Always_Ask_Questions

ujm, we have apparently one case of mass execution by Shimon b’ Shetach in history (who lived in generally very bloody and desperate times) v. opinions in Makkos that executing one person in 70 years makes a bloody court. So, how do we weigh inappropriate dresses v. other problems Sanhedrin will be dealing with – say, murderers, informers, communists, idol worshippers, pandemic rule breakers?

I expect a Rabbi Akivesque Sanhedrin member to argus this defense: as to the extent (pardon the word) of the problem in Israel – we do have some reasonable segregation in Israel, so that a charedi man from Bnei Brak needs to go out if his way to Tel Aviv to complain about attire. So, for one this is going to impeach the witnesses – either they are not shomer shabbat or they travelled to Tel Aviv l’dvar aveira, all dressed in black etc.

FDA advisors had a an interesting meeting on Friday discussing heterogeneous vaccines and their effect on antibody levels 1 month after booster.
notes (disclaimer: I am not a real doctor)
– J&J followed by mRNA gets to almost same high antibody level as mRNA booster (i.e. 3 total) – a month after booster, they are continuing observations. Delta included in this. Seems like J&J and mRNA gives much higher antibodies that two J&Js that were also approved Friday
– most heterogeneous results are same or better than doing same vaccine
– while J&J had lower antibody count than mRNA 1 month after, it kept the level 6 month later better
– they are not sure how B and T cells affect immunity in addition to antibodies.
– FDA would like to move very slow. Instead of asking a question “should we approve that”, they first asked “give us your ideas” and when pushed back, formulated a question “what additional information you would like to see”. The answers were mostly – this is good enough, stop asking us, just do full authorization, so that doctors could make free decisions instead of being afraid.

I think long jackets signify more self-importance (doctors v residents). Also makes it difficult to run after avoda zora (discussion between R Ashi and Menashe)

Of course, if all members of Sanhedrin will vote that way – then there is no death penalty, of course because deliberation is ot valid if there is no diversity of views … something to keep in mind in discussions

Avira, my question was partially unfair – there is also an issue of generations. As you mention, there were so many people going off the derech at that time, I would be the first to dissuade people from college at that time. You are probably right that those yehidim who went and survived had excellent preparation. I also agree on your approach with kids, I am doing exactly the same. The question becomes when they get a little longer.

If your kids plan to go to chinuch, then there are no issues. Otherwise, the question is whether they need to learn things required in the world – and many of these things they missed while earlier attending Jewish schools. I am encouraging them and plugging the gaps, explaining that they are getting same as in MO schools, just not at the same time – were focused on Jewish education first and now doing remediate work on English writing while doing AP History at the same time.

It looks like we got off women-gemorah topic a little. To come back, women who get reasonably general education, say a Law School, can relate to the issue of proving things, comparing different views, so if we do not give them background on what they are doing, they might not appreciate Torah at the level they are capable of.

Avira > I realize this may horrify some, but I’m involved in chinuch. ..Interpersonally, one must be non judgemental

I am curious, could you clarify: if R Moshe Soloveichik have hired you to be a melamed of his son, would you try to discourage (directly or indirectly) him from going to the Free Polish University and to University of Berlin?

to bring you to those times, here are several professors that a young Yoshe Ber would encounter there:

Max Dessoir was born in Berlin, into a German Jewish family..An associate of Pierre Janet and Sigmund Freud, Dessoir published in 1890 a book on The Double Ego, describing the mind as divided into two layers, each with its own associative links[4] – its own chain of memory.[5] He considered that the ‘underconsciousness’ (Unterbewusstein) emerged in such phenomena as dreams, hypnosis, and dual personality..In 1889, in an article in the German periodical Sphinx, Dessoir coined the term ‘parapsychology’ (actually in its German equivalent, ‘Parapsychologie’): “If one … characterizes by para- something going beyond or besides the ordinary, than one could perhaps call the phenomena that step outside the usual process of the inner life parapsychical, and the science dealing with them parapsychology. ..Dessoir was an amateur magician who had used the pseudonym “Edmund W. Rells”. He was interested in the history and psychology of magic.

Eugen Mittwoch (December 4, 1876 – November 8, 1942) was the founder of Modern Islamic Studies in Germany, and at the same time an eminent Jewish scholar…Coming from an old Orthodox Jewish family, ..He initially wanted to become a Rabbi. During his studies in Berlin he discovered Islamic studies and did his doctorate ..In the early 1920s Mittwoch was involved in the planning of the Hebrew University and its School of Oriental Studies.[1] He was invited to Jerusalem to receive a professorship of Arabic for one year, but apparently refused the invitation. ..Since he was a leading specialist on Ethiopian languages world-wide, Mittwoch did not lose his academic position in 1933 immediately like almost all his Jewish colleagues in Germany did at that time. This had to do with a special intervention by Mussolini with Hitler on behalf of Mittwoch..Mittwoch used his “privileged” position in Germany (he continued to receive his salary as a German professor until the beginning of the war) on behalf of the Jewish community, he became head of the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee in Berlin. [of course you would know only things up to 1930]

Note that English forces respect to your opponent by having “you” plural, even if you are not capitalizing the opponent’s name. This does not extend to other people you mention, though.

It is a shame of an article was published that bashed Mr. Biden for no reason!

I understand the yetzer hara of people bashing Trump and reaching for criminality trying to connect Trump Tower with Alpha bank .. but to bash Biden – there are literally hundred real reasons. If someone bashes him baselessly, there is literally no excuse. Laziness and lack of respect for truth.

PS Gemora calls us to honor any old person, even if he is not a Talmid Chacham but possibly had difficult times in his life. Biden for sure did. So, we need to respect and support him. Let’s go Biden!

Avira > Aaq, a school that teaches gemara to girls as a part of the class that she must attend is definitely coercion

I agree that this is different from a unique lady who is interested in learning, but I am saying that, as far as I know, most people do not advocate for a universal obligation. Most MO will not call you to teach your daughters Gemorah. Furthermore, as far as a family is free to choose a school with or without Gemorah, and, presumably, the kid has some input in the process, it is not fully “obligatory”

On the other side, my daughters jump away when something might be a “mishna” or a “Gemora”. Maybe they were told that it is bad for a shiduch, not sure. At the same time, they are familiar with most of the material that I overhear from my Daf Yomi, except the pilpul and inappropriate topics. They just were not told at school that these are Gemoras.

philosopher, what is the source of all this information?
all vaccines not producing b and t cells while there are papers measuring them?
can I also translate your suggestion that you borrowed somewhere (could you tell from where, please, so that I can check the source myself) into plain English:
“people should get sick with a new unknown virus instead of keeping away from it or being injected with any of the fully approved vaccines already successfully used by hundreds of millions of people”.

> a physician can not limit himself to protocols. he has to know where and when to apply them.

I discussed this with mathematicians who analyze how doctors work. Main view is that (great) doctors do not follow protocols and general patterns, but they implicitly find in their memory a specific case that was similar to the current one in as many characteristics as possible and use lessons learned in that case. This is, of course, not working with a novel disease and a lot of disasters are happening while following generic protocols until doctors accumulate enough knowledge.

Health > I do that in my house. I have no control any building in Lakewood.

I understand. I am not in such a hoshuve place, but we have plenty of people who do not care. Still, a couple of Rabbis implemented some of the controls, especially those that do not poke in the eyes of the congregants who are against everything. Thus, HVAC changes went better than opening windows and opening windows better than masking.

I think if you have a good conversation opener – either a cluster of cases or a CO2 monitor in your hand with a high value – you might have a chance.

A general outlook on this problem. I think we need to first be humble and realize that “modernity” presented a huge new era that Jews were not challenged with before. There was a lot of upheaval after 2nd Hurban and this is probably comparable. We had several moments with very narrow paths through which Jews developed, such as Yavno; remaining students of R Akiva….

We are “just” a couple of centuries in. We lost a lot – assimilation, Reform, communism, Shoah. It is not just a fault of Reform that they became Reform, but a joint failure of Jewish communities that we did not offer the right response. We eventually developed several models that survived. Maybe if early Reform will see current structures, they would end up at YU or at 770 or at Beis Mussar or at a Tisch, depending what exactly they were searching for.

so, at minimum, we need to appreciate that all current shitahs are part of this survival process and we need to hang in together. We are now wiser than 200 years ago and a lot of “hot” topics are resolved. Not many observant people now are converting to traditional religions, or going into Biblical criticism, or leaving because they need to work on Shabbos.

One item that needs to be clarified: secular studies are not as they used to be!

First, current “universities” are really trade schools at best or waste of time at worst. I measured with kids complexity of American writing using current school grades – modern politicians come somewhere between 8th and 10th grade. So did Andrew Jackson, I think. Madison was at … grade 38. This is about 2 PhDs or maybe “Dr Rabbi”. So, most people now are not going to university to reject Yiddishkeit for some other type of morality. It ain’t there unless it is Yale Divinity School or something.

2nd, we always admitted “yesh chochma b’goyim” and science developed tremendously in last centuries. Talmidei Chachamim were always interested in science and technology and I can’t imagine Rambam not learning quantum physics in our times. And all amoraim discussing natural remedies would be fascinated by mRNA vaccines. One used to have help from heaven to time his tefilah so that you start shmone esre at sunrise (there was no cheap way to measure time at night). Recently, I saw two Talmidei Chachamim arguing about a timing difference between two apps on their respective phones.

These two point do not mitigate everything, of course, such as
1) social problems when kids are sent away from home into coed places
2) all science does not substitute for Torah knowledge and attitudes

RebE> should examine his actions and if not found a reason, than the fault is bittul torah.

Find me someone who paid all his workers on time first (as with R Huna there) and then we can ask him about bitul Torah.

I do like Avira’s definition of mental capacity for learning (limited, but hopefully increasing). So, after you are exhausted your learning capacity for the day, you can come to CR. I think many of us are already following this advice!

Seriously, CR references provide sufficient material for learning. And major part of learning is being able to defend your views against a worthy opponent. R Yohanan would have stayed sane and alive after Resh Lakish petirah if he could have logged in here.

Avira,
I don’t have direct references other than the above mentioned Rav, who had a senior public position in the overall observant community at the time. I don’t think I need to ask further, as this is pure Daas Torah here – first person from a teacher linking to the Gemorah we were learning.

I didn’t understand that the reason was “parnosa”, that is one would lose a job without learning hilchos nochrim. It is because one will be exposed to those people and (a) need to know enough to protect himself, (b) needs to know what to answer to both non-Jews and Jews he will encounter.
So, it is not “forced”, it is just something one needs to know n certain circumstances. You are gonna to be a shochet, you learn cow biology. Gonna to be a professor, learn how to deal with those problems.

In related news, R Steinsaltz was not shy to (occasionally) demonstrate his knowledge of secular history and literature for no other reason than simply increase rapport with students with a good joke. Although, he also signed when mentioning his meetings with senior non-Jewish clergy, saying that he had too much of that.

As to the shock, these were undergrads from MO NYC schools. They were stunned that halakha is not a look-up thing but requires analyzing personality. In general, the Rav told me (when I asked) that his main effort with these kids is to show them that Yiddishkeit deals with difficult issues sometimes and requires thinking. He did not need this effort with non-O kids who would be excited to ponder issues to begin with.

RebE > the problem is if one thinks he is desensitized but he is not.

Agree. But also, there should be a tangible goal why you need it. Otherwise, even a small risk is not justified.

Avira > Bochurim who go a whole week without showering

Can’t skip a good joke  let me know when you have one…edited

Sociologically, I think this is an endearing example of how we get attached to minhagim, even when cold-headed halachik analysis differ (some might call this :minhag shtus”). If Chabad were to have started in Tzfat, this might not have happened. But it became a point of contention (whether back in Belorussia or in NYC) and so it became an important height to defend. Can someone check with Chabad of Hawaii if they also think that it is too cold outside? So, if our choice is to characterize them as rebels or istani, maybe the latter is preferable?

In all such cases, I would be happy if people at least acknowledge that they are doing something unusual and respect the rest of klal Isroel. A similar (you may disagree) case is people who not just keep cholov isroel, but consider the plates of others “treif” and similar cases.

Health,
so if you are in Lakewood, maybe you want to follow up with the mosdos where cases are coming from and check their CO2 levels and train them to set HVAC correctly, open windows, etc in case they are not doing this. If you are short on funds or time, let’s arrange a dead drop near BMG where I can arrange to drop a monitor for you, or you can leave a list of mosdos to work with.

the story I brought above brings a nafka mina for this minhag: when someone else sleeps in a Chabad Sukkah. Are you istanis and respect the sleeping person for his strength, or are you upset that the other person does not feel the kedusha and thus you can’t fall asleep in your house while the guest is snorring outside oblivious to mittele rebbe ushpeznut.

Avira > how weak can you be that you’re so easily influenced

I have explicit psak that the answer depends on the person’s character and life plan. If you plan to go into situations where you need to know this and you can handle it, then you can or should. If not – not.

Thus, assumption that everyone can handle external info is indeed not correct. I can imagine that a MO Rav will tell it to people who are already pre-selected for this. It does not mean that this Rav would say it to a Jew in different circumstances. Sometimes, speakers do not delineate the boundaries explicitly and address people in front of them. A mistake to assume that the same advise will be given to other people (or that this Rav is even qualified to give psak to a different group).

common > I make sure the all my interactions with others should reflect a positive image

indeed, R Salanter says that one should always advocate for Yiddishkeit, sometimes even with words.

DY > Yeshivos are still not fully government funded

is there a percentage? This may be hard to get to the one number, given various subsidies – directly to students, daycare subsidies, subsidies per child, etc. Using R Schach’s reasoning – if subsidies are 80% or higher, you probably won’t be able to restore the funding without the government.

It may be instructive to compute subsidy per person over time and overlay as a percentage of budget. If you then project population growth, ken yirbu, you can estimate a breaking point when this system becomes unsustainable. I don’t understand the data enough to compute this.

answer to my previous question – 4.

that said, people need to understand each other better.
Once a visiting non-Chabad chusid came to sleep in a sukkah at a college Chabad House. Chabad Rov came in and said, semi-humorously, “no sleeping in my sukkah”. The guy did not say a word, got up and left before anyone realized what is happening. Closest other sukkah was 30 minutes away. The Rov did not feel well. The chusid came back for the morning minyan as if nothing happened.