akuperma

To make an analogy to dogs (and in this analogy the Americans are unusually friendly and intelligent canines), the Arabs are and have for most of our history been fairly moderate as beasts go. As long you don’t threaten them, or boss them around, or get in their way – they will probably like you. Around World War I we started pulling their tails and they got very annoyed. We went along with the Brits in double crossing the Arabs after the war ; at first we worked with them for an autonomous Jewish homeland within the large state the Arabs were offered for helping the Allies in the war, but by the mid-20s the zionists were firmly in charge of the Yishua and were supporting the Brits – frankly we are lucky that most Arabs didn’t flock to the Germans in WWII since it might have changed the outcome but the Arabs generally realized Hitler would eventually turn on them as well – the “Mufti” tried but couldn’t find any support.

Based on past experiences, in a post-zionist Eretz Yisrael (i.e. after the haredim become a minority and are willing to compromise on sovereignity in return for peace), the Arabs won’t object to Jews learning Torah (as long as we cover our own bills, and the most frum of the hareidim already do). They won’t draft us (under Islam, Jews didn’t have the right to bear arms). As long as we give them political control and don’t try to impose alien values on them, they will tolerate us. That has been their past pattern and there is no reason to think the past won’t repeat.

We could be active economically, certainly to a much greater extent than under the zionists, as long as we don’t get too bossy. We have only limited political rights meaning we’ld have as much control of the country as we do under the zionists. The legal system would be no more rigged against than it is today, but they would respect communal autonomy.

The hilonim would be the big losers. The infamous sort of tourism that Tel Aviv prides itself on would be banned. You wouldn’t have a Jewish girl at the Miss World contest, nor an Israeli diplomat sat the UN. Pork breeders would be in trouble. While the Muslims share a belief in a welfare state, they also have a belief in not running an economy based on printing money, so no more welfare state to sponge off of.

We should tolerate the zionists treating us as “second class citizens” as long as they don’t do something too oppressive, such as drafting yeshiva students or women. But if they did, they will be approaching a tipping point where it be time to consider going from being second class Israelis to second class Palestinians.

The alternative is to have FRIDAY as the second day off. This facilitates getting ready for Shabbos. As it is most frum Israelis take a half day off on Friday, or take the whole day off. Having Sunday has an official day off puts pressure on people to work on Friday.

There is also the issue of wanting to accomodate the Christians as opposed to the Muslims (remember that the largest religious minority in ISrael are Muslims and their day off is Friday,and also the adjacent countries are Islamic, so that closing on Sunday instead of Friday sends a message that Israel isn’t interested in peaceful coexistence with its neighbors).

Of course there is the option of a four day week.

But what if Meshiach comes and I’m dead yet? Will I get a refund? Will the cemetary transfer the grave site to Eretz Yisrael (they move bodies, they don’t move whole empty graves).

Everyone is confusing standard benefits that Israel pays all resident citizens, since Israel is a “welfare state” on a European model – with specific benefits given to those who are learning in government approved kollels. The former are quite liberal, and go someone whether or not they are employed (regardless of if they are making military goods for export, or empoyed as a teacher in a yeshiva, or whatever) and whether or not they are Jewish (as opposed to Palestinian) or whether they support the state (thus even Arabs who advocate destruction of the zionist state and are working towards that goal will still get the benefits if they are Israeli citizens).

Among good frum Jews in Europe and America the words “Shiksa” and “Shaygetz” were rude ways of referring to goyim or to Jews who act like goyim. Among the secular Yiddish speakers who lived in America in the latge 19th and 20th century (before the holocaust refugees arrived, which for the first time in America including many frum Jews), the words had a much stronger sexual overtone. The terms are well known to many Americans from the frei Jewish usage, and that usage is one that is not proper for frum Jews to use. A correct translation of the word, as used in secular Yiddish, and therefore American English, would not be allowed on YWN.

An interesting analogy is when Alphonse D’Amato wanted to both insult Charles Schumer (then running for D’Amato’s Senate seat) and used a phrase that based on the usage he had heard (from secular Jews) was mildly rude – and in fact in was (in the Yiddish of the frum Jews whose support he was seeking) extremely vulgar and obsence. Unfortunatley, there is some evidence that choice of word is why Schumer is today a leading Senator.

If this is a bricks and mortar class, circulate a condelence card. Make sure it is a secular one (this is likely to be a problem if the college is under some other religion’s auspices). This is what is common in offices. This would especially be true if its a large class as opposed to a small seminar. Another factor is whether you are just one name on a roster, or whether you actually work with this professor (e.g. your advisor, specialist in an area you are majoring in, is this someone you’ll be asking for a reference form, etc.).

Also ask why he let you know. Was he explaining why the papers weren’t graded on time and doesn’t expect a reply? Just saying “I’m sorry to hear… ” is probably adequate in person.

You might check some goyish ettiquette books.

Let’s have more fun with the definition problem – you grew up in Williamsburg but never davened with kavanah, cheated a bit on waiting six hours, talked about politics during davening — then you ran away from home, went to college, wear a kippuh srugah and daven in a Young Israel – but you actually daven during davening, never discuss politics on Shabbos, and learn all day. Or vice versa? Which is OTD and which is a BT?

How about a Shomer Shabbos thief? What about a “conservadox” or “conservative” who totally gives up on kashruth and Shabbos (OTD or doesn’t count to start with). How about a totally assimilated Jew who adopts ingredient kashruth and stops working on Shabbos, but perhaps will turn on a light – but won’t go to his job.

A good frum sociologist might dream up an index to measure frumkeit for comparison purposes. It is interesting to note that frum institutions at all levels are growing, and non-frum ones are shrinking – but that may be due to birth rates more than anything else.

There are two issues that are be co-mingled and are really separate.

One is the specific money given to kollel students for being in kollel. In the future this might be replaced with grants tied to having served in the army. Non-zionist hareidim don’t accept this money as a matter of principle. While these grants are only for the yeshivos, other subsidy programs assist secular institutions (e.g. universities) who have academic programs covering Jewish studies – and these subsidies tend to be more liberal.

The second is Israel’s liberal social benefits programs which benefit all (hiloni Jews, Russian goyim, Palestinians, etc.) but are especially important for hareidim since one of the benefits is a liberal child allowance, and we have lots of kids. Most western countries with welfare states give such allowances (in the USA its a $1000 per child tax credit). One can argue that Israeli can’t afford the liberal welfare state, but try arguing that in a country where Obama’s economic and social policies would cause him to be regarded as a right-wing fanatic (and note that most hareidi Jews are clearly on the far left of the spectrum on economic matters, which in some way reflects our tradition of meeting human needs first and then worry where the money is coming from).

1. No one has done a systematic study, and there are a lot of definitions to be played with. If some is raised Hasidische in Boro Park, and ends up being modern in New Jersey, are they off the derech, and in the reverse, are they BTs (i.e. the Young Israel kid who grows up to be a Boro Park adult)? Lines get to be very fuzzy, especially if you want a clear border between frum and not-frum, which in essence is what is needed for a neat BT/OTD discussion.

2. If you look at published Shailohs and advice columns, you’ll note that until the 1960s you were more likely to read about frum parents asking how to act when they visited their treff kids, and since then more likely to be about the BT kid asking how to deal with their non-frum parents.

3. When secular Jews study the matter, they focus on shul membership, which is problematic since many members of modern orthodox shuls are not frum by any definition, and many orthodox Jews don’t join a shul (especially in big cities, and especially among hasidim – traditionally being a member meant accepting financial responsibility for the shul as opposed to being someone who came regularly to daven there).

You also have to make a distinction between various grants that are available to anyone (Jews, Arabs, Kollel, Employed, etc.), which are sometimes focused on helping large families (again, regardless of job status or ethnicity) – and anything specifically for being in kollel, which might include money paid to the kollel itself which the kollel uses to pay the individuals. The reason this distinction is important is that if the army ties government benefits to willingness to serve in the IDF, the first type will probably continue, and the second type will disappear (at least as far as hareidim who don’t serve in the army). However these are separate types of programs.

It’s long been off patents, available generically, and frequently with a prescription. The seminary can refer you to a pharmacist who knows the local brand name. Why import from America where it is probably more expensive (and may turn out to have been shipped from Israel to begin with, since they manfucture in Israel).

They should ask their embassy/consulate what to do. For getting a non-Israeli citizenship, what matters is whether the foreign government recognizes the marriage and relationship. What the Israeli government thinks of such matters is irrelevant.

Be wary of what you read in the press. Few journalists have access to North Korea, and the sources of “information” are enemies of the regime. While that doesn’t prove the falsehood of the statements, it suggests being dubious.

Enemies of people, especially when engaged in a life or death armed struggle, do tend to be less than objective in reporting (and making up) facts.

Given that in a war the government will depend on the loyalty of the conscript army, I doubt they’ll try to antagonize them by eating their relatives.

1. Choral music raises many shailohs (content, womens voices, words are distracting)

2. Some classical music has an avodah zarah shailoh (a shailoh, not an objection)

3. There is the issue (for non-zionists) that we aren’t supposed to be listening to music for enjoyment while in mourning for Yerusalim.

4. Otherwise, it is certainly prefereable to the usual noises of the “real world” – especially

when commuting.

English is a dynamic language with no language academy. Neither Congress nor Parliament decides what is correct.

Most of the people posting on CR speak a “frum” dialect, which blends many Hebrew and Yiddish words. Just because the Oxford dictionary didn’t hear of a world, doesn’t mean it isn’t a kosher word. While in some countries there is an official dialect and all other dialects and usages are by definition incorrect, that isn’t the case in English. Yeshivish is no more or less proper than the Queens English or Brooklynese or the standard American dialect (spoken in most of America west of the Appalachians and north of the Mason-Dixon line, but not in the places where most orthodox Jews live).

Many times one wants to use a Hebrew or Yiddish word, since English lacks an adequate vocabulary for many Jewish concepts.

1. If you base the Israeli claim to Eretz Yisrael on the United Nations (rather than on the basis of Torah, which raises many issues since Torah was clearly given in order to facilitate doing mitsvos, not building a secular state), then the United Nations can simply repeal its resolution and pick a different one. In addition, the British claim to Palestine was purely based on conquest, and if the Brits had a right by conquest, all the Arabs have to do is conquer and its there’s pure and simple. Over the last 70 years, international law has evolved to the point that no country can claim a right by virtue of conquest – and you’ll note that no country has added territory since the end of World War II by conquest unless they can assert the people support them.

2. My comments on the army were based on being in a regular (i.e. secular) unit. If the army keeps religious soldiers in separate religious units it will minimize the immediate problems but create a discrimination issue that will become a “time bomb.” Problems include fast days (army rules exempt soldiers from working, but units villify those who don’t work on fast days), davening schedules (soldiers are released for davening rather than davening being part of the schedule), disputes of kashruth and the fact that most kitchen personnel are hiloni, behavior of male and female hiloni soldiers in ways we can not discuss (it was with a good basis that some gedolim compared the army to a “Beis Busha” and discussed with female conscripts were considered to be a “shevuyah”). Note the recent incident where some frum Dati Leumi officer candidates were disqualified from becoming officers because they refuse to listen to women singing (i.e. refuse to be present with naked women). Unless the hilonim agree to have the whole army be run based on the parameters of hareidi society, allowing for some separate “Nahal hiloni” units- there will be a serious problem.

3. “National service” is supported only by religious Jews who want to serve but hold they are prohibited (being female). Unless you recognize full time learning as “national service” , it has no support from the hareidi community except as an alternative to military service for hareidi baal ha-battim who don’t want to serve in the army (an option that has been rejected)

4. The government has occasionally arrested hareidim for not serving, and the hiloni press anticpates that hareidi who refuse to serve in the army will go to prison. Unless the medinah agrees to regard hareidim as religious objectors, with the penalty limited to loss of some government fund (similar to what happens to Israeli Muslims who don’t serve in the army, and no worse), a very serious crisis is brewing.

zahavasdad: In response to your “Unless they have US or EU citizenship they arent going anywhere” – once the government starts arresting hareidim for refusing to serve in the army on any sort of halachic grounds (as opposed to at present where people get arrested for draft evasion and paperwork errors) – any Israeli hareidi gets the status of a person being persecuted because of their religion which makes them a eligible to request asylum. I suspect many countries that dislike Israel might be pleased to have them. Indeed, I would be surprised if the some of the adjacent Arab countries would welcome them in order to “show” to the world that their war is against the “zionists” rather than the “Jews.” Draft refusal means telling the army that you are present and able to serve, and are refusing to do so since the army and the medinah are contrary to Torah. To be taken seriously, anyone making that claim should not have a history of being on the government’s payroll. Given that the hilonim are not idiots, and tend to be very sensitive to international human rights laws (which sometimes protect religious minorities), they will probably make the only penalty for draft-refusers is that you lost the government entitlements (to the same extent on Arab Muslims who also don’t serve on religious grounds). If the government were to raid a Beis Medrash and start seizing students it would be among the stupidest things they ever did, and future historians would probably say that it was the point when a single Palestinian state from the desert to the sea became likely.

dotnetter: I am fully aware that modern western education no longer features the classics. You can tell by the quality of the writing. People like Adam Smith (who invented modern economics) and Benjamin Franklin (who when he wasn’t the leading politician of his era, and one of the leading businessmen, was also one of the leading scientists of the 18th century), not to mention people like George Washington (a major player in agricultural research, not to mention a few other things) and Thomas Jefferson – all had “classical” educations. Their proficiency is other subjects including all the ones we consider to “practical” were largely self-taught. The point is that a kid with a pure yeshivish (i.e. studying the Jewish classics) background who wants to enter a career is in no way prevented from doing so, and maybe better off than the typical public school who has been learning how to have self-esteem while being politically correct without mastering either specific academic skills or developing the ability to learn on his own.

Even the “worst” of our schools in secular studies provide an excellent education. It’s the equivalent of the “classical” education that was the norm in western countries until about 150 years ago. They learn they can master hard subjects, learn to work together, learn to work independently. There’s nothing wrong with a “classical” education (ours are in Hebrew, there’s in Latin and Greek). Classically educated people have gone on to mastery of many other subjects. The schools that skip the modern subjects don’t realize it, but they are carrying on a tradition that has produced many of the greatest scholars and scientists of the western world. Only a simple minded person needs to be “spoon fed” everything in school. Most people need to get into the mindset to learn and study (our schools do that nicely), and they can tackle anything.

If they get interested in some other subject, it’s just a matter of getting the book and studying it, and take the test – as many have done. Meanwhile the public school kids often end up being sent to Rikers Island to learn a trade – we can look at Bloomberg at the like and tell them to get their act together and leave us alone.

Remember that in America, one can study on one’s own, and then take the SAT, CLEP, AP exams, and go to a university. Our kids learn how to study on their own, or in havrusa, and are quite prepared to take on subjects if they ever have a need for them.

Patience.

The “witch hunt” type cases tend to fall apart within a few years – so if he was framed, it will come out. Evidence that was surpressed can always be released and publicized once the case is done in the courts. New witnesses, for either side, can always come foreward. Since the case was closely tied to anti-Satmar biases, which are likely to get worse (especially if Israel starts conscripting anti-zionist hareidim, which Satmar will protest vocally, causing more anti-Satmar hatred by many of the same people who brought this case), the issue won’t disappear.

if he wants to marry a girl who wants a clean-shaven boy

Rule for shidduch that hold fast in all situations: Look and act like the person the other person wants to marry

The $100 (Benjamin Franklin) and the $10 (Alexander Hamilton).

In the past, other non-presidents were on them (some of the first Greenbacks had the picture of the then sitting Secretary of the Treasury – probably since he was the one to blame if they didn’t get accepted).

Having segregated “frum” units should be seen as an insult. It means you are fit to die for the army, but not fit to be seen or promoted. The best analogy would be to the famous Buffalo soldiers (“colored” regiments) of the American army that existed from the Civil War through World War II, or the “native” or “colonial” units of the British army (both George Washington and Moshe Dayan served in such units). One should note that neither Goerge not Moshe were known by history as having been enthused by their love of their respective King Georges.

To say the army has changed, the command structure and most units would be frum (i.e. a ban on pritsus, enforcing yichad and negiah, all food being strictly kosher, all work schedules based on Jewish religious observances even if there are no frum soldiers in a unit, etc.), and perhaps having some “special” units for hilonim who while being patriotic zionists just can’t stand frum people.

Almost all gedolim, including many of the “zionist” ones, believe that yeshiva students should be exempt from the army since the work they are doing is at least as critical to national survival. Depending on politics, some gedolim believe even Baal ha-battim should refuse to serve in the army either because the army is anti-Torah, or because the Medinah is constituted contrary to halacha.

If there is a change in policy, we will see the leading yeshivos demanding that they be allowed to sponsor hesder programs, and we’ll see the children and grandchildren of the gedolim joining elite combat units and striving to be officers (and if that happens, you can be certain that exposing your self to naked women will no longer be part of the test for becoming an IDF officer).