Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
RebE mitzva of mishloach manos
thanks for the reference. I think one can clearly deliver MM safely and halakhically correct. I can pack it 2 days in advance with gloves and put a note to that effect. This is more of a public policy issue: – how would a community behave.
I am thinking that better not to participate. Last Purim, when issues were not yet well understood, I had to duck from several huggers. Delivering MM is supposed to make people friendlier. If I’ll be bumping into semi-dressed drunk people and walk around them, it will not contribute to ahavas yisroel.
PS disregard the previous shaila, of course the whole family can hang together
ok, height is chameshim amos, but what about bein adam l’havero? shisha reglaim as by CDC, or is it hukas goyim?
Talk radio has a propaganda aspect influencing masses, that I am not fond of, and an educational aspect that is good. You hear not just pronouncements, but arguments and discussions.
I listen more to NPR than to AM radio to get familiar with their reasoning. Does not mean that I agree with them, but I am sure that when I take a position I know what the counter-arguments are. Some here have a curious view that they refuse to listen to the other side – and then pronounce their judgment based on quotes they picked up somewhere. You can not be sure that you are not being biased. You see that a number of reasonable people found something in Talk Radio, so you should investigate and make a reasonable judgment.
PS It appears some liberal-minded Israelis have more integrity than Americans. A story that one Israeli academic told me: “I chose” not to be observant … Then, my older son, growing up, started mocking Datiim. I told him – if you want to talk like that, you need to at least know what you are talking about. So, he went a took a class. Became shomer Shabbat. Does not eat in my house anymore. Then, my 2nd son – same story repeated… (One of them is involved in right-wing Israeli politics). <end of story>. I give this guy a lot of credit – especially that he said the same thing to the 2nd son after what happened with the first.
Leyzer,
if your kids can’t just fight with each other without external help, you are doing something wrong!Find online questions about Purim and print it with one kid so that he can ask others and then give them prizes. Make some questions simple, and others open-ended, so that a couple of kids could disagree and make it into a discussion. See YWNCR as an example!
Ask everyone to prepare a story and 3 questions after that. Everyone votes on best story. Again, prizes.
meir G. Bravo, let’s make sure no child is left behind! Expose everybody. If it is ok for your kids and students, how dare they
common > we then will set up a gallows in our back yard and hang up some people and then party again
You should ask a shailah about it. Gallows need to be seen from reshut harabim according to my tradition.
It would be good if those who feel that there is a problem here, went and asked their Rav. Maybe we can learn something here? I do understand your emotions – Yiddishkeit contains lots of ritual acts; we are habitually under assault; so we need to protect ourselves.
Still, logically, there should be more shailos about lhavero than l’makom. Most mitzvos l’makom are not changing quickly over time and do not change over a person (except strict shiurim that our zeides did not use). Mitzvos l’havero depend on the person you interact with. So, you may be asking whether you are allowed, for example, to post on YWN disagreeing with someone – many times. It may well maybe that you can reply to AAQ in a way you would not to Wolf or GH …
As an exampl, I just listened to a class on Purim: long discussion whether one is yotze when a present is not accepted and a cursory note: of course, things are different this year, people will not congregate and drink in my house. I asked a couple of doctors and they say, giving matanot is not generally a problem. By me, a novel issue would require a little more investigation: would people actually meet and some talk? would they cough while packing? would they start giving it to each other in a crowd after megilla reading? But, no, it is more scholarly to go through all achoronim on an issue that will not affect most of us.
FOCUS on what is important.
Avram, thanks for the Moscow diamond story.
Note the differences between my examples and yours: my were about learning from what a Rav did and often with an explanation. This is straight halakhic reasoning. Of course, it may be possible to argue that the story is not true, or that there are other opinions, or other circumstances. Yours is a story that something happened. ext, you’ll tell me that bat kol confirmed your position?!The story is interesting, I can’t resist asking kashios: how did Bolshevik coup in Petersburg happen in Moscow, and why did some Bolsheviks went after Jews on that day instead of going after the Provisional government as they were supposed to? Maybe someone paid some diamonds to get out after Bolshevik revolution and needed a story to explain how he escaped.
My other argument is that we always choose what is important to ask. I recently quoted a responsa from last April: right now, no questions about dinei mamonot, only nefashot. The counter-argument seems to be – hey, yes, we know we should ask more about Hoshen Mishpat, please do, but first , there is another O’Ch shaila we need to finish. I saw a simple rule in a sefer: parent/spouse should be 80 positive. So, make 4 positive comments, then you can allow yourself one negative.
Try the same with shailos for at least 50-50: do not ask about l’makom before you asked about l’havero. Any takers?
RebE, thanks for helping with the sources.
An interesting note: I was not hired. If there was a chiyuv, I should have asked him. A good point.Those who say tircha is not a big deal, maybe forgot the beginning of the thread: this is an outdoor minyan on a cold windy day. Piskei d’Zimra and kadishem before were already skipped. Nobody is sitting, kal vehomer talking. (Those who feel that masks are a threat should feel even stronger).
But I think the main contention here is not a specific halakha as nobody brought a source for opposite, or called up their Rav and asked them. The issue raised is whether we are allowed to deal with issues ourselves or need to ask any time there is a change from daily routine. This is, in truth, a good question highlighting our lives today – pretty routine and predictable (pre-Covid) and ability to constantly communicate. So, as there is helicopter parenting, there is helicopter paskening. If you are in the presence of someone who knows Torah better, you should not pasken. But what if the Rav is just a text away? in truth, phones already made Rav Feinstein available after he was able to get out of USSR, but it may be more a cultural phenomenon now as everyone texts.
You do realize that Jews were able to live kosher lives before texting, though? And life was also not always as routine. And people were used to change their own oil and make their own wool. Your question is then – are we allowed to continue act on our own when we can text the Rav or the parent? This related to Tzimtsum that Hashem, and wise parents practice.
More positive thoughts, it is really a good topic, thanks Mrs Syag
it will be easy to vaccinate some of the communities at the weddings, 1000 people at a time.
Hashem is making it really easy to become a tzaddik. It used to require being honest in business, greet every person first, learn Torah kuloh, waking up for vasikin – now, you put on a mask (properly) and you are already ahead of the olam! L
‘havdil same thing at the Ivy league – applications are up, as people think they can get in without SATlet’s just at look at Peshat: when Moshe was carrying the Tablets – which one was he holding in the right hand, and which one was heavier?
>> Nogea bdavar is not an insult, it’s a status.
it’s a status I did not have, because I was not following my own preferences.
It might be seen as an insult to presume that I would have acted while nogeah b’davar, but given that we are just the screen names here, it is not an insult, just your mistake in logical thinking.
What you guys are adding here, I need to make sure I am not Nogeah b’davar. There is a way to achieve that, courtesy of Alter from Slabodka. He did not want to waste his learning time and go honor a certain visitor. To make sure he is not just lazy, he walked to the house where the visitor stayed, then turned and went back home. So, I should have walked around the block on the way home.
Avram, I was totally not nogea b’davar: I was not in a hurry and not cold. I did not need rationalizing. I would prefer to say all kaddishes. I saw other people being cold. I agree that if I were to have personal inclination to skip, I should have asked the Rav in the minyan. The problem was – the Rav might have been cold, so he was nogea b’davar :). He would have been forced to tell me to say all of them in order to resist his own yetzer harah! In truth, if I were nogeah b’davar, I would not have skipped.
As to Hashem’s will, maybe He wants us to take care of other people despite our desire to say an extra kaddish – rather than ask shailos about it.
In the spirit of joint learning for all of you guys and gals who are commenting, please notice that you seem to put in the worst assumptions about any missing pieces in my story: I had my own interest, I don’t know whether my Rav will correct me or not. Notice what you are doing here: you first dislike the idea that I did not ask a shailoh, then you go and find all proofs, instead of making reasonable assumptions.
When Israel invited Gorbachev in 1992, Rush quipped – This is as Jews inviting Pharaoh after Exodus
GH: as more and more of the previously independent practices are bought out
Now you are complaining. “if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor” after he sells his office.
Mrs. Syag, trying my best!
More shiurim available online
Daf Yomi is better attended
Can eat during shiur
Can ask questions during shiur on mute without bothering anyone.
And google the answers yourself.
Kids are better behaving sue to lack of peer influence
Kids see me working and learning.
Kids now know that even mathematicians do not use pre-calculus. Can’t fool them anymore.
Can attend work meetings without travel.
Can attend multiple meetings simultaneously.I am dismayed that medical office assistants are projected to grow 19% next 2 years (with average job growth being 4%). I thought we just proved that millions of us are capable of making our own vaccine appointments over publix websites!
High costs of healthcare hides such inefficiencies as “only 10% of overall costs”, which may be as much as other countries spend on healthcare in general. Hopefully, recently introduced hospital price transparency combined with population zoomification will put pressure here, unless the “big guy” will reverse the “old guy” reforms
Glasses might be protective too. So (less seriously) is eating garlic.
One early statistic observation was a French observation that smokers are better than surviving Covid. This research did not age well. Presumably, observation can be explained as following: younger, generally healthier in general, smokers get hospitalized, and are more likely to survive.
Even latest Israeli research in Lancet – 99% reduction in difficult cases, 85% reduction after first dose. This is among health-care workers, not elderly.
COVID revealed who your real friends are and unmasked those who do not care about others and pretended to be smart and learned.
This is decreasing demand for shaliach manot and freeing funds for matanot la evyonim.
COVID eradicated flu and probably other less successful viruses.
DY >> You are too quick to assume you don’t have one.
this is, of course, a valid concern for all of us. I personally was involved in a couple of competitive intellectual pursuits over years, so I know what I don’t know reasonably well. As an illustration of me knowing my limitations, I realize that I can’t convince common sechel that I am not doing my halachik root canals – nor do I need to.
More generally, routine memorization of material will not give you an ability to know what you don’t know. One would hope that Talmud learning should give you some feeling what you can and what you can’t figure out. Maybe ask your own Questions and answers, and then go thru commentaries to see if you made a mistake…
Another story (with the same Rav): he gave a parsha dvar Torah on shabbat first to non-observant students, and then to observant. When he entered the second room, he would stand for a minute without saying a word. I knew that he typically discussed same issue that bothered him in multiple talks during the week. So, I asked him why he was pausing. Was it a trick to force listeners to quiet down? He admitted that the topic was the same, but he explained that he needs to re-work how he talks about it: students from Jewish schools were trained to listen, but he wanted them to first understand the problem and (sic!) start asking questions. So, he had to push them further.
>> look at how fast he declared The Red State of Texas a Disaster area
Not trying to get in the middle of this bull fight, but Gov of Texas thanked Mr Biden “for partial approval” of his disaster request.
There is a first impression that Biden’s administration is very focused on creating perceptions. Repeated claims of “no vaccines”/”no plans” are unseemly. The federal effort seems to be directed solely to re-distribute does to the desired populations and “no plans” is simply used to justify the take over. First, this will generate ill will and takes focus away from trying to deal with the main problem. If there are any genuinely new ideas how to deal with the pandemic better, I may have missed it.
@Daas, He’s saying that people don’t ask enough shailos in Choshen Mishpat.
To go deeper, our focus is not infinite. You will have priorities in what you are thinking/ doing/ learning/ davening about. This may be subconscious. As you just slipped above – “even Orach Chaim”. “Even”? Because it was earlier in your yeshiva curriculum? The way I see it, there is no “kal vehomer” here. Issues relating bein adam lehavero are harder by definition as
(a) there is generally no one answer as issue depends on people involved
(b) as every issue l’havero also have an aspect l’makom, you need to do it right once
(c) mistakes l’havero have to be forgiven by that person, and might be harder than being forgiven by Hashem !It may be that we, as a community, re-focused on mitzvot l’makom as a natural reaction to Reform, communists, etc to build a protective wall. This is like proverbial burns after jumping into the fire to save someone. Jumping was the right thing to do, but the burns are real and need to be addressed.
@Daas, ok, glad that we are on the same page. I may have sharpened this issue too much to get my point across. I do ask Orech Chaim shailos when I have them.
@Common – also a fair point. I do ask experts on all of the above. Total probably comes to 5 max per year. This is reasonable. Disclosure: I did try on major appliances with a mixed success, but I learned a lot!
Is asking shailos always good? Can shailos be ever bad?
I saw a last year response from r Willig re:yeshiva contracts changing due to Covid – we are now dealing with dinei nefashot, dinei mamonot can wait, just keep money whether they are for now.
Once my Rav was giving a class on business ethics in halakha. He mentioned, inter alia, that Polish responsa had a lot to say about it, but then, I think from 17th century (possibly coinciding with economic decline of Poland as grain became less needed in the West) –
most of responsa became about kashrut of pots and pans and no more business ethics Q&As.So, we had a short conversation:
Me: So it is _your_ fault?
Rav: No, it is _your_ fault.Hope you can unpack this.
DY >> Ironic considering your screen name
thanks for a good question!
I was just thinking today that I got a misleading name! AAQ does not stand for “always ask shailos”, it stands for “always ask kushios”.. .As R Steinsaltz ZT’L used to say – Eskimos have hundred synonyms for snow, Arabs – for sand, and Jews – for “question”.
So, AAQ stands for trying to analyze the issue deeply and with integrity, reducing noise and bias of preconceived opinions. You are trying to make into an opposite – only some “gedolim” are allowed to think, the rest should tremble (haredi?) to decide any simple issues. In this case, I am trying to show that your trembling somehow disappears for issues that affect well-being of people around you.
So, if you were the person hesitant to switch the light on, you would accept Rav’s rebuke, but you would not accept mine? Would you call the Rav to clarify?
same essay address a similar point: “An authority who allows himself to be consulted [when a life is in danger] is reprehensible, and he who consults him (rather than speedily acting to save the life in danger) is a murderer” (Tur, Orah Hayyim 328). Maimonides, that master of conciseness, deviated from his regular manner and treated this issue with great elaborateness… [Rav Soloveitchik, in the original, inserts the previous citation of
Rambam.]
[AAQ: R Yosef Soloveichik was part of that story also – he was that sick kid]GH: (Moderna?) now being tested for younger age groups
I think they are. I am not sure how this test is being designed. I can see them testing for short-term safety. But how do you test for effectiveness given low disease rates? Either you need a huge group or maybe they are testing for some intermediate metrics, such as viral load?
Anyway, Israelis started vaccinating kids w/ medical issues without waiting for placebo-based testing. It looks more and more that real-life testing (with caution) is more effective way to get to the solution than FDA “golden standards”. It may have been OK at the beginning -Warp speed ensured that manufacturing was being set up during themonths of Phase 3, so there was no real delay. But now, there might be time to go with less-controlled tests. For those concerned, analyzing data from uncontrolled settings is still science. It has higher chance of error – but it compensates for ability to test more variations (dosage, for example) and more test cases.
He was using it as an example that the mitzvah of caring for human life overrides everything else.
He also quotes R Chaim Soloveichik who directed a person to add fire on shabbat for the doctor to better see a sick child when the doctor was reluctant to ask for it. The person hesitated, and R Chaim said that the person is both am haaretz and an apikoires …he leads to this thesis: One who makes light of the mandate of pikuach nefesh is not only making light of one isolated halacha. Rather, he is guilty of distorting and perverting the entire Torah. His flippancy depicts the laws of the Torah not, r”l, as “merciful, kind and just,” but as vengeful and vicious. It goes without saying that such a distortion constitutes a chillul Hashem….mischaracterizing our compliance with social distancing as a mere capitulation to the standards of outside entities had significant practical ramifications. The standards of all outside entities do not value life as absolutely as does the Torah. Tosafos (Yoma 85a) comment, “‘You shall live through them and not die due to them’ [means] that we must under no circumstances allow for the death of a Jewish person.
>> People should ask their ONE rav and their ONE doctor.
this is not always true. Specifically, in a case of unknown entity like a new virus, it is prudent to ask multiple doctors and take into account the worst case. this is according to Rav Twersky above, some other poskim, and Dr. AAQ himself. If your Rabbi is making this mistake before paskenining, please explain it to him. Some local Rabbis here initially tried that – just call their friendly frum doctor form a well-known institution. This is still daas yahid.
All these are “first world problems”. How about – do we have a moral reason to vaccinate low-risk groups while there are hundreds of millions of high-risk people all over the world who will not get a vaccine for maybe years?
Should Jews at least make sure to help Jewish communities in 3rd world countries?
for the laughs: our online school required flu vaccinations this year ….
We filed for a religious exemption – our religion does not allow even little risk of going to the medical office to get a vaccine from flu that is not happening this year in order not to infect other online students?!
PS please don’t ask me whether I asked a shaila about this!
Quoting a story from R Meir Twersky:
I heard the following story from my brother, Ha’Gaon Hakadosh Rav Moshe Twersky zt”l hy”d, who, in turn, heard it from Ha’Gaon Rav Gershon Zaks zt”l: There was once an emergency meeting of gedolim to discuss potential responses to a harsh, cruel governmental edict. The discussion continued through the day until it was almost sunset. One of the participants suggested that they should stop to daven Mincha. The Chafetz Chaim zt”l, astonished, lovingly reproached him: “Mincha ligt ihr offen kup?! Mincha is on your mind[8]?!” The importance and sanctity of tefilah (prayer) is indeed inestimable, and yet – in certain circumstances – it is forbidden to pray!
[8] Tur, Orach Chaim 93>> CDC is jumping the gun by allowing vaccinated people to avoid quarantine even when exposed?
good question. Maybe they have numbers, or feeling pressure from politicians. When politicians say that “they will follow science”, they take responsibility from themselves but MIGHT be pressuring scientists behind the scenes.
Hopefully, this is a transient question: if vaccines decrease prevalence of the virus, then it will be easier for everyone.
Mrs Syag,
thanks for clarifying. I think we have a profound disagreement here – which questions are important and, further, where chumrot are applicable.It would be a bad pun to say that “nobody died” because I said 1 kaddish instead of 3. I obviously showed chesed to freezing people. The Rav did not correct me. so, how bad it could be.
You just can’t say the same about people not wearing masks, especially in the communities where so many older people died. “no shortage” of doctors is a strange reference. This illustrates that you are willing to approach this question in a much lighter way than question of liturgy. (Overwhelming majority of doctors tell people to wear masks. Re: rabbis, I quoted a psak above that one should not ask such Rabbis shailos, so it is a catch-22 here).
>> All Ethiopians undergo geirus misofek. Why not all Russians?
Because Ethiopians went through hundreds of years of having their version of Yehadut. Russians started coming in the 70s – 60 years after Soviets destroyed religious life, or just 30 for those from Lithuania and Latvia. A competent beit din can figure out who is Jewish or not by talking to their grandparents.
FYI, when the student movement for Soviet Jewry was starting in US in the 60s, both Rabbis and Israeli government were not eager. R Feinstein, R Teitz, Lubavitch Rebbe all called for a quiter approach to a different degree, partly being afraid of Soviets, partly to protect their own quiet efforts. R Soloveichik, when asked by students, consulted Israeli government, and also suggested restrained, but later changed his mind, when he realized that he based his halachik ruling on false advise from Israelis – he asked them “what is best for Soviet Jews”, and they replied “what is best for Israel” (as they hoped for diplomacy with USSR).
You seem to be making a similar logical error – making conclusions about a group of Jews not based on what they are, but how it immediately affects you.
>> how likely it is for someone who has been vaccinated to be contagious
again, preliminary results show that you are right. But opposite thinking goes as following: vaccine may prevent serious illness more than viral load. Then, vaccinated person will be walking around feeling healthy but possibly infect others, especially those with whom they are in prolonged contact, such as family. Just like children …
Even if the load reduction is confirmed, the question is – by how much. Would it be enough not to reduce other measures. And the main protection, of course – despite the threads online – is not the masks, but deciding where not to go.
Apparently, Bidenistas are canceling agreement with Mexico on preventing Central Americans move through their territory (which they did in lieu of paying for the wall, I guess). What is the justification? If I understand correctly, international laws on refugees say that they should apply to the first country they enter.
MadeAliyah, my point is that we have different political parties claiming opposite things.
It just can’t be that closings are a left-wing thing in US and a right-wing thing in Israel.
It just can’t be that Trump’s pro-active approach to vaccine did not matter – and EU’s by-the-book approach failed because they were tardy.
The simplest explanation is that politicians use situation to attack their opponents. Usual thing in a democracy, but an unseemly one during a public emergency.And we do not need to join that.
>> dont consult an expert.
I quoted bunch of opinions and ways I consulted, I did not see you quoting whom you are consulting regarding COVID behavior. I asked several times. Maybe I miss some, I apologize.
Still this is funny, as apparently you subscribe to Daas Torah and I do not (yes, I asked).
>> in part to water down the rapidly growing Chareidi vote
such ahavat israel .. Or maybe to be sure that all Jews will come given how many mixed families were among them?
Charlie, glad to see someone working on this! If you are doing analysis, it got to be by a connected cluster, not just by zip code. People mostly communicate within their own group .. you can use maybe mobility data + estimate ethnicity from names to see if there are tighter cluster – maybe some indeed are 95% …
Raboisem, savlanut. Israel is producing the answers to all these questions. We should know clearly in 1-2 months.
There are preliminary studies saying that vaccinated people have lower load and thus decrease probability of infecting others.
>> did you just read some opinions and made a decision
a good question – when do we need to ask, and whom? I heard and read enough questions about kaddish that I don’t see my situation as unique or risky. These questions do not seem to depend on the particular person, unless someone is uniquely OCD or disorganized …
I ask more often when the answer might differ depending who is asking.
For example, I asked questions when I had problems with schools. One confirmed that my kid is not a problem, a school is (by referring to his own experiences) and hoped it will work out. Another one encouraged me not to be afraid of doing online (which we were reluctant at that point). When COVID started, I sent info about online resources around, the Rav resent it to many other Rabbonim, vouching for me, so I presume he did not mind.
I also heard a question ask re:COVID – someone’s Rav was not careful about this – how one should relate to this Talmid Chacham? The answer was – you should still show him respect as to Talmid Chacham, but you should not ask him shailos.
The world seemingly went mad. Maybe it is a long asymptomatic COVID or a separate virus that Chinese or Russians sent at the same time. For some reason, when the country/world needs to come together, everyone is reducing public health problems to political arguments.
It is easy to see that most of them are wrong, as they all contradict each other. In US, wearing masks and closing businesses is considered liberal. In Israel, right-wing government tries to close and their lefty ‘partners” – to close. In US, some blame “lack of federal distribution” and say getting vaccine was easy. In Europe – many blame rigid centralized system for being behind US in getting vaccines. In Israel, being the highest vaccinated country in the world seemingly leads to yet another election…
I would not trust statistics quoted about illegal immigration one way or another. They are most likely propaganda. Many quotes say “immigrants have less crime”, for example, intentionally confuse legal and illegal immigrants. The other side often brings spectacular cases that may not be representative.
Legal immigration is much safer as people are to some degree vetted for their background and have known connections to people or companies in US. Congress should agree to the number we are willing to accept and stick with the numbers. If you want more, maybe organize private charity and sponsor more (may need some legislation also). Soviet Jews, arriving as refugees, were faring better in the communities that helped them directly, v. those that offloaded them to government services.
In extreme cases, like Syria, the most practical way to support refugees is to resettle most of them in nearby countries. Bringing 10,000 of them to US is taking focus away from the millions left behind.
I believe most new economic immigrants tend to vote for a party that provides more benefits.
Exception are political immigrants and refugees with prior experience of socialism: Cubans, Russians, East Europeans. Including Jews from those countries. Not sure where Chinese stand on this. Later on, some move to more conservative positions, but many stay behind (Reform Jews).
Eventually, it evens out, as most all voters are descendants of immigrants and the country is split 50-50 (in electoral results)MiDvar Sheker Tirhok? Just buy tulips.
The difference between bitcoin and tulip is anonymity that is being used by criminals and terrorists, and countries headed by criminals and terrorists, to go around financial monitoring.
Will participation of more mainstream players change that? bring some regulation? Or simply make it harder to find criminals among larger population? I did not research that.