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TLIK > There is no halacha that a boy should be dependent long term on anyone
> pay far more attention to … money related issuesmaybe these issues are connected? If the man is not capable (taught) to earn a living, then he has to rely on the shver. This might have been reasonable in the 19th century Pale, but, from basic principles, most people should be able to have a decent job or business and be able to learn without relying on family, community, or government welfare.
Could it be an unintentional result of the success? Keeping community apart from society undoubtfully helped to keep Jewish community intact through European haskalah, American melting pot, and Israeli hiloniyut. But the closed communities lost a lot of basic Jewish values while trying to survive. This is akin to side effect of medicine.
>> she can be a Rebbetzin before getting married as Vashti argued that she was a queen before marrying Achashverus.
indeed, Esther became Mordechai’s Rebbe, and her husband was not just not a Rav or Rebetzin, but mamash a goy.
I agree – there is no reason to check references. I never checked them for any of my wives, and they all had wonderful personalities.
We had a discussion earlier whether Warp Speed was important for vaccine succes. Hard to argue alternative history. Now, Curevac vaccine is in the news and provides an answer: it seems to be another German pioneer company that was looking at RNA vaccines 7-10 years before BionTech Moderna. They are finishing Phase 3 in Mid-May, 6 months behind others. Here are events according to the NYT service article:
– they first got … $15 mln of funding .. considerable amount of cash was not there.
– March 2020: Trump tries to pay them $1 BLN. CEO resigns … (sounds like he was interested)
– June 2020: Germany invests $360 mln (3x less of Trump’s initial offer)
note that German government already knew amount of investment in US and Phizer/Moderan already starting phase 3
– Dec 2020: starts Phase 3 trial …It is clear from this narrative that American business approach mattered, we can’t fully differentiate between role of warp speed, general R&D approach, business initiative, presumably each played a role.
Of course, Biden administration found their “niche” – rather than assisting those great companies, taking their IP by force and give it away. Praying that this will produce good results.
Maybe it is mida k’neged mida for Pfizer CEO for, possibly, delyaing phase 3 results until after the elections. Thought he was smart, but Biden is smarter!
>> Under Reagan. we had the highest deficit at that time,
RebE, please define “we”. I am sure you were managing. _Government_ had deficit because they returned money to the people and spent some to affect the world. What did we get for that money? We freed (a large part of) the world from Communism, taking away major supplier of sonei israel in the middle east; leading to ~ 2 mln Jews to leaving USSR; freeing whole Eastern Europe. All these millions of freed people surely increased demand eventually!
yutorah as a list of different speakers on the daf, many are fast, but maybe some fit your requirements
businesshalacha has a list of shiurimMaybe, we should have candidates signing their plans under oath. While Mr. Biden publicly denied progressive plans in the debates, now Bidenistas point out that all these policies were somewhere on the website, so why are we surprised…
>> Isn’t this something that young adults do for themselves?
We are surrounded by te society where people generally can not figure it out for themselves, so this is something that Jewish community is rightly focusing on. Head in a class on giur, that there is a subgroup of non-Jewish women who convert because they see the beauty of Jewish attitude towards families.
RebE >> Supply side economics, voodoo economics, has been shown that it does not work.
I think a lot of proofs are heavy on rhetoric. First, a strawman (or an exaggerated claim of pro-suppliers): reducing taxes will increase collected taxes (quickly). Then, you can show that this is rarely true. this is, of course, is a crude logic of a roman tax-collector – how much can I farm from people?
In truth, the first question is simply – would society be more productive with less taxes. According to wiki, Greg Mankiw _criticizes_ suppliers saying – ” “Tax cuts rarely pay for themselves… about one-third of the cost of a typical tax cut is recouped with faster economic growth”
In plain Yinglish, this means that if government returns $100 to the taxpayers, taxpayers will generate $133 from it. Or, if gov takes $100, it leads to a collective loss of $33 ….
Given that government spends almost 40% of US GDP, we are talking serious money lost here …Can you suggest _any_ policy that can help poor without throwing away 1/3 of it? (and 1/3 is average, the worst of policies are even less efficient)
then, it should be implemented before doing what we are doing now.PS to conclude, this may depend on the status of both speaker and listener. If speaker can be assured that listener will understand him correctly, then he can say it.
Maybe what people are bothered here is a slight for the human tragedy in favor of a theological explanation. As in Yoma 23, where one Kohen stubs another while competing for a job, and the father of the dying one says – look, he is still alive, so if you take the knife out now, it will be tahor. Next question – did they take tahora very seriously, or did tey take murder too lightly? A similar question may be asked for someone using a korbon comparison – the speaker may be trying to elevate, but he runs a risk of sounding callous.
if you can download a file of the shiur, many players will allow you changing the speed of playing it. I think VLC does
> Why is the inequality between the rich and the poor constantly growing?
maybe it seems so because we all are becoming richer and also have more access to information?
also, you may be looking at most recent events:
Indeed, According to ourworld of data income inequality, income of top 1% in UK was 20% of GDP in 1918, went slowly down to 5% in 1980 and back to 15% in 2005, fell to 12% in 2009. In US, it was 20% in 1920s, went down to 11% in 1977, and went up to 20% in 80s and 90s and stays there. Other former British countries show similar pattern in the 20s century with the bottom at 1980.
France, Japan, Spain, Denmark peaked in 1920s at 20-25%, went down to 5-10% in 1940 and stayed there. I wonder how much inequality decreased after USSR disintegrated and communists started owning a lot of things openly, instead of keeping it all secretly.what about longer history? Gini index in UK stayed between 40 and 50 between 1700 and 1910, lowered to 25 in 1977 and went up to 35 in 1995 and stayed there
a quick search shows estimates that Augustus owned 20% of Roman Empire, Genghis Khan and Chinese emperor Shenzong owned 30% of world GDP.
so, things are much better now.
RebE >> Some states care and others don’t. what should the Federal government do?
by Reb Adam Smith, free enterprise is good by definition as every exchange is considered beneficial for both sides. If you destroy the freedom premise, you destroy this underlying guarantee of success.
except the most egregious cases, many Americans can – and do – vote with their feet. So, you can be in a state that taxes and distributes profits and provides free health care. There will be some moral hazard though – businesses will move to other states and people who want services will move to yours. So, you may want to establish some residency requirements – no welfare for first 3 years in a state. Most of people in your state will be happy with your policies and you will be re-elected with 90% of votes. Those who don’t like it will move to another state.
Alternatively, you can try to take over federal government and force your love onto 50% of population that disagrees with you.
I can understand the taavah (and gaavah) that socialists and progressives had 100 years ago when they wanted to immediately save the world by taking over countries. But, by now, you should be humble enough to know that not every good-sounding idea works, so why not try it in some states?
I think the same idea works for Jews, as a nation. We are to show other nations that with Torah, we can build a great society, both respecting working people and helping poor, so that they can learn and emulate us וְאָֽמְר֗וּ רַ֚ק עַם־חָכָ֣ם וְנָב֔וֹן הַגּ֥וֹי הַגָּד֖וֹל הַזֶּֽה:
paticipant, look up Radak on naarim ketanim from Yericho confronting Elisha
Maybe exact level of fairness is unsolvable. How about some basic principles:
– we get government involved only when there is no free enterprise solution
– we get federal gov involved only when this issue is not solvable by states
– when we get gov involved, we try not to destroy free enterprise
– we solve problems of higher priority first. Save people before penguins. Deal with commies before killing oil productions.I think we can agree on a lot of things as long as we liit ourselves to such basic limitations
>> If these communities are so welcoming to newly observant outsiders, I definitely will give them a look before I settle down.
I understood the story that they presented themselves as regular members of the community moving from another country, not newly observant. Maybe I misunderstood.
participant – lack of headwear: a lot of hair – Eliahu, lack of hair – Elisha, eaten by bears – member of trade union.
>> a’ you should listen to a random person
> random person in the Yeshiva World coffee room is not the gadolMi hu haham? halomed mikol adam, that’s YWN! And – as we learned in another thread – haham gadol mirav …(ve adif minavi)
on a more serious note: if your parents are not giving you their opinion – maybe they don’t want to push you one way or another. Maybe ask them, or grandparents/uncles, more open-ended questions – what does it mean to be ready/ not ready in your circles? be able to support family? graduate degree? emotionally stable? become tired of learning? when did people in your family get married and how they feel about it later?
choosid > If your rebbe says one way, Gadol says another….then mistama’ you should listen to a random person
I am not sure why people are asking oorim vetumim, or maybe answering. I am surprised why the adults did not explain the rational for their advice. If they did, he could have something to think about. So, he can at least get ideas to explore here, or go back to his parents/teachers and ask for more details.
PS Usual reason not to give reasons is to make the person follow the rule without an ability to apply his biases and get away from the ruling.
participant, sorry for being so slow, that is your question!
I am only using headwear here to presume ethnicity. I would not say call someone Haham just because he wears a turban more than I’ll call someone a Rav because he has a black hat or a Professor because he wears a jacket. Your question goes to R Yannai who invited a person who was dressed like a haver, but did not know how to say a brocho, but still claimed Torah as morasha
huju, Bill Clinton also promised to build a bridge to 21st century … I sometimes wonder how many people would be rushing to take that bridge back to the 20th
Why would an Ashkenazi wear a turban except on Purim? Rabbis of Talmud and Koen godol wore it, but Ashkenazim seem to lose the traditional dress and switch to more European one.
Interestingly, Muslims made dhimmis wear a yellow turban or patch, and then Christians retaliated by making Muslims and Jews wear yellow or red patches .. Seems like in places where Jews continued wearing turban, it was enough for Europeans. But Ashkenazim had to wear patches and also pointed hats. Then, in 17th century both non-Jews and Jews in Eastern Europe/Poland wore shtreimels. Later, Poles switch to new French fashions, and shterimels became fully Jewish.
After Khmelnitsky, Jews running away from Ukraine to Germany made shtreimels more popular there. Interestingly, a 1942 The “Jewish Hat” as an Aspect of Social History
by Raphael Straus claims that emphasis on covering head all the time was connected (maybe in some places?) with Shabbatai Tzvi movementParticipant, maybe I did not travel much lately, but I never met a turban-clad Ashkenazi Rav except on Purim. Rabbis of Bavli and Kohen Godol were earing it, but Ashkenazim seem to have lost the tradition here. Maybe Ashkenazim in Tzefat were wearing turbans?
interestingly, early Muslims required dhimmis to wear yellow patches/yellow turbans, and possibly Christians introduced similar distinct dress for Jews and Muslims as a response.
Asag > flat tax – Why wouldn’t that be fair?
flat tax has an allure of simplicity and looks fair, but really is not. It still takes more money from some people than from others. It also leaves unclear what is considered an income. Are people taxed for doing things themselves, such as washing their own dishes and teaching their own kids, for example?
I do not see anyone in this thread defining their definition of appropriate taxes and support of poor.
We are using our own feelings for what is appropriate and this leads to disagreements…We have certain criteria in halakha who qualifies for tamhui and other types of charity. I am not sure how the criteria change with the changes in wealth of the community… was charity different in Mehuza? Can we try deriving specific rules that can help understand what is appropriate in our times, when we are on average richer than in Mehuza?
participant> rabbi wearing a turban you call him haham, on the other thread a rabbi is “ram
sorry, just saw you complaining that I did not reply. It does look hypocritical for me to be called AAQ and then ignore questions! I am not sure what is the question though – Sephardi Rabbis have an official title “Haham”. The joke is a pun on that. Wiki explains that this is because Muslim consider “Rab” to be a shem Hashem.
I personally prefer R Nathan Kamenetsky’s use of “R” that he invited the reader to imagine any way they want – Rav, Rabbi, Rebbe, Rabban, Rabeinu, Rosh Golah ..
> korban tomid and the avodah waa accomplished by one mishmar oif cohanim
and we had Cohanim ONLY TWICE engage in inappropriate fights for the honor (Yoma 22-23, one knifed, one broken leg) and the Rabbis stopped the races. Why are we less sensitive to human tragedy in our times?
Just heard on the radio a lovely discussion about how to deal with rich people who are apparently a problem because they own too much.
They discussed one of them, a Jewish guy, Nick Hanauer, who is apparently woke enough to advocate for higher min wage, etc. I think his grandparents had a bedding company in Germany before Nazis, then his parents built a company here. Then, crucially, he noticed a young guy Jeff Bezos and said – if you planning to start something, call me, and he invested in Amazon. Not sure whether he was the first or just an early investor, but it went unmentioned that without Nick and people like him, possibly there will be no Amazon, and the whole pandemic people will be standing in line to buy things in Sears …. Of course, Nick himself wants to re-distribute Bezos money to amazon workers.
I wonder why Nick did not put it as a condition for his investment. And, I wonder, whether Bezos would have agree it.
MA > easy ways to calm any uneasy feelings we might have that forty-five people were killed in one night. If this was a natural event, why should we feel bad
We should shudder that while Israel is getting saved from the pandemic tragedy, it gets into another one. This is not derech hateva .. some sources say that typically Jews in Israel, or in a fully Jewish city, would get a message from Hashem, but when Jews live among the nations, we sometimes do not hear the message – whole city/country/world sis punished, so it is not our fault. Seems like in current Israel, the situation is like the latter – there are others, politicians, police, whose fault it is, it is not a message for us …
I think we can feel for the tragedy even when people did something inappropriate… when a child hurts himself, you don’t start chastising him for not following safety rules, you first take care of his pain….
what is not appropriate is blaming others – government, police – or even say “we do not understand your ways Hashem, but we accept it” rather than looking at your own behavior. It is understandable in the face of the tragedy, of course.
R Avigdor Miller talked about a parent who let a strange poor person in, gave him hot tea, then went to bring another cup of tea, while leaving a kid in the room with the stranger who poured hot tea into the kid’s face.. do not say “I do not understand this tragedy while doing a mitzva”, do say “she did an aveirah of leaving a kid with a strange while doing a mitzva and was punished for that”…
Yserbius > Does this mean that you are against any socialist policies?
ont sure who you are asking but every policy need to be evaluated against the damage it brings. Even libraries, for example, prevent authors from selling books, and thus reducing incentives for writing books. Obvious, for welfare. Welfare reform in the 90s showed that poor people benefited from being encouraged to work without increasing poverty.
We have example of R Huna throwing away leftovers from the market – so that he helps by decreasing market prices. Similarly, we allow competition between Torah teachers to make teaching affordable. Another lesson that comes across that Talmidei Chachamim were empirical – they institute a policy and then change it if society does not react the right way (first fathers were teaching Torah, but not everyone was capable, then they sent teenagers to Yerushalaim, but not everyone could send, etc)
Yoma 22-23 – two incidents, first one kohen knifing another to death, then one breaking a leg. In first case, the father notices that the son is not yet dead and thus the knife is still tahor …. that it got to that people cared about bein adam l’makom and were not sensitive to lives …
the system was changed from competition to lottery after the second, leg, incident. After the first grave incident, committed out of anger, people understood the averah and possibly did teshuva. The second one, an “accident”, would not lead to teshuva, so the Talmidei Hachamim closed the games.
there are other halakhot where inability to connect the dots makes an avera more serious (for example, insulting people). Shows that we need leaders to step in specifically when people cannot connect their behavior with the damage they are doing …
if you file on paper, you’ll be waiting for a long time.
it is also not a mitzva to have a refund. It means that you volunteered to pay in advance to the government – money that you could have spent on tzedoka or your family – and now you are nicely asking to please give it back to me. IRS is surely following a halokho that in a case of sofek, the money stays in place, at least when it is you asking for money. So, plan accordingly for the next year.
huju > If you don’t follow the testing, you don’t know economics.
a good point. USA is a great place to do economic theories: we have states with similar economic structure that sometimes have different policies, or sometimes implement similar policies with a time lag. For example, if California or Vermont can build a great free medical care system, we will learn a lesson and other states might follow – or their population will follow. It is a unique system where state governments are forced to compete with each other, not just businesses. There are other countries with federal systems, but not to the size and mobility as US.
For some reason, some Vermonters prefer to insist on installing their policies at federal level instead of demonstrating the capability in their own state.
>> issued an issur against their talmidim going to Meron
Do parents have any influence on where their children go or is it all in loco parentis?
@ctl, thanks for the correction, July 2020 memo excluded illegals to be counted. Biden on January 20 rescinded order on “unauthorized” immigrants… Is the rest of the timeline ok by you? I think it is clear that census slowed down on purpose waiting for the change of the regime. Technically speaking, if Trump banned illegals but Biden allowed, lashon naki, unauthorized, does it mean that the order on illegals is still active!?
ctlawyer >Trump’s directive to only count citizens was ruled unconstitutional by the Federal Courts, repeatedly. The Census Bureau did not sabotage anything.
Haredi ani entering a discussion with an esteemed CT lawyer, so please correct my understanding of the events:
– commerce dept tried to ask a question about citizenship. court said their reasoning was arbitrary, asked for a better rationale hat never came. this is not yet declaring unconstitutional
– Trump then issued a memorandum to cunt only voters in July 2020.
– states sued and NY District found in their favor.
– President appealed to SC
– SC had hearing on Trump v. New York in Dec 2020 vacated district ruling and dismissed the case as the Census was not ready yet and possible lack of standing by States
– meanwhile Census delayed delivering results multiple times from July to October to January and eventually to Biden.I admit that Constitution seems to count residents, not citizens (“except Indians not taxed” – maybe giving a case for not inclduing those who do not pay taxes, but I digress). 14th Amendment article 2 is contradicting a little – excluding from the count rebelling citizens, seemingly assuming that citizens are close enough to residents.
At the same time, it seems absurd in modern reality to given incentives to the states to bring non-citizens. Imagine, Texas, Arizona, and Florida let in the whole Central America for one year before Census. They then get absolute majority in the House and Presidential elections. They then direct US Army to send those illegals back home. Then, only Senate and Court could save Yankees 🙂
Health > Stop defending Kerry!
I am not defending him, the words fit the pattern of how he talks.. just saying what potential arguments could be.
> Zarif is repeating what the Israel Finance Minister Israel Katz said
Even if info was in public domain, confirming it by an official is a big deal. It may educe a potential jail term, of course.
Syag, RebE, ATTENTION! maybe you misunderstood symbols on CDC website? or are you reading tem somewhere further on the site. I just looked at the front page and clicked “choosing safer activities”
the symbol for (fylly?) vaccinated people – outdoor activities without masks, for small indoor gathering – with masks.
common, thanks for an invitation. I’ve been to more exotic and scary places, so I am fine staying with civilization for now (or staying 6 ft from it, to be precise).
participant> “haham” as a “rav”.
I am referring here to a Sephardic position of a Haham (turban) which seems to be an equivalent to the Rav. See here https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/are-sephardic-rabbinic-leaders-called-rabbi-or-chacham
>> While it has been an unbelievable brocha,
this looks like an USDA program, originally (Truman) targeting poor people and expanded during COVID to cover closed school with emphasis on poor areas but without requiring strict certification and identification of incomes. guidelines say – don’t ask individuals for their income, just try to locate distribution centers in poor areas. So, the intent is to target the poor, but to expand it to make sure children who are out of school, etc are all covered. Seems like a good program that allows for some overuse to make sure everyone is covered, but I don’t think the intent is for people with reasonable income to pick this stuff up in large numbers. We have the same program here locally, and I don’t think any of working people pick that up. Seems like distributors are trying to increase their business and making people feel comfortable when using this charity.
ujm: CTR: Emunas Chachamim isn’t merely a “phrase”
ujm, I think CTR is asking you to define the notion precisely from the sources. If it is a Torah obligtion, you need to define what the procedures are.
not a Dem, but here are potential arguments:
how do we know that Kerry passed the correct facts and that those facts were really unknown to Persians?
Maybe he wanted to leverage possible threat from Israel to pressure them
Also seems like the prime minister was complaining that his intelligence services were keeping him in the dark.Some of the increase in TX, FL and maybe others are due to both legal & illegal immigration. The (Bureau)crats sabotaged and ran the clock on Trump’s directive to count only citizen for the purpose of counting Congress seats. But it looks like immigrants understand that economic policies in TX and FL are better.
Redleg > At least in Shaas, Artscroll has better peirush
The problem is that their translation is BETTER than the original ….
They smooth any controversies and insults … all big questions are made smaller and nicer. Great to learn background to halakha, but not on understanding worldview of the Tannaim and Amoraim
CTRebbe – recall a case within last month of Daf Yomi, must be Shekalim, when someone not satisfied with a person passing halakhic story from a traveler, went to the original source and asked him.
There is also Rav Yehudah disapproving a visiting youngester, told to be a Haham, when he turned out not to wear a kippah/turban because he is still not married. This sounds like an example of unsolicited advice from a Gadol to a person he does not know. But maybe we can start with Gemora examples when someone asks a Rav permission to get married and see what the discussion leads to?
On the opposite side, I saw an interview of R Gifter in the 60s where he says most marital problems are due to marrying too early.
RebE >> chasan and a bar mitzva
I heard it from a lady who is old enough to have been there, so this might be true!
Syag,
your actions are very commendable, but I am confused by the source of this mystery food:>> This food is a bit different because it is coming to people from the school distribution packages. That means it is given to everyone without financial constraints, and it is funded by the government, not tzedaka money (or intent of feeding the poor).
You are telling me that government gives away food to everyone in private schools? Maybe this is OK and a substitute for “school lunches” and, commendably, applied to private schools by your state? Is this COVID emergency or courtesy of Betsy DeVos or state? This is great. I am just not used to seeing free (kosher) food given away that is not targeting poor population.
It may be that the school has to be qualified as serving poor under Federal Title 1? Does it then get funds for everyone at school or only those who qualify for Title 1? I am not sure
>> As Torah Jews we shouldn’t be having “our” political party
Indeed – after he moved to Israel, one Rav was asked which party he support. He replied – party of Moshe Rabbeinu