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Well, Lakewood NJ was chosen as such. How did that work out?!
how about parents’ basement?
OrechDin, this journal is not high there, but it is a valid academic publication, and gofundme should be OK for the current emergency. this is not a time for writing NIH proposals. I see above that an underlying study was a fraud, that’s an issue.
Also, they have maybe 10 different questions and only one of them (an important one, though) has moderate confidence, all the rest are low confidence. if you look at overall multi-test statistics – a chance to have one moderate out of 10 tests – would indicate low confidence inthe overall result. It is as if you throw dice 10 times, then select the highest value out of 10 and say that your “average” is 10 out of 12.
that said, it is a valid strategy to search through existing medicines to see if any of them would help. The benefit is that safety is already known and manufacturing exists. So, if there is a way to improve outcome even by a small number (as these tests seem to indicate), it is worth trying.
There may be some hidden correlations that help in some cases. For example, it is possible that extra vitamins are very helpful in places with deficiency of that vitamin, but less in others
Avira> klal yisroel accepted on themselves to keep glatt in America (many in Europe did not), as part of strengthening kashrus
this is probably true, but if we define “klal israel” broadly to include various people who eat kosher but whom you may not necessarily respect, moev to glatt is probably due to marketing strategy of certifying agencies who want to have a broad standard accepted by stricter communities, I believe somewhere in the 80s, possibly also re-definig “glatt” to minimally acceptable, and even down to proverbial glatt chickens.
> when people claim that children who were abused are abusive parents themselves
It appears to be true statistically, and also mentioned by the Rabbis who write about these issues.
You are right that these people have an opportunity, and a mitzvah, to turn this around, but it is a challenge that they need to realize and approach accordingly. This is discussed in halakha when discussing children punished for the sins of parents – presuming they continue the sins.
Gadol > news-release
I am not sure what motivates you to launch partisan counter-attacks while admitting the failures of the big guy you voted for. As if you are on the campaign staff. Why not discuss what is important and how it affects all of us. Generally, number of people who disapprove of Biden went up from 44 to 49% faster than previous disapproval growth. That is, even such a disastrous performance affected just 10% of the supporters. Shows how crazy partisan we all are.
Avira> what relevance is there to note how someone or another feels about it? …
They didn’t take into consideration what average baalebatim felt, so why should we?How someone feels can definitely affect a psak. Simple cases are in Gemora when a new Derabonan needs some time to see if people will accept it. And we also have halochos that are based on how we expect people to behave. for a random example (hi Beitza 2!) a suggestion that yom tov requires more gedorim than Shabbos because people might be laxer about it. I would venture to say, if Rabbis would not think of how people could make mistakes, then there will be no need for gedorim at all.
A recent example I read somewhere – there was a yeshiva bocher in Old Country who dared to (mistakenly) say “no tachanun today” during davening. The Gabbai called him up and “respectfully” suggested to take a place near the bimah. In exactly same case in modern Israel, R Ouerbach whispered to the gabbai “skip the tachanun” not to embarrass the person. So, halakha of tochacha in this case depends on where the person, and society in general, holds.
We seem to sometimes take positions to oppose our challengers – Reform does Tikun Olam, so we withdraw; others insist on faith, so we re-focus on performing mitzvos. L’Chavero is something that secular society does both on personal and societal level, so we unconsciously value them less.
RebE> ben adam lechavero includes ben adam lamakom hence greater but that does not mean to neglect the latter.
While balance may be a good start, there are several reasons to do more in L’Chavero:
1) there is always room for error in L’Chavero: these mitzvos depend on the other person and you can always make a mistake evaluating another person. For example, you think $10 is good enough to pay a worker, but he might think that he deserves $20. You think that coming on time to a class is respectful, the Rav might be offended that you are not there 10 minutes before. You bring a present to your wife, and she thinks that you did not bring it last year … this is way more likely that your halav stam will have camel milk in it. So, being machmir will keep you from an actual aveira2) in addition to a mitzva, you are helping an actual person. See Chafetz Chaim story on doing kiddush before piyutim for a hungry guest. And as RebE is saying, any mitzva L’Chavero includes L’makom, so it’s like 3x effect.
3) if you want to be machmir in learning, same thing – L’chavero involves more details and requires more knowledge, and changes with time and place, so makes sense to spend more time on it.
ujm> very sad that you think Bein Adam Lamakom is chopped liver, Very sad, indeed, as Bein Adam Lamakom is as important as Bein Adam L’Chaveiro. Furthermore, it’s quite disappointing that you fail to recognize that not dressing provocatively in public is very much a Bein Adam L’CHAVEIRO issue.
Maybe I was not clear. Possibly as RebE points out because I was to tactful. I am not rejecting items on your list and not saying that mitzvot bein Adam L’makom are not important.
I am pointing out that it is unbalanced. And I admitted that tzniut has an aspect of L’Havero. This is just a sad re-telling of an old joke about a guy whose milk was taken in beis medrash despite a notice of “DO NOT STEAL” until he wrote also “halav stam”…
So, again, I am suggesting not only to add items to your list, but also to review your motivations for these chumros, as the unbalanced nature of the list reveals some core problems. Just superficially adding things for balance will not fix the original hesaron.
There is a Gemora that a youngele is coming to see, I think, Rav Yehudah, who asks him why he has no sudar on his head. He replies that he is not married, and R Yehudah turns away from him in disapproval… It seems, superficially, that expectations were for only married guys to wear the head-covering, but also stricter expectations on getting married, so it may be same at the end …
Of course, this is not a complete proof, as some interpret this as sudar being on top of a hat on top of kippah. Not sure if we have other similar cultural referencesI agree with the generational approach. People who remember ravaging anti-semitism, whether in Russia, Germany, or USA, behave accordingly. Also, the “melting pot” pre-60s view made it very difficult not to look like others, and corresponding reaction from others. Even in our time, Jews in Paris, I think are more careful walking around identifying openly as Jews.
Years ago, someone finishing medical school, sporting a kippah, of course, had an interview with a doctor in NYC. The doctor did not have a kippah, but at some point walkling around hospital, he oured himself a cup of water, went with this guy into an empty office, closed the door, and took a kippah from his pocket to say a brocha.
ujm, it is shocking that none of your chumrot examples involve mitzvos being Adam LeHavero. It is all focused on yourself. Well, maybe tzniyut is to make it easier on other people’s eyes, but probably more on maintaining your own status.
I don’t think it will help if you add a couple of extra things there, your current unbalanced list is a good indication of improper motivations. Maybe this is something to think about.
>> “not studying professions”
> You are such a haterAt least you are not defending slavery 🙂 I think this belongs on the list here. It is pretty reasonable from the traditional POV to be afraid of liberal education, but participating in modern economy requires certain skills. Same way Jews knew how to dry figs, make shoes, bread, and spices, with all professional secrets involved, we need to know how to write software, know American law and medicine. We just need to realize inherent biases we have and achieve educational goals without compromising traditional values.
If someone gives you a small vanilla cake, while you would love a big strawberry one – do you thank them or blame them?
you are definitely allowed to learn lessons from your upbringing and fix what you need to fix. Of course, after careful study and making sure what you think are errors are actual errors.
And be careful not to repeat the same things in your family. This often happens…
R Pliskin brings a question from someone – how can I NOT repeat same patterns as I was exposed to them every day.
Question back – did you ever witness proper behavior?
Yes, when I visited my friends’ families, but this would be once a month, while the rest of the time I was exposed to incorrect behavior
Answer: Play good behavior that you saw in your mind multiple times, and then majority of your experience will be good behavior.GH > I’ll not venture to speculate which party ranks higher on the arrogance/hypocrisy meter on any given day.
Human nature is the same on both sides. But, when one side tends to change things and decide for others, and the other prefers the old ways and advocates less concentrated power, then yetzer hara would exhibit itself in a different ways.
There is more room for lying and arrogance when a navi sheker is proposing to save the world and offer people new solutions: workers will run the factories, government will print money for you, etc.
Traditionalists get into intellectual holes when they advocate things that clearly need to be changed – slavery, not studying professions, rejecting masks/vaccines – but this is a much smaller field.> back to the Comedian in Chief, $80 billion + in arms were left for the Taliban
I do not disagree. They are busy now writing new lines in the comedy:
1) “according to the advise of military Chiefs” referring to various minute decisions like leaving Kabul without picking up all citizens (green card holders and eligible refugees are not even mentioned). So, Biden makes major decisions himself (strategic – to leave, and tactical – to leave in time for 9/11 anniversary, abandon Baghram, etc), puts military into a dangerous position in an airport in the middle of the city, surrounded by Taliban “protection”, and then throws them under the bus for any decision they make after those blunders.2) “Ending the military mission was the best way to protect the lives of our troops — and secure the prospects of civilian departures for those who want to leave Afghanistan in the weeks and months ahead,” talking points from WH to Dems leaked out today (finally, leaks started coming).
So, leave them to protect them better …All this energy managing their reputation could have been used on thinking what could happen in advance. But, if you have a team experienced in politics, they’ll do what they know how to do.
philosopher,
UAvs were first deployed in Balkans in 1995-6
in 1998, we were able to shoot cruise missiles at Al Qaeda fixed targets. so, technology was there.from wiki: We were able to locate bin Laden from video in summer of 2000 and tested shooting a missile from Predator in February 2001. But we did not have permission from Stans to host a weapon there. In Feb 2002, we killed from the air someone resembling Bin Laden. Of course, it became harder later on, when capability became known and the terrorists started taking precautions.
I am not arguing one way or another re:training Afghans, just giving you facts. Maybe it was wrong trying to recruit a bigger army and train them as an Army. Afghans are pretty good at fighting their way, and their special forces by all accounts worked well. Hope now when they are left to their own way of fighting we will support them in a similar way Reagan helped them fight Soviets.
> Who decides what misleading information is
you. Here is one way: find a subject that you know well – studied, can pass an exam, talked with experts. Say, liver diseases, statistics, or medieval Polish Jewish history, or halochos of giraffe schehita, or Chinese cooking. Then, listen to people who speak about it and evaluate whether what they say is sound and honest. When you find such people, listen to them in other areas, listen to who they quote, ask them for references to other authorities.
For example, on COVID, I am not an expert on medical and public health aspects, but I know statistics, cluster analysis, and machine learning. So, when I read an article and I see that they are doing statistics well, I then pay more attention to their medical conclusions. This is not a fair example, of course, as statistics happen to be at the core of the current crisis and general level of education is low. But I also tried this in Jewish learning. I was fortunate to learn a small number sugyuot with very good teachers but this is generally sufficient to “test” any other speaker/teacher.
How do I know those teachers knew what they are talking about? Rav Steinsaltz Z’L, for example, when talking to me for the first time joked about my last name that showed his knowledge of an obscure historical place. Another time, I was interested in an relatively obscure old book of halakhos in abnormal situation and asked about it. Several people could not help, my local Teacher read it before and explained it to me, my Lakewood Teacher picked it up from the bookshelf right above him and we learnt a page from there.
The danger on both meikel and mahmir side is to make sure you are not deluding yourself when making decisions. We see here lots of people, including myself, who will not change a position on an issue even when offered a strong argument against. So, then, how can you trust yourself?
According to a Rav who errs on the strict side himself: if you commit to strict halakha, you can usually look up a sefer and you will know what to do. If you commit to humros, you are in danger. Should you, for example, do another humra at the expense of your family? I did not have a chance to ask him about an obvious way people handle that – join a community and buy books where not following humros is considered gehenom and your questions go away.
To practice doing chumros right, choose your own one chumra and train yourself on that. Preferably, a private one and that is not done at expense of others. For example, I am counting how many people I can wave through in front of me in traffic. The reason for this chumra is that people are generally polite when walking and looking at each other faces, even in masks: there are no red light on sidewalks! But if we don’t see faces of drivers, suddenly it is wild west.
Turns out this is not an easy one. Sometimes, I am in a hurry and either forget or feel that my time is more important. Sometimes, I have more kids in a car than the empty school bus I meet – why should I let him. Also, I seem to be doing it better when kids are in the car and I can “teach” them (or really show off?). Also, what do you do when the drivers behind you get annoyed by you slowing the traffic down by letting people in? And what about people who do not understand your blinking to let them in and continue standing – do you wait partently for them or not?
We also discussed here a balance between different area – should you spend more effort in chumros in one area while you disregard others?
It is a hard question. On one hand, it is silly to see someone who, say, dresses machmir and then parks his car on a sidewalk. On the other hand, everyone naturally has certain talents and interests and should not throw them away. If someone is a talented piano player, you would not want him to work day and night on his science classes. Similarly, yes, Avraham was given a couple of tests that went against his middah of Hesed, but he still spent most of his life in hesed, instead of kicking kids out of home or threatening them with knives. Those were tests, not lifetime occupation.
SO, I think, as long as you realize there are these trade-offs between being machmir in something special and your general level, and them consciously select where to be machmir, you are OK. But if you are simply following “popular” chumros and not examine yourself, you are not.
philosopher> drones
this is a little ahistorical – drones were rare and not capable to wage a war in 2001. At some point at that time, I think, Gen McCrystal was running a drone operation and a feed was cut – because Pentagon generals wanted to control such an important operation.
> google scholar whatever that is,
google scholar is a search engine for searching published papers. It refers back to multiple scientific databases. It is not same as regular consumer google or youtube. You don’t have to use them, you can use NIH pubmed, researchgate, arxiv, proquest, sciencedirect, jstar, ebsco and various other collections to find research papers and also citations from those papers to newer papers that refer to them.
RebE,> Why don’t the Biden advisors resign?
This is exactly the question everyone is asking. There is a Marine LtCol who just asked this question while still in uniform and is losing his position….According to what I read, they do not resign because they (1) share his views to begin with, especially those without military experience (all of them in close circle except the SecDef) (2) they have nowhere to go, they grew in politics with Biden, they don’t have any other home. Again, not my view, the lefty investigators who are trying to think over the disaster. If they were to publish this earlier, maybe things would have gone differently.
Look up, for example, Sec of State bio: he went to right schools, then was deputy of this and deputy of that. His achievements include developing this and that policy, including the infamous Biden’s plan to tri-partition Iraq, Obama’s (non) “responses” to Crimea and Syria. His couple of years in “private” sector earned him a $1 mln for consulting private companies how to get contracts with the government that he just worked for. If he quits and burns bridges to the government, nobody will ever hire him.
RW > Even YouTube comments on both right and left wing news outlets are 95% against these mandates
You got captured by an Algorithm! this Tube will show you what you like. The more you click on something, the more it shows you same thing. Try unbiasing yourself. instead of google, youtube, or some entertainment sites, go to medline or google scholar – that has scientific publications and search for neutral words, say, “vaccine efficacy” (not biased terms like “vaccines do not work” or “vaccines are perfect”) – and then read summaries of several papers. This will give you a better slice of what research shows.
You guys inspired me, I’m starting a website selling kamiyot strictly upon Rambam’s mesorah. Some old ones signed by Rambam himself with the kavanot he developed in his later years.
RebE> When you always follow your own instincts, people around you realize that their good advice is not required and is ignored.
RebE, I think you simply wish your own sensitivity on people you voted for. Where are your examples of Biden doing something against his instincts and following an advice. Do we need to quote Bob Gates again?
I brought a mixed example written up before the election by one of the Biden’s agitators – that Biden continued publicly defending his idea of dividing Iraq in parts, while privately conceding that he is wrong and not pushing it further. This is still not when he was a “decider”.
Avira >> so long as they are wearing a yarmulkah
I understand that there are exceptions to this also, such as professions where yarmulka may interfere with a mission or where one may be disadvantaged: legal, medical, government … We may see this less often in our times due to liberalism/multi-cultism, but in previous generations there were a lot of pretty religious people who did not cover their hats. It actually may be a sterotype among haredim, less knowledgeable than Avira, that this is MO MO (modus operandi): I was telling a hevrusa a story how someone in rural South reacted to my yarmulka, and he was genuinely surprised that I was wearing one at work there.
Re: hats and kings
Are you guys THAT sure that all Jews were always wearing black hats, especially imported and expensive ones? Using your analogy, what if I enter the King’s palace and dress as a minister and the King finds out that I am a simple visitor with a humble request?! He’ll surely call police to throw me out of the palace. I think I am better off dressing up as a simple peasant I am, in a poshute British suit. At least, maybe the King will have rochmonus and listen to me!
I imagine it would be even scarier to have a 100 of my friends, all dressed up as Talmidei Chachamim, come to the King as a group, pushing and shoving. When one of us double-parks near the palace interfering with the Royal procession, the whole group will be arrested and sent to Gulag regardless of individual merit.
Back to the concert, there is a story of R Salanter visiting Konengsberg, a busy modern merchant city. First several times there, he declined an invitation to speak. After that, he talked about shabbos and said – I understand that vessels cost a lot of money and it is hard not to unload them, but could you at least not write down a list of merchandize on Shabbos? Later, he suggested to unload vessels, but not to load the new merchandize, etc. Why did he missed first several weeks? Because there was a visiting Litvak in the shul and R Salanter did not want to give him any ideas about breaking Shabbos. So, a concert might be good for some, but not for others.
ujm > If you don’t know how to bring up your children, send them to foster care.
off topic, but this is what most people do. There are some rare individuals who either teach kids themselves or sign up as teachers to be teaching their own kids, but most people prefer going to an office, or even WFH lately, while delegating mitzvos of shinantam levanecha, teaching profession, and even swimming. It is a miracle that most are still doing pru urvu themselves!
Avira > it says to do so even if he screams at you “ad hacaah” until he hits you.
I think it is a machlokes whether you need to wait until he actually hits you, or you need to stop when you see him ready to hit. Given the realities of the 2nd amendment in USA, I would stop earlier to make sure I can continue giving tochacha.
> Just as it someone doesn’t know how to fulfill any other obligation, he should learn how to
There is a profound differences between learning how to do schehita or how to give tochacha. Mitzvot bein adam l’Havero require understanding the other person. Same tochacha may inspire one person and leave another one depressed. For some smart kid, when the Rav explains that he runs the shul according to the people who are there, it may be a step into Rabanut, sociology or psychology; for an emesdik Avira it was a reason to reject the Rav.
So, I am all for people trying to learn it, but do not expect everyone to succeed! Even if they learn everything from their teachers, it might not help – as generations change, and what worked 20 years ago might not work now.
There is one safe method of tochacha that has less side effects – demonstrate the correct way by your own behavior.
ujm > Sefer HaChinuch perek 239
ujm, thanks a lot for the reference! This sefer – that I would probably never find by myself – helps me understand the issue. I continued reading this whole perek and found further excellent advice – that in cases where the listener is not getting it, not to do it, including a reference to Yevamot 65b – that you can fulfil either a mitzva of giving tochacha when needed, or not give one when it should not be.
I also notice that the next perek 240 talks about a prohibition of embarrassing. I wonder whether these two prokim are connected somehow.
Anyway, I hope this is a good illustration of a tochacha given the nice way!
RebE > Biden listens to his competent advisors
not true factually: It is well documented that military did not like the idea of leaving Afghanistan in all administrations, and Biden was advising Obama not to listen to them long time ago.
left-wing reports describe a different picture, unfortunately: his advisors are first selected to conform to his views (see McCain objecting to Blinken appointment some years ago including his views on Afganistan), and also group-think where advisors are aware of his views and not contradicting him, partly because it is futile, partly because it is bad for their careers. Note that most advisors raised up by being Biden advisors and no other independent experience. This is as old as Sanhedrin discussions of Bar Kamtzah ..
One of the articles mentions, inter alia, a similar circumstance during Obama admin in 2014 when advisors came to 2014 meeting on Russia with certain ideas, but when they heard President advocating the opposite, they did not present their views.
Compare with Trump who had a number of people who contradicted him, sometimes he listened to them, sometimes he did not. sometimes he was right, sometimes he was not. Most of that became public before there was an action, so there were proper discussions in the society. Abrahamic accords and giving lethal weapons to Ukraine was done against State dept ideas, dealing with IS was done by allowing Dept of Defense do what they were not allowed by Obama.
Gadol > believe Trump knew what he was doing on ANY national security issue,
A left-wing rag recently ran a discussion with their experts asking them a ridiculous (for them) question – was there one thg that Trump did right? Five experts had five different items. You are an educated person, I am sure you can name some yourself. For your own sake, write them down on a piece of paper. You don’t have to post it here, you can just burn it after. Just tell us how many items were on the list 🙂
This discussion should separate theology from sociology. I see a list of MO problems to include girls learning Gemora and inappropriate tzniut and keeping shabbos. Are you suggesting, like R Eliezer, that these problems are connected – that girls find tirutzim in Gemora to go dancing in Shabbos? I don’t think so.
Maybe confusing issue is putting everyone who is lacking observance into “MO”. MO schools invite both families looking for “MO” experience for kids and those who simply want to send kids to a posh Jewish school. This is both negative experience for the kids from the first group and hopefully positive experience for the latter.
So, to see the effect of the school you should not simply point to graduates and see how they behave but compare students before and after they go to the school. This is now a recognized metric in education evaluating teachers and schools. Maybe someone with more knowledge about these schools can provide their observations.
> doesn’t absolve you from your chiyuv to give tochacha. And the obligation is upon every Jew.
Except people who are not capable of doing tochacha right, which probably includes most of us.
2SC > A better question would be, does anyone know the long term side effects of acquiring the Covid 19 virus
I agree that unknown risk of a bat or Chinese virus is higher than of a vaccine developed by responsible scientists. note the terms that RW and others introduced – “natural immunity” as if they are taking Vitamins. Not sure whether this is a proper scientific term, or Chinese are marketing their virus this way 🙂
Offtopic, but why I have Rambam open on Halakhot Deos – on a need to work:
יא
דֶּרֶךְ בַּעֲלֵי דֵּעָה שֶׁיִּקְבַּע לוֹ אָדָם מְלָאכָה הַמְפַרְנֶסֶת אוֹתוֹ תְּחִלָּה. וְאַחַר כָּךְ יִקְנֶה בֵּית דִּירָה. וְאַחַר כָּךְ יִשָּׂא אִשָּׁה. שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר (דברים כ ו) “מִי הָאִישׁ אֲשֶׁר נָטַע כֶּרֶם וְלֹא חִלְּלוֹ”. (דברים כ ה) “מִי הָאִישׁ אֲשֶׁר בָּנָה בַיִת חָדָשׁ וְלֹא חֲנָכוֹ”. (דברים כ ז) “מִי הָאִישׁ אֲשֶׁר אֵרַשׂ אִשָּׁה וְלֹא לְקָחָהּ”. אֲבָל הַטִּפְּשִׁין מַתְחִילִין לִשָּׂא אִשָּׁה וְאַחַר כָּךְ אִם תִּמְצָא יָדוֹ יִקְנֶה בַּיִת וְאַחַר כָּךְ בְּסוֹף יָמָיו יְחַזֵּר לְבַקֵּשׁ אֻמָּנוּת אוֹ יִתְפַּרְנֵס מִן הַצְּדָקָה. וְכֵן הוּא אוֹמֵר בַּקְּלָלוֹת (דברים כח ל) “אִשָּׁה תְאָרֵשׂ” (דברים כח ל) “בַּיִת תִּבְנֶה” (דברים כח ל) “כֶּרֶם תִּטַּע”. כְּלוֹמַר יִהְיוּ מַעֲשֶׂיךָ הֲפוּכִין כְּדֵי שֶׁלֹּא תַּצְלִיחַ אֶת דְּרָכֶיךָ. וּבַבְּרָכָה הוּא אוֹמֵר (שמואל א יח יד) “וַיְהִי דָוִד לְכָל דְּרָכָו מַשְׂכִּיל וַה’ עִמּוֹ”:The way of sensible men is that first, one should establish an occupation by which he can support himself. Then, he should purchase a house to live in and then, marry a wife. [This order of priorities may be inferred from Deuteronomy 20:5-7], which states: “Who is the man who has planted a vineyard, but not redeemed it…;” “who is the man who has built a house, but not dedicated it…;” “who is the man who has betrothed a woman, but not taken her [to wife]…”
In contrast, a fool begins by marrying a wife. Then, if he can find the means, he purchases a house. Finally, towards the end of his life, he will search about for a trade or support himself from charity.
[This is also implied by the order of] the curses mentioned [in Deuteronomy 28:30]: “You shall betroth a woman…, you shall build a house…, you shall plant a vineyard;” i.e., your behavior will be disordered so that you will not succeed in your ways. However, in regard to blessing [I Samuel 18:14] states: “And David was thoughtful in all his undertakings and God was with him.”
Avira,
Litvishe Yeshivot – a good point that their regular clothes were due to self-confidence. Possibly also because Lithuanians did not represent a cultural challenge the way Poland or USA do.A good idea to look at Rambam! In Deos 5:9, he is saying this about clothes:
clothing should be attractive and clean… no stains ..not wear regal garb,.. nor the dress of the poor which shames its wearers, but attractive garments of the middle range.
flesh should not be visible … should not drag on the ground
dress as befits [his income] (not more or less)I don’t see anything here about being different from others – respectable and middle class. British suit sounds good – if you can afford it.
> That letter can’t be true, because we have eye witness testimony
I am not a big expert on Israeli politics and Rav Kook and I understand that both sides are prone to exaggerate. Is there something in Ch Ch SIL bio that makes you suspect that he is not saying the truth? Or are you claiming that the letter is a forgery? Maybe you can look into that given that this is a documentary evidence that directly contradicts your body of knowledge.
I apologize, I looked at the wrong rows when analyzing the data, please disregard that post. Correcting:
early treatment shows consistent 50% improvement but with very small sample sizes: 3 out of 7 studies that had >100 people (100 to 300) in each of the arms have 12%, 16%, 37% improvement.
So, it is some modest improvement with not a lot of data. Understand that for early treatments, we are talking low mortality, so 100 patients = 4 deaths, the numbers are really low.Prophylaxis has 5 studies with 400+ people in each arm with 30% improvement
late treatment: much more data, 17% improvement on average, but all big trials negatives
so, overall seems that HCQ is somewhat helpful and should be used early, maybe as prophylaxis upon exposure
Health, I looked at the underlying hcqmeta site referred in Medscape Aug 21 article. Here is what results actually say. I am looking at only RCT (randomized controlled) not “early” tests:
Prophylaxis gets some 20% on average improvement
Late treatment shows 50% improvement
Early treatment results – many show improvement 505 on average, but most are very small. biggest ones Recovery, Solidarity show that HCQ is worse than controls. These studies also seem to be on sicker patients (10-25% dying in controls), while many positive studies have 1-10% dying.There is also 2x less benefit in North America comparing with all other regions
Overall, it seems it seems from this analysis that HCQ is moderately beneficial, but not under all conditions and not for all people.
Avira, I presume you meant “minim”, these are people who attack us with religious differences – Tzdikim, Notzrim, Reformim …. Are you applying this term to Israelis playing soccer on Shabbat? Confused.
> bracha for safe travel will reduce the balding of tires.
probably only if you checked the pressure before travel and drove carefully. I doubt that bracha absolves of personal responsibility.
2scents, actually numbers you are quoting show some HCQ benefit across multiple studies. Even if each of them is below stat significance, they jointly will not be.
24% v 30% in placebo had symptoms
4 hospitalized v 8 or 10
1 died in both
0.27 events per year v 0.38
11.8 % v 14.3%Cochrane review is a gold standard for meta-studies, trying to evaluate significance from multiple independent trials. Feb 2021 B Singh et al Chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine for prevention and treatment of COVID‐19 shows no benefit for HCQ in both treatment and prophylactics.
Syag> This is NOT the case according to the er nurse and healthcare workers I’ve been checking in with. Please,acknowledge that your assumption on this is NOT the case.
Baruch Hashem, I am saying – to watch, I do not have definite data. As I mentioned, a friend recently got back from ICU – did not vaccinate because he was slightly sick before, and there were some cases in the news also.
The question is – how to monitor and mitigate. I do not have confidence that the same people who were not careful first time, will now be able to monitor the situation.
your ER nurses mention unvaccinated – do they ask them if these unvaxed had symptoms last year? used this to make a decision not to vax? I would presume that unvaxed people in general commmunity would be similar in behaviors to the ones in the community – the ones who were not isolating before, probably younger, etc. Maybe you can clarify more what they said.
Syag> This is exactly what’s happening. I have been trying to get you to acknowledge/hear that for months.
Syag, if you are saying that your community indeed did not take precautions and got so sick early on, and this is indeed true, then you should all put black clothes on and sit and fast for the great number of people that were killed and sick, rather then explaining that now is a great time to go to vacations.
2sc> noting an observation.
I see. It may be true that communities that were not careful were more exposed at the beginning, had very high rates then, and lower rates later. I don’t think it gave any overall benefits though, unless older people were strictly isolated. More than 50% of transmissions happen in the family, so if kids got it, they will transmit to parents and then to grandparents.
But your observation highlights importance of the discussed question whether previously sick require a vaccine, especially if those sick were in the early months and now more than a year passed and new variants are around, so some people might think that they are still protected when they are not.
and there is probably a positive correlation between those who were not careful l’hathila and got sick and vaccine hesitancy, so this cluster – sick early and not vaccinated – is one to watch for increase in disease, and, presumably, recommend to take one does of mRNA or JJ.