Always_Ask_Questions

@CharlieHall, thanks for the reference. Trying to find some hopeful things here:

there seems to be a tendency across all to have better results for non-ventilated patients. Last column is 0.1-0.3 better for all 4 treatments. This is either a sign that treatments are more effective early or that early use of ventilators was not done properly.

THere is also variability by age: Remdesivir Ratio of Death Rates (<1 is good) is 0.91-0.93 for 2 groups over 50, Hydroxy 0.8 for 70+, lopinavir 90.77 for <50, interferon 0.9 for 70+
All these numbers are uncertain and each have maybe 30% chance of being > 1, but there is a possible hope here that positive results for subgroups are not random.

looking at most important group: 70+, most optimistic case of 3 treatments will be 0.65, if we unrealistically multiply all improvements. But given that this is a lower common denominator trial, one can see that further tweaking, early intervention, this would lead to 2x improvement.

@ubiquitin. >> Mcconell didn’t even hold hearings. He didnt allow the senate to consent or reject. Mcconell isnt “the senate” he is but one of 100.

We are not talking hasidut, just plain din: Senate has it’s own rules that conform to Constitution, and they followed those rules. Voters elect Senators, Senators make rules, they select Majority Leader according to the rules, and he acts within the rules. If you think, this was not consent, write to your Senator and suggest him to challenge.

re: packing. It is justifiable, it just carries much heavier political price than what R-s did, and it is also has unclear ending. If each party starts adding Justices, ein ledavar sof…

politically curious is that Biden can’t say what he plans to do. Today, he got so relaxed after ducking softballs, that he admitted that voters deserve to know his plans and he is going to announce it some time between confirmation and election. Maybe he is tricking voters to watch him talking.

Recap for those who did not watch: Biden plans to save “barrels of energy”, which was followed by admitting that Trump achieved peace between [pause] Israel [could not name the second party to peace] and a reference to recent event with “a guy with the knife” or something like that. I don’t think he wants to court the pack.

yytz. I think Torah economic system is more nuanced and it is often flexible enough to accommodate economic realities of different times.

One example: halakha allows limits to free competition by trade unions, with a couple of exceptions, including teachers – to make teachers sharp and make education affordable for poor. This is in striking contrast to current practice both in general and Jewish society, where schools and teachers are well protected. It seems to follow from this Gemorah that we prefer to have teachers less sharp.

Azoiy, I understand the need to teach Torah
best way to achieve that goal is to be extra careful in both medical and political aspects. If opening schools require mesiras nefesh, then focus your community on this prime goal: you should close shuls, stores, parks, all adults walk in N95 masks, do not travel, test proactively, stay home when sick, keep each class separate, open windows in classes, buy air purifiers. I think this will be a success medically, and you’ll be written up positively even in NYT.

@se2015 My kids will stay home and watch dora the explorer

By the way, if someone has kids at home – why do they feel a need to go to a shul and demand that schools take kids away from your home, when they can fulfill a mitzva of teaching their kids Torah, job, and swimming. To put it simple – why walk to say “veshinantem levaneha” instead of just doing it?!

Pilpul: Davening in a shul without a mask is sfeik sfeika (meshugene is not hayav to daven, and prayers are probably not accepted while doing an avera), while teaching a kid is just sofek – either they will learn or not.

My personal opinion – if you are even minimally contributing to healing people, esp from the pandemic, then you should focus solely on the mitzva at hand and do what makes you do that job better, including being on good term with your boss. If you are not contributing, then just change the job. Why hang out in N95 if you could work from home.

Quick check seems to show that Sikh see beards as more important, in some cases agreeing to martyrdom not to shave. Anyway, you may also want to ask your wife or shidduch consultant. At least, keep a picture of yourself with a beard to prove your social status.

Check out what Joe Liberman says. He is probably a politician to whom we all can relate best. In a short interview that I saw recently, he both vouches that Biden is a decent centrist politician and that Trump is a useful disruptor, especially in foreign affairs.

@OrechDin, thanks for a good overview. I think this is definitely not a legal problem, but a political disagreement. Each party tries to change or keep rules to their advantage and there is no fault on either side as long as the means are legal.

I do think that making voting a little hard is a better idea than requiring everyone to vote as is done in some countries. Why do we need to force an opinion from someone who does not care about expressing it? Do you think this person will make a profound contribution to policy debate? Most likely, he will mark up whatever the visiting party worker tells him. Thus, election becomes in part a simple census of social groups, each voting in a pre-determined way.

Ok, so we have a small collection of detailed teshuvot – R Weiss, R Schachter, R Meir Twersky and also assorted quotes and public announcements of others.

We also have several posters who graciously represent those who disagree with these teshuvot.
Could they explain what their sources are? Maybe they can take time to ask their authorities to comment on these teshuvot? Maybe we can start Masehet Corona here.

re: The trump supporters are enraged that the democrats will use court packing to get the SC back.

I do find disturbing that Mr. Biden responds that he is not going to say what his position is. And Ms. Harris even said to Pence that she is going to answer the question and then continued to not answer.

In a healthier debate, they should have been asked the question multiple times after that so that voters have either an answer or it will become well known that they refuse to answer.

@akuperma – I can’t be a judge between you and your Mayor, but I see that people in other cities, including where Jews are a significant voting block and those where we are not: same groups of people disregard rules in public. Thus, your explanation may be your personal rationalization but insufficient to explain your behavior. In my town, even people who barely have any clothes on, have masks on religiously.

Maybe R Avraham Twersky’s observation is appropriate – he says that it is harder to treat intelligent alcoholics, especially doctors. They can always find a justification for their actions.

Any of you came from an accountant on Mayflower? If not, we should appreciate that we all were allowed into a country that stays a democracy for 200+ years with just a minor civil war in between, and gave us more rights and opportunities than other places where we came from. I don’t think it is fair to blame “sneaky Esav” for luring us into assimilation with freedom and acceptance – we need to figure out that challenge ourselves.

So, if this country stumbles it’s way through crazy politicians and theatrical selection of justices, let it be. Don’t argue with success. If you can contribute to make the country better – gezunte heig (after thinking it over first), but don’t get despaired. We, as a nation, have more historical insights than anyone else in this country, so stop being outraged at the sight of a politician doing something inappropriate.

@Syag, of course you need to take lots of factors into account. daily trends are easy – just take a 7-day average of the time series. If you want to read faster signal, you would need to match day-of-the-week ore careful. Not asking about protests is a good question, I agree with you. I am not sure whether it affects the question – what is an early prediction of magefa in the community. Misrepresentation is an even bigger question. I think nursing homes are the biggest examples. I followed several examples and overall statistics – where overall mortality measured later on uncovered that a number of nursing homes were hiding numbers. I am not sure we disagree much here.

What I have a problem with – an example of the person in this thread who suggests to sick people not to get tested. To spite the Mayor, I presume. So, possibly increasing chances that someone sick will not get treated on time or will infect someone else. Unfortunately, there is a taste of this in one of the public letters I saw recently that says – “to facilitate an accurate assessment of the infection spread in our communities and to prevent further surge, it is important for people in high infection areas to get tested now for COVID-19.” I think this is a deniable call to present a better picture of the community (while presumably wasting tests and public resources). As daf yomi explains – we can (and should?) judge people by kiso, koso, vekaaso.

@RebEliezer – interesting comparison. I recall it is also if patient says that he needs to eat, we listen to him too. In modern terms, doctor knows statistics for general population; the patient himself knows himself best. I do not recall an option to consult a tzadik. .. So, you can either listen to CDC or be more careful.

R Meir Twersky addresses an additional question in his teshuva – when there is a new unfamiliar disease, it is not enough to listen to one doctor as information is not certain. Also, do not listen to politicians, as they have their own political reasons that are not the same as our standard on saving lives.

@Reb Eliezer There is a ruling (psak) that someone who contributed to his illness should not be davened for

I think this psak should be publicized and posted everywhere … the article quotes an oral ruling. Is there a written version?

This psak may shock some people into submission. But maybe not those who already are not able to imagine things beyond their immediate perception. Can someone ask for a psak – can such pere adam be not called to the Torah, any other immediate consequences?

Re: Tehilim for Trump.

First, it may be late to question the tehilim, they apparently worked. So you probably wouldn’t want to retract tehilim after Hashem accepted them.

2nd, President Trump did use multiple measures: frequent rapid tests for himself and others around him; social distancing for everyone else. Secret service is great at enforcing social distancing. How does the psak apply in such a case? For example, to shlimazels who wear mask on one of the two face orifices or take the mask off to talk to others.

3rd. We might have different criteria for heads of state. Jews prayed for health of various kings and emperors, many of whom were involved in pretty unhealthy activities

@hakatan, today’s Daf Yomi Eruvin – if you see something against Torah, esp Hillul Hashem –
you need to act and not to defer until a more senior person issues a psak. [contrasting with the usual case that you do not issue psak in front your Rav]

HaKatan – government did not release the virus on Jews, at least it is not US government. Thus, it is not a gezerah shmad. We do not blame TV forecasters when it rains in the Sukkah.

Whatever your mayor and governor say, the outbreak is objectively happening. You want less outbreak – make your community be more careful; do teshuva for any other aveiros related or unrelated to the pandemic.

There is a teshuva from R Mayer Twersky in May stating (predicting?) that all politicians will have their own motives, and we should make our judgment based on Torah values independent of what politicians are saying. You seem to be so carried away blaming a politician that you are ready to hurt yourself to prove your point.

I see in a protest letter – “how dare they close shuls ner a holiday”? Maybe Hashem is sending these politicians to davka protect you near the holiday, so that you can learn in a healthy state the whole year ahead.

coffee, just contact whomever you consider a gadol, or ask your local Rav to consult whomever he consults. And then please report the answer here as this is the public matter. If you don’t receive the answer, you can post that also.

Syag,
thanks for fixing my post. Let me return the favor, then.

You seem to be claiming that religious Jews should behave same as other communities, but, due to smaller apartments, they will understandably be affected more by the pandemic, and that’s OK. We can keep our equal rights sustained, sorry, grandpa. We’ll say the kaddish with no masks, don’t worry.

I agree with everyone here – yes for davening, yes for hishtadlus, and yes for being open-minded…
on one hand, davening is better than burning tires and starting protests….
On the other, to protect Yserbius from being accused of insensitivity, we can look at the idea of “sheretz b’yado” – can we daven while doing averos (not just passively not doing hishtadlus …)?

Presuming that a plague is a punishment and lesson for us – we should at least try to discern the lesson and learn from them. Some of the “lessons learned” I heard are usually simply an extension of the speaker’s agenda, adding Covid for better taste.

OrechDin – you mention poskim in Israel who require masks. So, if a Rav of a shul follows that psak and someone shows up without a mask or in a half-mask – what happens? Do they get an aliya? Or do we now have separate shuls with and without masks?

Maybe we could use a 2×2 mehitza with traditional men/women separation in one dimension and mask/non-mask dimension in another. I saw this happening spontaneously sans the mehitza.