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>> some shuls restrict to members only
“members only” is another issue. I am talking about travel/quarantine – whether they are covered by minyan or government rules. I know of lot of people, whether Jews or non-Jews, disregard them. This is how pandemic travels and evolves.
a WHO member says that he realized what quarantine is only when he was in China – they were taken from a side entrance from the plane to the hotel and were treated as biohazard.
common >> this was done after consultation with a leading posek
First, thanks for the wonderful bank story. As the story clearly says – the lady asked for one kaddish for her husband, and one kaddish for someone else. It is obviously more zechuyot to say more.
I then consulted R Salanter. He let someone else be shaliach tzibur on his mother’s yohrtzeit and explained – my mother deserves that I do this mitzva (hesed to the other person) be done on this day. So, this establishes that hesed is not less a good thing for neshomah than extra davening.
As to permissibility of reducing davening – our minyan already skips upfront, and there are multiple teshuvot what canbe reduced that I can summarize as “you can skip, but make sure it still feels like davening”. This is definitely a case here.
On a simple level, shtika k’mode. Rabbi and gabbi heard me and did not correct. And they are quite capable of!
>> [river] Interestingly that is the law nowhere in the US
I learned this sugya very superficially, maybe others can contribute and we can understand equity in halakha. This issue will be pushed at us, whether we want it or not.
Re: Health, I think this is more aggressive than AA. This will now be measured systematically. there is now lively discussion in liberal media about every Biden’s department and whether there are enough people of each sub-class at every level. If this continue, I think Biden will just quit.
I think the question is a valid one during the pandemic. Even if this is a relatively little time, but it is extra time. Whether you are in an unsafe minyan inside, or at a safer minyan outside where people are exposed to elements. I am also often an only one saying kaddish, I just skip the earlier ones, and then say one at the end at a relatively high speed. I hope others utilize various other means of minimizing tircha …
abukspan >> It is easy to look back through the meggilah and see in retrospect
excellent, psychologists call it “hindsight bias” – you look at Esther’s actions or vaccine development after the fact, and you say – of course, I understand that and could have done better than them!
CtLawyer, am I reading you correctly – you got first vaccine and went to shul the next day?
Even lawyers get emotional? You are not having any immunity until next shabbos.Not a scientific observation, but a common sense one, that might later be confirmed by an experiment: those, especially elderly, who had no side effects should be more careful as possibly their immune system is not responding well. Especially w/ Moderna, as they seem to have used a higher dose in Phase 3 to make sure they pass the criteria. A later antigen test would be another data point, although researchers warn of low reliability. Again, these ideas are not (yet, unfortunately) tested.
> So what did we come out with?
yes. We need a resolution in a week! Could someone go back and review this plethora of opinion by the COVID rule: consider the poskim who figured out, followed, and publicized protective rules more reliable on any issues that require an intense inquiry, like above. If someone did not pass the COVID test, is less reliable on his ability to analyze complex situations. for example. I heard R Heinemann speaking last April, and he was on the “passed” side. [“if you do not behave according to most stringent societal opinions, someone somewhere will not give a ventilator to a Jewish person”]. For the poskim who are not with us, you might check behavior of his students, although this is not entirely fair ….
>> Until this issue is resolved
How would this issue be resolved? I thought it is already resolved – someone admitted that they were covering deaths to avoid federal prosecutors. I am not aware of a “Trump exemption” in federal policies.
>> $2.75
thank you for your generous $0.02 contribution! I rather drive.
We are discussing in another thread a subtle idea that even if a mashkeh is technically kosher, but it lists non-kosher ingridents, you don’t serve it to heilike people. In the sane vein, even if the state and the minyan you visited does not ask for quarantine, it would be prudent to be more machmir with other people’s lives when visiting them.
Why wouldn’t you?! It is a question, I really can not comprehend.
SZ: not sure where your point about “upper class”
My point is that one of the reasons Us “middle class” is less is because the “upper class” is larger. That is not a bad thing, except for commies.As to “culture”, OUSD numbers show that US had a (decreasing) lead on educated population over Europe from 1920s. What you define as “culture” was remarked upon by Tocqueville: Americans tend towards practical skills that are useful when going to frontier (whether physical or virtual) rather than poetry and philosophy popular among European aristocrats. So, you may be unfair discounting applied intellectuals as just “materialism”. They are the ones who connect the world though railroads, radio, electricity, special forces, internet.
Nothing stops talking better than having masks on and freezing temperature! I don’t even miss having seforim around as the kahal is definitely catching up with me in speed with every degree down…so, maybe this is one of the ways for our teshuva ….
I notice also people above bragging about visiting shuls while traveling. Could you please limit your rich religiosity for just a little?! The rule about travel is on the books in many schools and minyanim (probably the ones you visited) but is not enforced in many places.
Almost all cases in the Jewish community I know about are brought by travelers – to somewhere or just after return. Many of worldwide outbreaks are tied to vacations or holidays. Variants are also moving this way.
>> I read Biden’s Executive Order
It start nicely, defining equity as ” consistent and systematic fair, just, and impartial treatment of all individuals, including individuals who belong to underserved communities that have been denied such treatment,”. Who can be against “impartial treatment”?!
next – “agencies shall consult with members of communities that have been historically underrepresented in the Federal Government”. So, here is the test for equal outcome, rather than equal opportunity.
next – Many Federal datasets are not disaggregated by race, ethnicity, gender, disability, income, veteran status, or other key demographic variables. we will all be marked up by reporting, I presume, our races, ethnicity, sexual preferences …
What does Gemora say about equity? What comes to my mind is how do we monitor several farmers along a river to ensure “equity”. The answer is that we do not – we let the first farmer along the river to possibly use more water “le derech shalom”. Maybe there is more discussion there…But at minimum this identifies potential danger of pursuing equity – inevitable fights for more or less equity (hope this word is still allowed!).
As Exhibit A, currently any policy streamlining vaccination is attacked as potentially inequitable. Statnews (sic!) counts percentage of vaccinated in rich and poor, black and white counties, not even bothering to weight by population age. Ein ledavar sof.
Can Jews apply for our equity? We were probably the only minority in Christian countries for about 1500 years.
I previously compared Trump w/ Yiftach – we need this type sometimes, but there are downsides, and downfalls .. Possibly same midos that made him popular, alsl let to his downside. Still, in terms of rhetoric, he was not much different from others, such as Al Gore. The only difference is that there are more people listening to him. Notice that, not counting those who went to fight in DC, there were a lot of pretty ordinary people – business owners, nurses, veterans.
>> When frum people were sending their children to public school, they left Yiddishkeit in droves.
So, we have undeniable both positive and negative effects of American education on Jews. I listened with kids to Ellis Island audio interviews and several Jews there said that they could not believe that it is possible to go to a free high school and also did not discriminate against Jews.
On the other hand, it lead to tremendous assimilation, it is no doubt that yeshiva/BY education saved a lot of people, but is not preparing them for modern life and for earning an honest living outside of teaching in the same yeshivos, which obviously can not accommodate everyone without an external source of funds.on a related note – school ran by Rabban Gamliel had 2 tracks – Torah and Greek. Which one had more students and why?
>> America has a small middle class, culturally and economically-speaking,
fact check: often claimed, but is true only if you consider being in an “upper class” a bad thing.
quoting Rakesh Kochhar, Pew Research, 2017:
US has less “middle class” than Europe – 60% v. 70-75% in France and Germany when middle class is defined “relative” to the income in that same country (2/3 to 2 median incomes). Part of it because .. US has, o horror, 15% upper class, while Europe has 10%. Lower class in US is 26% v. 18% in Germany/France. So, differences are not dramatic and mostly in US favor.When adjusted for cost of living and using US standards, Germany/France get almost same 63% middle class, 4% upper class, 33% lower class. When trying to adjust for possibly not including myriads of gov benefits in Europe in the above, France is 92% of US.
College-wise, al pi OUSD, number of people with tertiary education in US is > 40% from 20s to 60s; UK slightly behind;l in in France 40s for 20-y.o, going down to 20 for 60yo; Germany in 20s (take in mind their non-college career tracks). Russia, Canada, Israel, Japan South Korea are 5-10% ahead.
Just read about R Twerski’s mother going to talk to his teacher after he was included into a holiday play .. the teacher, I guess, realized and started apologizing, but Rebetzin did not see any problems “if after all education at home, he will be affected by a play, then _we_ have a problem”
I agree that this changes with times .. From a dvar Torah, some Hasidishe Rav in Poland would not let his daughter out of his house. Didn’t want her to socialize with kids on his, hasidische shul, forget about public schools… This is pre-corona 1920s ….
Still, I don’t think, we got logistics of getting kids educated both Jewishly and in general studies right.[Heard R Meir Twersky quoting R Soloveichik, when organizing Maimonides in Boston – “we are faced with a need to give dual education. It looks impossible, but we need to do that”. ] It is mostly a choice between under-funded school with limited education and mediocre Rebbes, or an over-priced school with lack of proper behavior.
I see a path as elementary Jewish schools that focus on middos, and then switching to online semi-public schools and online colleges (can control/improve quality, affordable, and no effect of regular public schools) with offline Jewish subjects in small groups or formal schools. There are already several yeshivot (LA) and Beis Yaakovs (Denver, last time I checked) that outsourced general studies to state online schools.
If there would be a critical mass of families going this way, so that kids could do Jewish subject together and socialize, this might become a path forward.
>> just putting down like 3 or 4 percent of the price of the house .. yes that’s the new generation and economy were in today.
Ein Hadash Tahat Hashemaim – this happens before every housing crisis. So, if it happens in your area already [not in mine, I believe], please do not buy RE, or at least do not buy on the outskirts of the city … typical pattern is that when things are going hot, prices in best areas go up, say, 20% and people start buying in more “affordable” areas where prices go up 100%. Then, things go down and people in “affordable” areas with 4% down foreclose.
I am preparing to watch Reagan’s impeachment next week. remember how he reached out to Russians and called for violence in the [German] Capital?!
“Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall”?? As a direct result of his hateful language, thousands of people [several years later] ILLEGALLY overran and destroyed that wall.
Even if you meet one, you may never know, as he is surely wearing a mask.
At least you know who does not qualify and where not to look, to quote Chernobeler
>> the sefardy poskim always viewed a shaitel as a big bedieved and a tichel as lechatchila
I looked at some images of Jews arriving from Iraq and everyone wears a kufiya, men and women.
Off-topic question – what is with Sephardim wearing black hats? Ashkenazim would wear it, ostensibly, not to honor Polish nobles, but simply to preserve the way they were told by someone, yeshiva students were dressing before. Sephartdim seem to be wearing them for the opposite reason of behaving like a community around them, that is for the opposite reason to the community. A paradox appears to be that Sephardim are more justified in wearing black hats …
>> Ever heard of sending to local day camps
other option is to work/volunteer in a camp, whether local or not. Not only good for the budget, but better for the kids also. And, if you are still WFH, you can take a longer worcation with the kids yourself.
>> “They” refers to public health officials
Phase 3 trials were pretty transparent. Unless you suspect fraud, lots of numbers were in the reports. At this point, we have millions of people vaccinated in US, UK, Israel, EU. We don’t see all data yet, but I think we can presume if there were frequent complications, this will be known. South Africa, for example, stopped using AstraZenica, when it was shown less effective on their variant ….
>> , it’s about Media hypocrisy.
I understand your point. And I understand it bothers you because you are confronted by people who read this. I am asking to look wider at the issue.
What is then your point on dressing differently, if you don’t want people to pay attention to your behavior. You (generalizing here, not you personally) had a chance to explain to your kids that to respect your Talmidei Chachamim and take precautions to save their lives and their Torah. Instead, you are burying those Chachamim with a half-mask at best.
This bothers me more than what an unlearned paper might write.
press87, other than a presumption that I am a kofer, I was not able to fully follow your text. Could you please add some commas next time? I was able to parse the last sentence, thanks for separating it. I think you are right – people who do not work are often feeling happier. We are discussing in this thread the problems of professional families that work hard, pay high tuition, and are under stress. So, the kids end up seeing distressed parents and not joy of Yiddishkeit… Quitting jobs to get tuition breaks at someone else’s expense is not the Torah answer for many.
As I said, this is a repeat from 1930s. The joke I heard, I think from R Nosson Sherman, about a father who spends little money he earned on after-public-school Rebbe for his son. He asks his son – what he learned.
The son says – Yitziyat Mitzraim … Moshe built a bridge over Yam Suf, then sent helicopters and bombed Egyptians.
Father – really, this is what the Rebbe said?
Son – no, this is my version. If I’d tell you what he said, you would never believe it ….>> if a funeral is okay in the Arab sector then what is the fuss about the ultra-Orthodox
what is the point of being “ultra-ortho-dox” when you think you can behave like the least educated members of non-Jewish society. what is the point of going to yeshivos for several generations at someone else’s expense, if you are Honor” your teachers who just died from Covid by continue infecting more people – ratzahta vegam-yerashta?
I did not hear Mr. biden speak, but from the newspaper description, he seems to be feeling like a gadol hador and starts talking accordingly giving short and clear daas, without a need to elaborate:
paraphrasing from memory:
“so, you will not stop sanctions on Iran right now?”
“no”
“but only if they stop developing nuclear weapons”
noddedWe used to have “Articulate” Presidents ….
Tristate, if you have so much info, could you please provide us with some numbers. Check with ALL, or a random sample, of people you know who got seriously sick recently, and then ask then whether they had a vaccine and when. Then, we can help you get estimates of how vaccine worked.
B’ Ezrat Hashem., I think in about a month it will be possible to analyze Israeli statistics and see effects of vaccine.
I hoped someone will explain to me why you are holding for daas Torah, instead you are claiming that it is just same as existed before. I do have to apologize to my teacher, for causing lashon hara thrown at him. I did not follow Ch Haim that one should not praise someone who is not 100% accepted tzadik as someone will contradict. Still, how someone can claim that daas Torah is included in traditional respect of chachamim and send a Holocaust survivor to China at the same time is beyond my understanding. But I digressed.
Maybe we can try to define what Daas Torah stands for … I would appreciate if you look at these references that others refer as suggesting using advice of others but still relying on sechel and mitzvot:
Gra, Mishley 16:4
Ruach Chaim Avos 2:7
Ha’amek Davar, Deut. 29:8
Netziv on Koheles 8:1
Iggeret Hakodesh of Baal HaTanya, Chap. 22.I see that economic issues are often solved but the expense of more important things….
Parents are exhausted and unhappy trying tp earn to pay for everything and children are not seeing Judaism as a happy thing … this is a repeat of how things were in this country in 1930s, albeit at a higher standard of living.
One solution for exhausted parents – send kids to an online school (public are available in many states, except where teachers unions block them – NY, NJ.., and there are inexpensive private), and then hire teachers to teach Jewish subjects to a small group of kids, or teach yourself. Now you have free time and can enjoy learning with your kids
>> If you want me to go fully bderech teva, then Most businesses do not succeed
This is exactly what I am saying – start a business and then daven.
>> in chinuch and have no heter to leave
Not sure why you are complaining then? Hashem wants you doing chinuch, he’ll take care of your cousins some other way… Ironically, seems like some people in chinuch spend more time thinking about money than people in some professions who spend their free time learning … A friend said that when he asked his son’s Rebbe to do more for the kid, the guy said – how can you expect me to spend some much on the kids when I am thinking how to feed my family and extra work I can do.
>> Hiring them when they are all over
there is lot of business that is done remotely. Sell on internet and let them run customer service. Let them teach/tutor some of your students remotely.
>> “asay lechoh rav”
thanks, that’s in the Mishna, my Rav knows that. “Daas Torah” (DT) is not the same and, as I mentioned, is no in the Gemorah. (if you think it is the same, you are doing DT wrong!).
I did not double-check Encyclopedia Talmudit myself, relying on what the Rav said, on his “daas Torah”, if you wish 🙂
So, seems like I am stuck in this paradox – my DT says there is no DT .. So, if I follow his DT, it is not binding. If I don’t follow his DT, then I am not following on his DT …
PS if you are afraid you are doing it wrong – here is material that might help fix your DT:
Wiki quotes Rav Shafran (pro) who admits taht the phrase is new but refers to other related concepts and Rav Nahum Rabinowitz Z”L against. Amazon has a 460 page book by Daniel Eidensohn of Daas Torah Hebrew sources ….I recall R Shimshon Hirsh married someone older and explained that he has too much to do and needs help right now, not when the wife grows up.
>> ask the own daas torah
this is a legit shailah, but what do I do in general?
My “daas Torah” does not believe in “daas Torah” (and points out to Encyclopedia Talmudit that the concept is not in the Gemorah)?
>> realize hypocrisy
So, we agree on facts. Maybe Hashem sent us AP to help deal with our problems.
In a similar case, Rav Shach writes that Arab hostility was helpful to early Zionists. Without it, they would go to University of Beirut and assimilated.
Shalom,
I did not research Ford-Morgenthau, but overlooking Poland’s faults in 1920s to stand to Soviets makes a lot of sense to me. There were a lot of very sincere Jewish politicians who were fighting Polish and Baltic governments disregarding Soviet/German threats. If you have specific problems with M report, please tell us. I think the report is somewhere online.There is a book published in 1960s in Israel by surviving Jewish politicians from Latvia who admit and lament their errors. One episode – USSR, Germany, all minority parties used League of Nations Charter to criticize those governments on their treatment of minorities. (League created these states after WW1). When Nazis came to power, some Jewish organization tried to go to the League, and the response was – sorry, we do not have German Jews registered as a minority, so we are not going to protect them.
>> many local businesses that are surviving the lockdown, Pandemic restriction by selling on Amazon
Indeed so. Note that amazon is not “getting rich” at the consumer expense. They are “non profit” last time I checked. Their riches come from investors who volunteer to give them money to expand their business.
The same as a nation deserves the leaders she elects, she also deserves the media it chooses to use.
Hashem sent us printing press, public libraries, telegraph, telephone, Morse code, radio. Americans decided to watch ABC and CNN.
Hashem then sent PCs, AOL, HTTP, FTP, USENET, AltaVista. We can now share GBs of information with millions of people in seconds. Can you imagine what Moshe Rabeinu would do with that?! Americans decided that they’ll get news from Twitter and FB.So, is it Twitter fault that people prefer being entertained?
Could the speakers clarify the levels here, as it is hard to follow
what is considered “money”? Parents
1. can get extra $10K for several years?
2. pay for downpayment for $500K apartment? (i.e. $100K)?
3. Being able to support growing family at $100K/year ad 120?what is considered “yichus”?
direct descendant of Melech David? R’ Kotler? minor yeshiva?
Could you afford a risk if father’s students do not wear masks? Could you get a life insurance on him?>> Pogroms in Poland
According to Wiki, President Wilson sent the commission to help clear up Jewish-Polish relations in order to strengthen Polish role against Soviets. At the same time, both Germany and USSR spent remaining time until they started WW2 accusing all newly created Eastern European countries of oppressing minorities (Jews, Germans, Russians, and others) – while totally destroying Jewish communities themselves. With that perspective, Morgenthau Sr performed great
>> but Biden would have done that [Embassy] too
Charlie, it is ironic that you – “with evidence” – accuse others of coming up with unfounded theories, and immediately post seemingly deluded ideas (“without evidence”). If you reflect on that a little, maybe you’ll become more understanding of others who do the same.
Jews are always in the spotlight. There is nothing new here.
Hashem wants the Jews to be an example to other nations. So, just act appropriately and enjoy the spotlight.Rav Salanter, I think, said that apikoires in Paris is due to insufficient diligence in the Litivishe yeshiva. I don’t know how he’ll respond to current situation
>> I’d love to have the ability
Try starting a business? and, then, daven for it to succeed. Or, just hire the cousins.
USPS?
How about Amazon One Hour delivery? You can drink and order same day. I know this clashes with another thread.My Gemorah suggests using stones
>> why he does not ask about Al-Aqsa,
Do you tremble (haredi) about the next Yom Ki Purim:
ashamnu?! bagadnu?! gazalnu?! look what the OTHER guy did FIRSTHow do you know Haman from Mordechai if they are both in a mask?!
As I referred above, I hope you still have 2 friends around you, then USPS for your remote relatives does not deter you from the mitzvah, and spend the rest on people who need help.
This is a great year to learn your priorities and separate d’Oraitos from heimishe minhagim. And learning to be meikil. If you learned in a yeshiva where they only teach the easy way – how to be machmir, you may want to call them and demand a free class on who to be meikil.
Internet is (so far) not censored in US of A. Trump and anyone else are able to create a website or maybe even a mailing list. The fact that the country depends on Twitter to focus voter attention is sad.