Always_Ask_Questions

RebE >> Tosfas in Tractate A’Z

These rulings might change over time and place? Chaucer describing varying level of frumkeit and hypocrisy of medieval non-Jews. Do we go my majority? Are we ok trading with cafeteria catholics but not with more observant ones?

Also, Protestants are post- R’ Tam – and probably prove his point that they do not really believe in a’z…

Also, I think you can discern among Ashkenazi/Sephardi Rishonim more tolerance towards the religion near them. Not sure whether this is caused by fear and censorship or by tolerance developed from familiarity

Syag,
sounds like you went to the same BY as some of my daughters, where “modern” was used as a generic put-down. There is no connection between O-O and Rav Soloveichik’s Torah. Whether his approach allowed some of his followers go into unreasonable positions is a legitimate question, of course.

MA, a good question

It is an interesting, and important, new question, that can be used to explore various aspects of learning and midot. We all follow many cultural norms, dressing nicely on Shabbos, getting up when a Rav comes in, or greeting people with a smile. Most people do it. We (collectively) spent hundreds of books about these topics. Here is a new issue on which “we” spent maybe hundreds of pages. I learn more about a person listening to his thoughts about masks, then asking about his subtle minhagim of sitting in a sukkah.

>> Is this the NY-Miami route that you’re flying?

I agree with Catch’s sentiment!

Maybe this have something do with NY, Jews being a significant subset of the whole?
You can either blame NYers or spirit for not preparing their staff for the NY attitudes.

I once interviewed w/ a consulting company that offered 2 tracks – NY and “the rest of the world”.
I asked whether I can interview for both. They said – no, these are two different worlds. Choose one.

Syag, I asked for input from your poskim and heard nothing back, except that you heard a Rabbi talking and di not quote anything from his thinkin. I brought multiple examples from my and other Rabbis. In terms of COVID, I am not doing anything that is not normative behavior by the Rabbis. They all wear masks in the street. Outside minyan is ran by a Rav. Having kids learn in online school was proposed by a Rav, while we were reluctant to do that. I think you are attacking a strawman here. It is easy to do, when we are just online avatars here.

Common, got it. To clarify, not to brag, CPCU makes you a local Rav in statistics, while my qualification is closer to a minor posek – developing and evaluating new statistical procedures. for example, when your training data (think, Pfizer Phase 3) is not the same as later real-life data. It does not mean I can do your job, of course (same as a yeshiva teacher may not be the best in running a local congregation). Furthermore, given your impressive qualifications, you could definitely apply them in defending your position. Maybe your false humility prevents you from using your skills.

And, back to paskening – your fear of modernishe tzudikim seems to prevent you to hear my arguments. I am calling you to dig deeper into your positions, and positions of your Rav/Posek, and I hear nothing in response.

Maybe an example below will help clarify that reasoning behind a teshuva is important:
1940, Jews in Vilno, most ran away from Poland, are sandwiched between Nazi and Soviet armies, the latter poised to enter Lithuania in a couple of months. The question was asked of R Grozdinski – should limited (Sugihara?) visas be given to older Rabbis (who will be quickly arrested by Soviets) or to younger Rabbis (whose children will be sent to Soviet school and lost). He answered – the older ones, with the explanation: (1) they will be better able to help the remaining ones when they reach US, (2) they’ll be of better use to American Jews. The explanation definitely focused the mind of those who asked and is something for us to ponder …

Ctlawyer, good – and it worked for them… some do understand. A priest I knew once got caught helping at the same time a Jewish organization and a group of proselytizers, all out of goodness of his heart. When he noticed a contradition, he asked a shaila from Catholic Chacham (who knew at least Mishna), he got the answer “whoever helps a Jew, get olam haba”, so he ditched the proselytizers. I am thinking he could have interpreted it as “saving Jewish soul” more important, but given that his own olam haba was at stake, he went for peshat.

I am not implying anything about your Rav. I am interested to hear his opinion and reasons.
I do have capacity and a degree (this is for Common, he only cares about certified opinions) to be able to process scientific literature and understand that there are a lot of unsafe things that can happen. We presented here lots of facts, not “modern orthodox” opinions. And we are not “ignoring rabbinical authority” as there are a lot of Rabbis of all flavors who pasken to be careful. I did not organize our outdoor minyan, a kollel-educated Rav did. Lakewoodish Rosh Kollel requires masks and wears one himself inside and outside. I also understand that there are trade-offs. One of them _might_ be based on what your congregation can handle.

But it goes to basic human nature: it seems that any human being would like to protect people around us. You are saying that your Rav says – no, you don’t have to, for whatever reasons. It sounds natural for you to ask – what is his reasoning, so you understand it and maybe explain to others, like us. And would he permit/advise you personally to be more careful? Seems like you are refusing to ask a shaila, not me.

common, you are attacking a strawman. I am not against expertise. We seem to disagree in these points:
1) you need to struggle to understand Torah according to your ability, not just outsource your halakhic decisions to an expert.

2) this especially concerns mitzvot bein adam l’havero and l’atzmo, as the answer depends on the person. So, if you don’t master some understanding, you’ll end up either asking shailos daily, or, more likely, applying right answers to wrong questions.

3) you need to be actually asking shailos- I don’t recall seeing here claiming they asked shailos about permission not to be careful during pandemic. or about permission to be careful if others are not.

>> kumran teffilin

I understand that Qumran artifacts are by sectarians, so may not be representative of Rabbinical tradition. Say, someone digs up a Reform temple with scarf and pink tefillin and use it to argue on Mishna Berurah.

Order R Pliskin’s book “Marriage” and you will get hundreds of real-life examples beating even the most ridiculous CR posts.

On limits to compromise: Kotzker asks why Hashem threw Emes to the ground (rather than Sholom) when there was a 2 against 2 machloket for creating a man? Witohut Emes, easy to do Sholom. Does not apply to home, I think, as the wife is always emes.

common, I agree with you on expertise. I am not sure whether we need to argue here. We seem to disagree though – you consider Torah learning akin to root canal. This is gross. I understand what you are saying that you want to ask hard question of someone more competent. I do not argue on that. This at the same time does take away your responsibility to understand the logic behind ruling, ask questions, and sometimes even to ask further. This is even true with the root canal. Your doctor should explain you the plan, answer your questions, and occasionally change it based on your input.

Re: progressive taxation.
1894 US debate on income tax referred to Biblical source of 10% income tax, and after that used their testament to argue for progressive tax – exempting first $4,000 of income. In practical terms, it made tax very popular and easy to pass as most people were fully exempt. The opponents referred to “not stealing and Rehovoam excessive taxation.

ujm >> presumably, you know the source for Emunas Chachamim.

In a Baraita in a list after Derech Eretz and a good heart? I would refer you to 2007 Essay by R Nachum Rabinowitch “What is “Emunat Ḥakhamim” where he defines Emunas Chachamim to include a very respectful attitude towards halakhic rulings, and a requirement to understand the reasoning behind them, as the individual himself remains responsible for his action (more so in divrei reshut, if I understand him correctly). Many people use Daas Torah somewhat differently. I am not learned enough to know whether Chasam Sofer meant that.

It is also not my intention to analyze Arizal, I’m busy understanding pshat to be so presumptuous to weigh on kabbalah. I thought you asked that question. Unless there are tw2o ujms here (maybe a sitra aherah?).

>> no progressive income tax.

here are a couple of principles I can glean from Bava Basra –
1) taxes should preferably be allocated according to the benefit: paying for the wall may be according to number of people, level of danger, etc. That is, when possible, use “user fees”. For example, gasoline tax or turnpike fees look better than income tax – as long as they pay for the roads themselves.

2) apply wisdom, if possible, and use majority if not. A case of a guild who limited competition and then cut the skins of those who broke the rules. They are told that they should go to a Talmid Chacham in their city. If there is none, they are ok to follow majority.

Common, >> secular education down the throats… Satmar Rebbe Shilta sat side by side.

good example – does it mean they’ll tell everyone to not get secular education? Long ago, one person was invited by the Satmar Rebbe to be a doctor during a yom tov. When they had a minute to talk, he volunteered that he is not just a doctor, that he is getting a semicha soon … The response was – besser rofeh cholim mimatir asurim … Maybe the semicha was too modernishe, but still

Common: Imagine if Trump did that what ENS, AAQ, Charlie Hall and the rest would be saying

Common, your argument can be extended further: list all crimes that Trump was not proven of, despite everyone from NY to Peter Shtup investingating? With what we now know about NY gov, I presume he made a couple of calls encouraging such investigators. With the business and private life Trump had, you have to be a tzaddik gamur, not to have anything found in almost 6 years already. Latest I read in a lib rag that someone wants to compel son of Trump’s accountant to cooperate based on him not paying taxes when Trump let the guy live on his property for free.
I had to double-check whether the article was not about Jimmy Carter or Mother Teresa

>> Tur and Shulchan Aruch long preceded Chasidus.

There are Chasidim all over Gemorah. It is like “liberals” and old-time “Liberals”….Even then, they did not always lived to the name. The one in Bava Basra 7b built a gate house and poor would not come to him (your theme, Charlie!), so Eliahu stopped coming.

by the way, could someone help me answer a basic question about this – did not the Chasid realize that he was wrong after Eliahu stopped coming?! If yes, did not he take the gate house down?! If yes, sounds like Eliahu still did not come back?! Does it mean that the character flaw of not thinking what could happen is that great?

>> much more generous welfare state.

Not always. It is somewhat hard to compare policies across mutiple times and income levels, but again we have arguments for being generous and for having limits:
We have an argument that even a poor person has to have Pesach wine EVEN MIN hatamhui! usually, a person is eligible for public food if he does not have food for 2 meals. [similar to medicaid requirement to have no more than $2,000 or something like that]. At other times, a person “should make his shabbat like chol” but not ask for support. At the swame time, we are supposed to maintain a rich person at his level (this sounds like a distinction between unemployment and welfare).

THere are several agadot, I think in Bava Kamma, about poor people asking for “stuffed chicken”, one does not get it, is offered same beans as Rav (?) himself is eating and dies fromn it. In the other case, Rav(?)’s sister arrives at that very moment from far away and brings a “stuffed chicken” with her.

I thin this is “complicated”

I obviously don’t know who the author is, but if his occupation is Toirah Learning (as implied by “bein hazmanim” reference), then where did the minhag of taking vacations start? I understand that bein hazmanim in Gemorah referred to a need to go home and work the field.

Netziv was convinced by family and doctors to take a vacation on Lithuanian lakes. He ran away back home from boredom. Rav Salanter did go to the “waters”, but did not eat mehadrin on the way because he was using OPM (other people’s money). This would not apply if you earn your own money, of course.

Charlie >> Regarding business conduct the Torah is arguably to the left of Bernie Sanders

This is an interesting topic. You can find both pro-business and pro-worker laws in the Torah. Obviously, and Can we be more specific with the claims?
for example, we have a Gemora how Talmidei Chachamim tried to ban yetzer hara when coming back from Bavel (Sanhedrin 64)- and caused a chicken recession. We see here that yes we want people to not follow their own interest and desires, but economy is not working without it. A pro-business President Coolidge said something similar to his wife, but this is a family website.

Rav Huna had some ideas about helping poor (Taanit 20b): he would break dangerous walls. If the owner could afford it, he would have to rebuild himself. If not, R Huna would (not sure, whether it means as his private charity or community funds). More interesting is his approach to an imperfect market where farmers bring food into the city. He did not buy food to feed the poor so they would not rely on him. Instead, he would pay farmers for left-over food and send it down the river. That is, farmers are not afraid to bring more food and, thus, there will be more competition and poor will get cheaper food. So, he worried about helping poor, keeping them independent, and making economy better.

Common, you are right, I probably last been in Lakewood when R Wachtfogel Z’L was alive. I do keep us with the new. but in this case seeing is probably better than hearing indeed. So, thanks for assuring me that these were not yeshiva-connected people who did not listen to Roshei Yeshivot, but some Brooklyn transplants.

MadeAliya > Interesting idea, but I personally prefer to be open about my bias.

Agree. This is 2nd best thing to trying to question your bias.

> Israeli right-wing parties are conservative but not libertarian.

Also, agree. Bibi is probably the first pro-business PM, previous Likudniks were on the right politically
but still reasonably pro-government on economics.

Syag: unless you literally cut yourself off from all living beings, you probably got it somewhere in the following 12 months. Stop thinking everyone who got covid was negligent or ignorant

I am absolutely not claiming that everyone who got sick is at fault. And it is obvious that people have different circumstances – some taking care of patients or relatives, some send kids to grandparents because there is nowhere else to go, etc. At the same time, I am rejecting your fatalism that if it is dangerous out there, then we should give up on precautions. If I understand your description, you people are not very careful, then some of the sick people are due to your being not careful. You semi-acknowledge that those in your area who were slightly more careful got it a year later. This is, of course, already a great thing, as you are saying – as medical treatment now is better, about half of people getting sick a year later will pass away.. it is a big difference.

Emes>> As the Republican party refuses to deal with climate change

What is your position on green nuclear energy? It should be able to save the world.