I know this music is Jewish is because my children are listening to it. Heilike children can not be wrong.
akuperma > movements towards intermarriage and people going OTD in large numbers began about 250 years ago.
this is true for Western Europe and US (Mr. Harris). For most of Eastern Europe and Russian Empire (Reb Zelinsky), intermarriage started in 1920s. Before that, Jews lived behind the “pale” and even those who were professionals and allowed to live in big towns, still married Jews. Even in Germany late 19th century, Jews that baptized would typically marry people with similar yichus.
kanoy > Biden has taken a strong stand in support of Israel
That is true. Still, he has an unfortunate record so far of following some complicated theories that are not supported by facts, trying to balance a fight of evil with liberal fantasies, leading to ineffective policies. Afghanistan .. slow flow of weapons to Ukraine .. are there indeed any military/foreign policy successes by Obana/Biden people? Reset w/ Russia. Agreement w/ Iran. “80s are calling back”. Disagreements with Israel and Saudis … Maybe I forgot some, please remind me.
Again, this does not exclude gratitude for Biden’s declared pro-Israel position (balanced by leaked articles that he is pressuring Israel to stop military action in private)
akuperma > . Eretz Yisrael is a front in a war that includes Ukraine, and threatens to expand to all of Eastern Europe, Taiwan, the Philippines and Korea.
I agree. I don’t think many people disagree, despite Chinese/Russian propaganda trying to exploit all friction points.
One unfortunate thing is that Israel waited until being attacked to take the stand … whatever their realpolitik considerations were ..
n0 > I know of too many Baal Habatim that learn less than their wives.
And I know may baalos batim who learn even more than their husbands!
My kos is hetzi-maleh
can they open an account with one of the Israeli branches in US before going? Or use an American bank with a branch in Israel and credit cards as described above?
> information is from 2014
Then by chazoka he is still Jewish