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Avira: There are deos yechidim that for goyim shituf is not assur,
I don’t think this is yehidim, I recall it goes back to tosfos, am I wrong?
> As for veterans vis a vis hakaras hatov; we don’t find a source in chazal
A related sugya on respect of zekinim in Kidushin considers whether we really respect Tal,iei Hahamim of any age, or really any old people. My rav concludes that Gemora is purposefully vague on the conclusion and both should be respected, and an elderly Aramean surely had some experiences in his life, and veteran status surely increases a chance that a person did something worthy in his life.
Generally, when you look at Gemoras re:nichrim, we probably need to look at pre-censored sources to see whether we are talking A’Z, minim, etc. Even when talking about christians, it may matter whether they are Jewish/minim, and what the current relationship with them is.
Also, none of the religious concerns would apply to free-thinkers and Muslims
> Was the entire shiur about the Internet?
no, discussion was about covid in general, this was just a couple of weeks in, and one speaker, out of 3, I think, focused on Hashem’s sending us message re: Internet sins, and another mentioning it in part. I think 1 of the 3 speakers, sadly, later passed away from COVID, I am not 100% sure if I recall correctly.
> Hindsight is 20/20 as they say, and it’s a lot easier to say what should be done than to try and do something.
I myself could have done more, of course, but I set my family studying fine and distributed info about online resources and helped a school both setting up schools and COVID safety. Many other people acted too. The issue was reasonably clear. And as Syag mentioned, there were a lot of dedicated teachers who spent a lot of time and effort.
> Such things cost money, and to outsource would likely mean letting some staff go
This is a valid point. And this is where we get lost same way as public school unions – are schools for teachers or for kids. If kids were in dire situation, everything should have been done to help them. This is halakha – we allow unlimited competition between teachers, contrary to other businesses where livelihood of store owners is a valid consideration.
> Why would a school not accept a child
a long story that I partly discussed here before. Same as you mentioned above – if school let’s someone do something against their general policy, then they will be under pressure from other parents to allow something similar that might benefit kids, but will make life difficult for the school.
Syag > Pretty good for disorganized archaic inflexible orthodox people, no?
I am glad to hear this. If you re-read my post, I was quoting a school head who called full-time online program “home schooling”, and then turned around and provided the same himself. We all are not perfect and need to carefully see whether our positions are driven by objective information and not self-serving.
Avira > The state only funded torah because menachem begin – the closest thing we’ve ever had to a religious prime minister – was very friendly to and respective of charedim, especially rav shach.
Many charedim, including my rebbeim in bais brisk, refuse any and all money from the government.Not taking money from the government is a respectful position comparing with those who disparage but take (more than fair share). I am not sure how logical it is – it is very hard to deny that having Medinat Israel, and simply millions of Jews in Israel, has no significance. Just think of all Sephardim, Yemenites, Russians, Ethiopeans who escaped prosecution and found home in Israel. Would they be in good shape during Iraq-Iran war or under Asads? And even the Kibutznikim – would they have been better of, if they joined Bund in Poland or Communists in Soviet Russia?
You seem to compare against an ideal, while you need to compare against realistic alternatives.
Listened to R A Leibowitz discussing Bava Kamma agada about R Eliezer Zeeri arrested by Resh Galuta for the hutzpah of wearing black shoes as mourning for Yerushalaim. R Eliezer puzzles him with the question – how much you pay for cutting down the palm tree. Resh G first offers just the cost of the tree. When asked – what about future dates, then he offers tree + future dates. Correct answer is in between and estimated using market value – ask for a price of a whole field with and without the tree, and damage is the difference.
R Leibowitz darshens: Resh Galuta = someone who is comfortable in Galut.
First price of just the tree – discounts the future produce (potential), sees only current sorry state of Yerushalaim and does not appreciate the miracles that grow there (see Avira above)
Second price – tree + dates – assumes as if all the dates are surely going to grow as if they are already here and, thus, can be charged for. This is over-optimism and not realistic.
Real price can be seen in the context of the value within the whole field – appreciate the potential but be realistic to what you have now.
> Lots of claims about what is going on in our communities and not only are those claims heresay, but they actually aren’t happening
if this refers to my post, I heard it with my own ears and I was not searching for it. If you do not hear ot in your shuls, maybe you are also an outsider and are not privy to these Roshei Yeshovos 🙂 [you always claim that your community is “actual” and others are not somehow]
> Galus Yavan did not involve ANY geographical displacement
a good point. It did not involve political subjugation. Do we count times when Jews had political power, such as Herod and Yannai times, as part of galus? I don’t think so, do we?
> Meshech Hachma and Chasam Sofer say, in a small measure anti-semitism is good for us to protect us from assimilation.
Rav Schach writes that if there were no Arab hate, then early Zionists would quickly go study at Uiveristies of Beirut and Cairo and assimilated. So, Hashem protected them thru these hate. Side note: this means that r Schach clearly cared about those Kibutznikim.
> What drew you to tune into that particular talk?
I wanted to hear Talmidei Chachamim opinion about the pandemic, as advertised. I was not looking specifically for hizuk on internet issues.
> brick and mortar schools did not have the ability or resources to convert instantaneously into online schools.
If they would have been slightly creative, they could have. There are a lot of online resources available. Schools could have outsourced to the experts, for example. I hear Florida virtual school, for example, outsources their curriculum to other states. There are also lots of specialized sites on specific subjects that online schools bundle. One of the Jewish schools my kids attended gave group subscription to some of the math/English sites and gave homework from there.
I asked my local rep to allow increased enrollment into online public school as an emergency, and he first was interested but then said “there is local opposition” … instead director of the online school gave a couple of talks to the local districts. One irony, shortly before the pandemic, one of the schools was, Baruch Hashem, not interested in one of my kids because he, inter alia, attended online school for half a year, which the principal persisted calling “home schooling” despite all the info I gave him. I did not hear him giving tuition discounts, though, when his students were “home schooled” over the phone.
Avram,
I heard this talk myself firsthand online, I am ashamed to say.>> Do you think the Zoom classes held by schools were an adequate substitute for their in-person classes? I think education was devastated last year.
Many zoom classes were not good. Same as, to go with GH examples, a donkey driver had hard time feeding barley to his first car. You need to know what you are doing. Especially when both teachers and students are not bakiim and there is no computer support, the result will be sub-optimal.
Real online schools do not have all classes on zoom. They have some classes live through systems that do not distract when students log in (or not), and then they have online curriculum and list of materials you can access and tests, many with automatic grading. Types of classes and tests are structured into several types and kids learn to navigate and know what to expect – which tests just check what you remember from the class, others have harder problems and larger part of the grade.
I agree on fear. But it seems that translation of sholom as “welfare” is not accurate. We care about peace and tranquility of the government – but not necessarily that they get rich (at our expense).
ctlawyer, I fully agree with you that social programs should not be conflated with support for murderous regimes. In fact, the correlation might have been forgiven in the naïve 19th century, but it is astonishing that same people in US that try to help poor people, also support communist countries.
This is not helping the cause of the poor with the rest of the population. If you know any of these activists, tell them!As to Biden’s position, my info is from trusted lefty rugs, here is what they say:
March Psaki: A Cuba policy shift is not currently among President Biden’s top priorities
almost identical response a month later when pressed for reaction to Raul Castro stepping down as head of Cuba’s Communist Party.
while Biden voiced support for the protesters, describing the protests as a “clarion call for freedom,” much of his policy toward Cuba remains a mystery
questions on Cuba policy come as Biden has left largely intact Trump’s high-pressure, sanctions-heavy campaign against Cuba’s regime, despite campaign promises to the contrary.
They are concerned about the humanitarian crisis unfolding in Cuba and the possibility that it could spill over into a migratory crisisdress british think yiddish, you can’t go wrong then
In all such middos, you only need books and lomdus if you want to skirt the line, such as (example from an old mussar sefer) “Q: the train ticket to my parent’s town is expensive, and halakha is that you don’t have to spend money on parents, am I exempt? A: yes, you don;t have to take the train, you should walk)
If you rather dress impeccably, be nice to everyone, don’t take OPM, you’ll rarely need a book to consult. I am not against learning about middos, of course, just saying lack of the books should not stop you from behaving properly.
> weakened their values.
Is attitude towards internet is really a community “value”. Internet is a protocol. It can lead to dangerous places, sure. You can argue who and when and how should or not using it. but a “value”. So, someone who wanted to learn during pandemic, would have to limit himself to conference calls. What if he wants to look up a sefer that he does not have at home. Should he have a conference call with Ramban?
Avram,
this is was said by a couple of Rabonim on the phone. I also do not hear the same from the Rabbis in the community, regardless of their affiliation. Maybe some speak differently when addressing a larger audience.> Rav didn’t use the mikveh himself (and take his son along for the same reason)
the father should not go with the son, or a Rav with the community
It looks like for now Biden keeps Trump’s sanctions on Cuba in place despite the left wing pressure.
Biden seems not be very creative, but he does not always destroy things. IT may be he is in a political bind, does not want to lose further Hispanic vote that moved slightly Republican way in 2020.> many families do have an interest in moving to communities in a more suburban or country setting, but it’s hard to be a pioneer and not have the Jewish infrastructure in place.
There are a lot of small communities from 2 hours from NYC to midwest. Put together hundred families and wagons. Moving West is American way 🙂
RebE, uniforms for tu bAv is a good example, but even then there were limitations: king’s daughter will wear kohen godols daughter’s dress, etc. Maybe the message is to try to improve gradually and not plan for total equity, then people will accept it.
DY, there’s halachik discussion about tochacha r Tarfon v r Akiva, seforim written about it. Tisha bAv are minhagim. I agree that shabbos might be an issue that is legit to argue.
Syag, the writer has a subject cost of living and talks about shirts for say 5 kids for $500 and not $25k for their tuition. You think this is just because he likes to complaint. Fine, then he doesn’t need our advice. If he is still here, he might clarify.
I agree with your friend on teaching frugality. Besides general middos, there’s a practical issue that kids might not be able to afford the same lifestyle based on their own earnings. I know of a billionaire who had his college aged son helping serve dishes to people at the end of the table ( me) at the yeshiva dinner in the honor of the big donation from the father.
Caution of group think and act applies in other areas too. One of my Teachers at a public meeting in Lakewood gave a speech, saying Rav X suggested that we join our organizational efforts for the discussed purpose, pointing to a major macher sitting near him. I refused because I can control what my small group is doing and don’t want to be a part of the big group where I can’t stand by all decisions. He explained that he is disclosing this to teach us, students, how to behave.
These are minhagim, that is nedarim taken by our fathers and grandfathers. So, RebE’s grandfathers took on different observances than someone else’s. No need to argue…
What about Sephardim, who exchanged wine in av for selichot in elul. As this year a week before tisha bAv is same as rosh hodesh, do you have shorter selichot? Or you still need to atone for rice on pesach?
According to a local paper, there are structural problems – condos are not required to have reserves, inspection results are given to the board and not necessarily to owners and may be not disclosed at sales. And undefined multi year paperwork process to resolve problems. Every time you get involved in a group activity, expect this. When we lived in a condo, it was an illuminating view into collective decision making by a “diverse” group united only by lack of resources to buy single houses…
Best was a contractor who was scaring the board into major repairs, suggesting that he’ll restore it back using the brick that will look exactly as the original. Everyone was ready to sign up. I am proud that I asked, armed only with linguistics and no building expertise: will it look or BE like the old brick? I respect the salesman for his honest answer: it will look, they ain’t making bricks like that anymore. Shortly after we left, the building went under repairs for years. Always. Ask. Questions.
Syag, if you pay say 5000 tuition, would you complain about 100 shirt? You know the story about someone who asked a Rav whether he can do arba kosot with milk? The Rav gave him money to buy not only wine, but meat also. Listen carefully to people instead of stereotyping!
Syag > That has absolutely no connection to this conversation
Sorry for the enigmatic statement. Our esteemed Mods (whom I respect a lot for their hard work!) found my post offensive twice. So, I divided it in 3 parts and posted them separately to understand which one is not kosher. All 3 passed.
edited
And there is nothing “racist”. I’ve been dirt poor, I am not looking down on someone who is, I am just making a suggestion on how to behave. As I am glad to hear from your other posts, this is exactly what you do – ordering online and having uniform exchange. Great.Pesachim 112a: Rabbi Akiva, who said: Make your Shabbat like an ordinary weekday and do not be beholden to other beings. If one is unable to honor Shabbat without financial help from others, it is better for him to save money and eat his Shabbat meals as he would on a weekday rather than rely on other people.
this should apply to clothing also.
I consulted an expert (my oldest daughter), she says – uniforms (especially for girls) save a lot of money for parents. Otherwise, they’ll buy tons of different clothes! So, thanks for the uniforms and for the wisdom of children.
All said, I am not aware of schools where clothing is a significant item comparing with tuition. What’s the deal?
Syag, whom did I disparage? Am I misjudging what the typical policies are? Maybe it is different in different places and I am going from our experience. My kids were at BY and had to buy relatively expensive uniform from a specific store with a logo. Another school gave more leeway within the tznius guidelines. If you limit the competition, you get higher prices. I am not calling for non-tznius clothes.
Maybe you are making worst assumptions when reading my posts for some reason. Just don’t read the name of the poster before reading the post for better digestion.
why can’t the author pass uniforms from older kids to younger ones or exchange with neighbors?
Sounds like my answer got swallowed by internet or censored. Let me try again:
How ’bout not
RebE, yes, there are multiple other cases of boycotting high prices, including Manischewitz in NY, I think in 1930s. The answer might be for school to give people a little leeway and require some overall standard rather than a specific uniform that is produced by one manufacturer and sold by one store.
I am not sure how much clothes you all guys are blessed to have prepared for the next week that you can’t find time to wear them all before shabbos (there are still a couple of hours left where I am). If the core idea is to not wear clean/new clothes, why not continue wearing next week whatever you are wearing now before shabbos?
on another note:
>> I say that as a maasei rav, a halacha lemaaseh in our yeshivas.Just heard someone noticing how much we_all switched from learning masorah from our own parents and communities to generic approaches taught at schools and written up in books .. The unattributed story about a student questioning the shiur of a kiddush cup at a Rabbi’s house according to the “halakha” and response – it is my zeidy Brisker Rav’s cup, or something like that.
So, I say, if RebE’s zeidi jumped on his clothes on shabbos, gezunte heig .. does not mean that others outside of the family should do that … there is, as menioned, an issue whether this was b’dieved when someone forgot.
> most health care expenditures (and almost all of the procey ones) are not governed by the free market
> As to why they aren’t implemented I dont know.Well, if we continue voting for people who do not want or do not attempt, then you will continue seeing all expenditures not governed by the market… You can only see what is possible after you try. There are a number of industries that were presumed to be non-market that were successfully deregulated – air, phone, some of mail and utilities.
As an example of how corruption and self-dealing prevents easy solutions: at the beginning of the pandemic, I asked my local politician to immediately increase enrollment into existing online schools, while they were struggling re-inventing the wheel via Zoom. He first agreed that this is a good idea but later replied that the effort stalled “because of local opposition”. I presume same reason market solutions for medicine are not done.
GH > screaming gevalt about the internet
I felt very uneasy listening such a speech at early COVID that ascribed COVID to too much internet. That was before all (survivors) agreed to ignore it. I felt uneasy listening to that .. on internet.
It seems that there are two parallel ads going on – one was for the phones for the offline community, and another for online stream for online, and then technology merged these two audiences. None of the ads I saw mentioned both phone and stream. I don’t know whether the speaker was aware about being streamed online.
emes, thanks for agreeing on Trump. I agree that structure of US society matters. US is good at the top percentiles – called when vaccine is required, or a Manhattan project, and maybe even at the median (strong, more educated middle class going back 100+ years, more than most Europeans), but less controlled at the lower percentiles (not just vaccines, but also violence, etc). Maybe analogous to Babylonian learning – best at top and worst at the bottom. Maybe for the same reason – European society develops from their old source, while American is built on independent search ….
But the “fault” of Biden is that he presented himself as capable of saving country from the chaos of Trump, but in reality he has no idea what to do. He tried federal vaccination sites that probably took energy away from hospitals and pharmacies, slowing down the initial process, now these are closing and Biden is proposing going with barbers in Black areas (I did not hear – is he proposing anything for white Republicans?). WSJ has an article interviewing such a barber, who was very impressed by a celebrity visit by … a husband of Biden’s VP .. mostly that he dared to get into the place where more people are killed than dying from COVID. Barber himself, though, was not vaccinated and still does not plan to, so I am not sure whether he will help convince others. I don’t know whether biden has other ideas beyond this barbarism. So, it was definitely a smart political strategy, but it is pure genivat daat and denied the country a chance to be led by some more capable people.
you can estimate 2^1000 without no logs! 2^10 (1024) ~ 10^3 (as in Kilobyte), so 2^1000 ~ 10^300. Or, as google is 10^100, it is a thousand googols. A kilogoogol brocha? Too bad, can’t abbreviate to KG for those who can confused with that metric system
> because it is relatively easy to be a frum girl.
I came to a similar conclusion – it is easier to want to marry T’Ch than to actually become one. Even your list of a “frum” boy missed a “couple” of things – derech eretz and derech eretz (middos and earning an honest living).
Is it really easier to be a yeras shamaim young lady than bocher? Probably not, if her education would focus on middos, professional education on how to be a teacher (future family or school), earning an honest living, etc
At the end, the explanation is probably biological – males of all species and nations are prone to more risk and deviation from the norm.
Ubiq, so if we agree on some reasonable market measures, then why they are not implemented. What politicians are interested in not doing reasonable things that do not cost gov money, and only focus on how they can take control of things? After markets take care of routine things, then you can consider how to spend public money to help solve remaining problems. If you do not define market solution l’hathila, then public sector will take over the whole industry, like it happened with education.
I second the Sephardi idea. It was explained to me that this is simply a method of education – so that everyone can repeat after chazan and learn. Beats the tuition.
For the issue of faster davening, just have a sefer (or ADHD-style, several seforim) that you can learn while others are still davening. Not only you got your bakashot before everyone else, you also support them thru learning!
I have to admit to a shameful joke: a pashute yid asked me once why I am davening so fast. I replied that the Rav understands tefilah more, so he davens longer. I understand less, so I daven faster. He then suggested that I take a siddur with translation…. If you are that person and are reading this, please accept my sincere apologies.
IYK> there were .. there were
Could I suggest taking a college-level statistics class before writing about individual cases, and even those seem to exist just in your head.
Emes, there is a simple answer to those who worry about mRNA – they can take JNJ.
> Even your Messiah, Donald Trump, said take the vaccine.Not sure what this dig is about given how much effort Trump and his team expended to get us these vaccines. Pure non-Jewish lack of gratitude. A better question is that Biden was elected in a big part on his persona of his experience and plans to lead government actually vaccinating people, and so far he is failing behind most developed countries: US had a 2-month headstart and now most European countries caught up with US and continue at a 3x rate than US.
RebE, mazel tov!
Yoma addressed the issue of Chief Rabbis at the end. R Hanina refuses to accept an apology from Rav for 13 years because he saw a dream that Rav will be a Rosh Yeshiva (hanging on a palm), so he did not want to retire or die, and made Rav make yerida to Bavel where he became the Rosh yeshiva. So, this is clear that there is one Chief Rabbi at a time, Israeli and Russian customs notwithstanding.
>> Basic laws of market economics don’t really apply to healthcare.
this is not true. There are ways to make difficult industries more market friendly. Making price transparent would be one. Not covering basic care for those who can afford it would be another. Increasing competition between insurances would be third. International competition on buying drugs, 4th. I am sure there is a Cato report on market policies in healthcare somewhere there. Trump tried some. Bush II tried some with Medicare supplements, After all of that, you can consider how government could plug the market deficiencies.
A good example of competition introduced in a difficult industry was Navy building, I think, fighter engines during Reagan times. Navy ordered design from one prime contractor and then disclosed designs to the competitor [legal according to fine print, but contrary to prevailing practice of honoring designers with no-bid contracts] and invited both to bid for production, awarding contracts to both for several years, resulting in huge decrease in pricing.
IYK, the question about children depends on the risk. If the kids are constantly exposed, then you are choosing a chance between the exposure to a wild, or created by an enemy, virus v. vaccine that was created and tested to be good. Of course, test for antibodies first, maybe the kid had it. Some recommend one shot in such cases. Choice is less clear for kids that are not exposed.
Redleg, I don’t have personal experience, but research indeed shows that VAs in big cities is superior to the ones in rural areas.
also, note that VA serves reasonably homogenous population used to discipline. So, VA experience is probably better than a similar system applied to the whole country would be.
Government is necessary when there is no effective market solution. Otherwise, it is generally inferior. Most of us do not buy food and clothes from government stores for some reason … So, before calling the government payer, did we exhaust all market approaches? Trump enabled regulations that force hospitals to publish their prices. Not sure whether that had any effect so far. You can allow insurance compete across states; make it easier to take your medical data from one provider to another, etc.
RebE, you can’t provide charity by constraining whole population and antagonizing half of the country. There should be better options.
So, you may be better off reading or listening to a class that covers a topic in depth, maybe looking up multiple sources yourself. When you go through several sugyot like that, then you may want to go through whole text.
If you learn as an adult, you do not necessarily learn the same way as a kid. You can learn more concepts and utilize your knowledge while being less successful in covering a lot of material without the depth. Compare with a kid playing piano, a note by note, not really being bothered by mistakes v. an adult who listened to best music and is bothered every time he is off-key.
Color is cultural. If I recall, an appropriate present to the wife in Israel was linen clothes, in Bavel, colorful, and I don’t think the colors were fifty shades of black. Red wasn’t appropriate, though