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Re: mashgiach. So those here who sucked us into endless discussions about talmidei chachamim requiring exemptions do not agree with the esteemed rav, who clearly articulates that this is a social position for the whole charedi community.
Ujm, Sorry, didn’t reply to your post before. On those who walk bareheaded, I am all for helping them out and I am all for organizations and individuals who help them. I don’t think berating them would work.
As for fedora, my family minhag is to dress up like respectful members of current society, so I have no problem with others doing the same. My great greatzeidi dressed like a Vienna businessman, and I dress as a Midwestern businessman and it is all fine.
Akuperma > capitulation (surrender, being chased out like a scared dog with his tail between his legs) from Afghanistan led to both the Iranian sponsored Hamas attack on Oct. 7, as well as Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
I agree, except the order of events, hamas coming last. What is most sad is apparent lack of introspection, doubling down on the same failing approaches. Americans were never strong on foresight, but they generally “do the right thing after exhausting all other options “. In this case, nothing short of losing election will change their attitude. This might work out in a long term, but too late for do many lives lost and strategic losses.
Yechiell, President Biden and his team definitely want to do good, but they are limited by their lack of intellectual abilities and their desire to do well, not just good. They sometimes succeed in battles against other politicians, passing laws distributing money according to their desires, but they have less success when confronting smart enemies, thus mostly failures in international affairs. They can’t even fashion money giveaways to their supporters to avoid obvious rulings from the Supreme Court. Compare complexity of Obama care with straightforward message of student loan forgiveness, there is no way that even peace-loving justice could interpret it as tax or something… so should we give them credit for good intentions and whatever good they were able under those intentions? Yes. But at the same time, we need to admit that they can’t acknowledge failures of their theories towards Chinese/Russians/Iranians/Talibs/inflation/natural gas ….
> . Yes those ppl should not have gone to meron as it is a sakana but to push an old man
Not commenting on your otherwise vile language, and not condoning police behavior also, but mi tzad hadin, a man putting himself in sakana gets malkus and that is what he got min hashamayim, and putting others, police, in the same makom sakana is really a rotzeach and probably loses protection min hashamayim, so he should accept the yisurin he suffered like r Eliezer did after he led to an arrest and murder of a yid, who turned out to be deserving the punishment.
I didn’t know ywn started putting party ads as regular articles.
Do such ads pay more than regular ones?Speaking of lag bomer, I am not sure whether we are achieving any tikkun for the hesronos or akivas students by not shaving for about 24 extra days, 1 per thousand? Maybe, instead or in addition, we should accept upon ourselves to be respectful to other opinions for whole 49 days?
Interesting mention of opposition to daf yomi based on more traditional strictures, like hevros tehilim/mishnayim/etc
It seems that pro-daf rabonim (not just R Shapiro, but those before and those who followed) responded to the needs of emerging modern Yid who is exposed to newspapers/philosophy/literature/techology/science, while those against were guarding the innocent balabatim. So, both might have been right for different countries and communities. This is similar how R Salanter marveled at shiurim in Germany where ladies showed up to listen. He said – if I were to do this in Lita, I’ll be kicked out.
sechel > Who says one should skip all the hachanos, and just say words with minimal kavanah in order to beet chatzos?
Beating chatzos does not sound like a high bar, and I don’t mean beet salad bar. But by that thinking, why not wait till tomorrow,
maybe you’ll have a better kavona then? I would rather accept an explanation that Chabad House visitors will be more comfortable waking up late or that a town needs a late minyan for anyone whose kavona woke up by chatzos or has a hangover. Or, as one Chabadnik told me (he started before hatzos but dragged the process well past) – “who knows where are these guys are going to go if I don’t keep them here.”Arso > The word idiot may indeed come from the Greek equivalent, but when it’s used by Chazal it doesn’t mean idiot.
Greek idiots seems to be similar to Hebrew amei haaretz – citizens, but not being active in politics and possibly lacking manners. So kohen idiot was proper greek borrowing.
Moving to Latin, it was more on uneducated and lacking derech eretz, and French & English made idiots what they are today.
Btw do NOT google for kohen idiot, it brings up a non-kosher witness at a current trial, R’L
How about going an extra kilometer and avoid having mishtara deployed to confront you when they have an enemy to fight or maybe get a day off… it is the least you can do especially if you claim learning full time (except when going places you should not)
Sechel, Rambam writes for those who have limited capacity to process information, and he suggests his sefer. I do agree that there is audience for this in our times. At the same time, we have now lots of people who are capable of processing complex information in secular context and they can and should access Torah at the same level. Some of such modern sources are somewhat partial to a specific approach to modernity, whether yeshivish, modernish, zionist or chabad perspective. Learning gemora directly gives background that is less biased. And daf ensures that you get all pages, not selected by someone
sechel > nd even if you dont understand everything, you can go further in rambam
WADR to Rambam, (Bavli) Gemora learning teaches how to deal with incomplete and contradictory information, so it might prepare you better to CR arguments
The sentiment that “baal batim” should learn something simple is somewhat outdated, at least does not apply to everyone. We discussed this in threads on ladies learning Gemora. Kal vehomer, this applies to men.
Some of the “BB” in our days are lawyers, doctors, engineers, politicians … They (a) have access to sophisticated information about other aspects of life (b) need to know how to answer numerous apikoiresim they encounter (c) are capable of learning complex things. It is probably obvious that they should not start with Daf of course, but rather first learn how to learn slower and in depth.
Another aspect – Gemora is a tool to be applied to current environment. Given how different current social and business environment is from the one in Gemora, learned BBim are the ones who can help apply Gemora method to current times, including being advisors to poskim or local Rabbis on issues that require expertise in medicine/science/business/psychology. For example, myu local hareidy rabanut reached out to a local charedi epidemiologist when covid started and his zooms were a hit with the charedi public as they could relate to him. Similarly, R Soloveichik justifies (b’dieved, in his words) opening YU Medical school, saying that we need doctors who are at least exposed to Yiddishkeit and can better relate to observant patients.
> should learn chitas
with all due respect to the components of chitas, I did not know that proselytizing is allowed here.
Frumguy,
thanks, this should be publicized. Seems so many people pay cash and do not know that it is legal!Now we understand why megilah refers to jews as chachamim yodea itim – because Persians still don’t. They went against a Mishnah, organizing prayers after the crash, after the rasha went to gehinom already. Next time, they should daven before the crash. NK should teach them tefilas haderech
> what do you think of daf yomi?
Hard to think about daf yomi, as when you just start thinking about the daf, you are already on the next one!
There is a lot to criticize about the daf, but here are the positives:
1) covering whole material, rather than someone’s favorite pages. You get a feeling for breadth of the material and amoraic interests and expertise.
2) You see how ethical behavior is naturally embedded in halachic thinking
3) you see how involved Rabonim were in minute details of donkey rental (current page). You will not misquote siyum of Kiddushin claiming that the only possible occupation is learning after you read about what businesses Rab bis were involved in – and how a Talmid Chacham needs to be more careful in business (like not doing something that looks like ribis that is allowed for others)
4) If you are trying to memorize all halachic discussions, you are probably not doing it right. BUT, various logical arguments, halachic, ethical positions are stated multiple times. Not only you can remember them, you will understand them better when you see similar ideas in different context.
5) You don’t need to think hard what to learn the next day, the page turns by itself.
This is easy to test – look at your posts 216 days ago and see if you are thinking better now.
ironically, lapis specularis was mined in Spain (Hispania) and sold in Rome in 1st cent CE and was forgotten after that when regular glass was invented. So, it was forgotten during Rambam times and found again by archeologists in 1700s … So, this might give us a good time frame for the word – 1st century CE.
jackk > Is it called humbleness when all I have learned is to never bet against Trump?
you are even humble about your humbleness!
> I do not play the market.
Of course, you won’t admit it now!
Avira > their presence and their dress might serve as examples for these kids that you could be super religious and fit their twisted political agendas that they were indoctrinated with in school, which could be a stepping stone to yiddishkeit.
More likely 90% of sane kids on campus will get turned off with such “yiddishkeit”, then they’ll search online and see that some “frum” people keep similar views in CR and H’V will never look again, unless some Chabadnik meets them.
Avira > if crazy people tell others to play in traffic, they’re just nuts; they’re not apikorsim.
There are so many halochos violated by suich behavior, they may not be apikoirisim, but they would not be “observant” peple either
How do vouchers work out for the community? Do they fully cover tuition or in part? Do schools need to certify that they are teaching yinglish? does it change variety of schools and power relationship between parents and school principals?
yankel > Dina de malhuta dina in EY nowadays is a mahloket – NOT like katan wants you to believe.
You have a good point. We have Talmidei Chachomim in our times having very divergent views on the topic. It is fine, I think, for us to discuss strength of competing views but it is not possible to declare any of the acceptable views as A’Z and similar, implying that some observant and learned Jews are guilty, H’V, of A’Z. The mods here are pretty good at flagging inappropriate attitudes towards some T’Ch, but not towards all of them. I was not aware that halochos of LH and similar depends on whether a T’Ch in yeshivish/chasiddish/modern/torah-moddaic/dati leumi, etc.
coffee> people that voted for Biden couldn’t have known that he would backstab Israel
Biden’s propensity to take wrong positions on international politics is well documented. True, one could not guess where he would go wrong – on Israel, Afghanistan, Russia, China or Iran. The perfect 5 out of 5 score that he has so far may not have been fully predictable, but at least 2 or 3 out of 5 was obvious. Whoever excused himself to roll this dice has no excuse.
jackk, your loss in shorting the shares is worth your gain in humbleness
HaKatan, kings of Israel (as opposite of Yehuda) were self-appointed, starting with a Reaganesque revolt against high taxes by an unpopular King.
Maybe there is some common ground between the sides here: Chachomim could use lashon used in their times in Greek culture to express their position. It may be agreeing with something, or using the Greek form but changing context to the Jewish one.
In this particular case, Diogenes Laertius records a 4th-hand story: Hermippus in his Lives refers to Thales the story which is told by some of Socrates, namely, that he used to say there were three blessings for which he was grateful ….
Right after that, DL quotes a story about Thales that might be of use for many: It is said that once, when he was taken out of doors by an old woman in order that he might observe the stars, he fell into a ditch, and his cry for help drew from the old woman the retort, “How can you expect to know all about the heavens, Thales, when you cannot even see what is just before your feet?”
R Meir lived 50-100 years before Diogenes Laertius
and probably Baraita’s attribution to R Meir is more accurate than Diogenes Laertius attribution to Socrates unless there are other sources. Also, see reverse order. Greeks start w/ ignoramusGadolHadofi> stop trying to confuse Joseph with the facts.
Thanks for your concern for the maeha, but I don’t think I am overwhelming him. He has koyach to stand up and ignore any adverse facts.
> Moshe Rabbeinu wore a shtreimel.
Jews have no problem changing their clothes. Just look at sephardi youth in Lakewood and other towns – they wear black cylinders and fully abandoned their traditional turbans and kefyiahs (which may be a good decision in current political environment). Why are they so quick to abandon their traditions? And why are their Ashkenazi bruders not telling them to keep their indigenous traditions? An Iraqi dresssing up as a Litvish is as funny as a Yekke dressing up as a Ungarishe.
Pls keep reform out of this discussion, this is a misdirection. Many charedi takanot that protect people from improper influences have good social reasons behind them, but this is not we are talking about.
I’ve seen lots of photos of observant Jews from Lithuania to Iraq. Most of them dressed similarly to their gentile neighbors. In some cases, they are dressed more on respectable side. Sephardi “gedolim” sometimes dressed more extravagant, but these were individuals. Most of people worked in whatever jobs they were able to obtain under restrictions imposed on us. Volozhin yeshiva had 400 students. Most Yidden did not expect other Yidden to pay for their learning and did not collect from non-Jewish welfare funds.
Charedim didn’t live under Ottomans, Jews did. None of them dressed like modern Charedim. And they were supported by other jews who volunteered to support them. They worked when they were allowed to. Newcomers charedim started demanding money from the government and are now endangering good relationships with the malchus that was indeed established over centuries.
With this attitude, whether you are right or wrong, you should simply try to distance yourself from those you do not want to be brothers with.
If you don’t like to live under Zionist regime, you are free to move to Islamic enclaves where you can live your dream-life as a dhimmi, who are not required to serve in the Muslim army. If you prefer not to move for whatever reason, you should similarly accept dina d’malchusa with whatever laws they make. If you prefer to be in prison, fine. Although if many will do it, they might be simply shipped out to PA, so you may as well do it on your own.Rocky,
it is perfectly legit and reasonable to first articulate what is an ideal halachik position, and then consider compromises with others (imperfect phrasing, as compromising with others should be done under halachik guidelines too, of course). So, presume majority of knesset members are shomer shabbat and baalei halakha – what should they do?If they decide that talmidei chachamim need to be excluded, I would think they’ll define criteria (and maybe timeframes). I doubt these criteria will be based on headwear, or who your zeidi was. Rabbi in Bava Basra asks poor people what they learned to give them food during a drought (and his students refuses to answer). It would probably be a higher bar to get this privilege. So, maybe a monthly test on what you learned?
Kuvult, so maybe as a public service, we should post here which matzos were whole and good. Like mentioned above, I found Ukrainian matzos under R Kamenetsky hashgoha pretty good and almost all whole. On thinner and overdone side.
there is a trade-off here: you can easily make matza thick and hard as cement and totally unbreakable – and inedible!
Maybe, having fragile tasty matzah with some chance of breakage is worth it.> bringing to the gentiles the Torah’s indisputable message that Zionism is not Judaism
This sounds like a fourth oath, not included in the first three, like the 5th department in the tefilin.
Jackk can’t go to the protests as police might arrest him.. Trump media is going after alleged illegal short selling of djt.
Hopefully Jack will be able to point to the ywn posts to prove that he did it out of sinat hinam with no financial goals. Djt $48+
ujm zogt twice> I don’t know who he is or, better, who he is to disagree with Chazal.
He wrote Torah once – and in a better shape than all Torahs written by his teacher R Huna .. He can also be found in Kiddushin 29 in support of argument between chachamim who thinks a person’s learning has precedence over his son and R Yehudah who thinks a son with an active mind (zariz) and whose Torah will endure has precedence. His story proves that the father should not work overtime to pay tuition for his less sharp children. So, sharpness and endurance are confirmed as factors in learning precedence. And of course, none of them suggested for both father & son to go learn and get supported by a combination of taxes and miracles.
As to your list of Bnei Torah, I am very happy to see anyone sitting and learning as long as he figured out how to do it in an ehrliche way – whether use his inheritance, or to eat and drink less, or to have a willing shver or eshes chail or an Issachar. If US government announces tomorrow that they will support all Torah learners should be paid life-long fellowships and this system is accepted by population, I might sit and learn full time myself. I would probably convince the sponsors that research in AI is an extension is included as an extension of Gemora sevora so that I continue doing some of my research also 🙂
If you zoche, you will get 3 whole matzas.
If you understand the value of mitzvos and hiddur thereof, you will buy enough boxes to ensure having 4-5 whole matzos.
If you swift as a tzvi you will buy them in tishri and have enough time to return
If you are smart as a fox, you will buy them on amazon and return for frei.If you are an erliche yid, you will do business with other ehriche yidden whose inside of the box is the same as the picture on the outside (3 whole matzas).
To quote Chacham Henrich Heine: it is impossible to live a life without trusting anyone, but you can live a reasonable life if you don’t let the same person to cheat you twice.> isn’t limited to abilities.
R Aha b Yaakov, I think, had a different opinion. He sent his son to learn for a year, then tested him, and left the son to work the fields, and he went himself …
You are also hijacking the word “Limud Torah” and same in English “learning” to become a synonym for “not working”. Shuls used to have groups doing tehilim/learning mishna/learning gemora, you choose the one you fit in. In our times, one can work and afford ArtScroll or simply use sefaria and YWN to learn after work. With work from home, you can take 15 minutes out of each hour to work and learn for 16 hours and have 20 hours a week job.
Are you saying that anyone who is willing to sit in beis medrash or thereabout whole day without much effect on the learning and middos is deserving community support, army exemption, etc? I would agree, provided full agreement by the providers. Possibly parents or in-laws could do that, and it is great, but I don’t think Israeli taxpayers do.
Doing, great description of learning.. I wish we had a way to Quantify that description. Some sort of a standardized test that measures the learning itself or even effect of the learning on the cognitive abilities in general. This would be a great thing to demonstrate to others and also of help to the learners themselves. For example, you can do a practice sat test and see evaluation in different skills
Lernt, it looks like a lot of people agree that it was a nes and we should acknowledge it. There might be disagreement between different groups with each claiming that it was their zechus of learning/chesed/army … As they say success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan.
Following this line, there might be a change in our zechuyos after Simchas Torah… Maybe we can compare the list of those who claim nes is due to them with a list of those who said that Simchas Torah was due to their aveiros and did teshuva. There were indeed people who showed more achdus than before, and so we should double down on that. I don’t want to start guessing specific examples, as I am sure someone will get offended and the opposite will be achieved.
> I know none.
Kuvult, there is actually a chassidishe niggun with either russian or ukrainian words, not sure, “there is none, none” but then continues “except Hashem Ehad” … “I am not afraid of no one and believe in no one ” …. “except Hashem ehad”. Maybe the pause was to full the commissar spies?DJT 58% up from 2 days ago. Jackkk is so smart not shorting. I admire the high quality of his indecision. This investing policy is a classic shev velotaaseh.
Channeling my inner Jackkkk: DJT is up 45% in the last day. Still difficult to short?
CS, there is no iron curtain around NYS, take a bus west if you are not happy.
Rocky, why not modify it to show ahavas for the other Yidden and go out and support them? _if_ the mitzva of talmud torah does not apply during bein hazmanim, why not do other mitzvos at that time.
> Why do you think that citing an open Chazal
because I asked what are opinions and you are quoting one, even as presumably you know more. I don’t know why someone will talk like that. Why not mention judges who are strict in applying halocha (Bava Metzia) or Gittin or Nedorim or kohanim fighting in Tosefta?