Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Go to the park, with wi-fi, log on to the news. It’s suitably depressing. Save the Israeli news for Tisha b’Av.
Welcome to 21st century journalism.
One could try to set up a “newspaper of record” for the frum community with well education salaried reporters – but it would never make a profit.
so doesn’t that mean we are supposed to spend more time reading the news on YWN? Between Lapid, Spitzer and the goyim – it makes it too easy to have less simcha
musser zoger: Actually there were Jews in what is now Pakistan before the war between the Zionists and the Arabs began. In fact many Muslims countries had thriving Jewish communities. Based on the percentage of those who fled to America, it seems they were a lot happier than were European Jews. Whereas the collapse of European Jewish communities had nothing to do with the zionists, the collapse of Jewish communities in Muslim countries (which involve minimial loss of life compared to the massive casulties during the collapse of European Jewry in the 20th century) was clearly triggered by the decision of the zionists to go to war with the Muslims.
Note that the anti-zionist hareidim have no desire to interfere with your war effort. They aren’t planting bombs in zionist yeshivos, or blowing up buses with mixed seating, or attacking your pizza places. All they want is to be left alone. They wish to learn in peace, work at jobs (on the books will be nice, but most manage to support themselves with “unofficial” jobs since they aren’t allowed to work for the zionist economy), and follow a traditional Jewish lifestyle. IT IS YOU ZIONISTS WHO OBJECT. The Hareidim don’t demand anything except to be left alone.
Why we are yelling at each other – there are two distinct groups.
One are pro-zionist yeshiva students who hate Arabs, think the IDF is protecting them from the Arabs, enjoy getting benefits from the medinah, would like to drive the Arabs out of Eretz Yisrael, and are in effect saying “You go fight the Arabs – Kal ha-Kavod … May my learning in yeshiva help you.” These people if they aren’t joining the army already, will probably end up doing so.
The other group are anti-zionists who feel the zionists unnecessarily started a war that was totally avoidable, that trading statehood for autonomy is the only path to peace, see nothing wrong with becoming friends with Muslims, do not see the Arabs as a threat, and question whether it is allowed to kill Arabs or destroy their property since the zionists are the “Rodefim” and a Rodef, unlike a Nirdaf, is required to withdraw from the fight. Under international law, this group are clearly conscientious objectors, and attempts to conscript them will cause serious problems for the Israelis.
So if you trust Obama and Cuomo to tell you what is kosher, rely on the list of ingredients. I prefer to trust our rabbanim. Remember that if something is parve, it has greater value for the manufacturer, and they will complain about the “D” – and if our rabbanim are insisting on the “D”, we should probably rely on them. And if you do rely on the goyim rather than the rabbanim, you can probably assume that the pig extracts and ground up insects are bitul under someone’s shitah.
Why are those outraged as the prospect of a halachic analysis that suggests the war is unnecessary, a view held by many gedolim, and recognized by some secular scholars as well (since had the Jews of Eretz Yisrael settled for autonomy rather than demanding the expulsion or subjucation of the Arabs, there would have been no war) so insistent on emptying the yeshivos and forcing students whose ideology they can’t stand to be in their army. If they feel that the Israel was against the Muslims is a righteous war of self-defense , and that it is a mitzvah, they should be quite content to limit the army to those who wish to do the mitzvah.
Do we conscript people for other mitzvos? Do we drag people off the street and make them learen gemara? Do we raid the nightclubs and other place of disrepute to make women light candles on Shabbos? Do we have an “aktion” against treff restaurants and force-feed kosher food to the customers? If you believe it is a mitzvah to schecht Arabs, why do you need to conscript anyone for your mitzvah?
Or perhaps it is that many secular Israelis have growing doubts at the wisdom of provoking the Muslims into a war by attempting to rule over them against their will, and then seizing their land and “doing to them” as they had been “doing to us”. That certainlyu explains the massive draft dodging (evasion, not refusal) of secular Israelis
The government allows many ingredients (insect parts, derivates from pigs and horses, and who knows what) to be included in a product without having to list it on the ingredients. When you see something with a milkig hecksher, on a “non-dairy” product, you see why no one serious about keeping kosher relies on lists of ingredients and instead, checks for the hecksher.
We can learn from Humash, that the conscription of the Jews, as well as the killing of the Arabs (and lets be honest, with modern warfare, all war involves killing old people, women and children – this has been routine since they invented gunpowder in the time of the early achronim or late rishonim), REQUIRES A NAVI such as Moshe Rabeinu, or consultation with a Kohen Gadol and Urim v’Tumin, and direct communication from Ha-Shem. Without authorization from Ha-Shem, killing people in order to take their land would be murder, and a Jewish soldier would have to give up his life rather than transgress.
Someone, Bennett, Lapid, Netanyahu and Yachimovich really aren’t in the same league of Moshe Rabeinu. Indeed, anyone who mistakes the Kenesset for a bunch of Naviim, or confuses the “Kol Yisrael” (Israel Broadcast Authority) for a “Bas Kol” is either deranged or an apikores.
For good or for ill, which is something reasonable people will disagree over, it is probably the most important factor in determining what will happen to our people in the immediate future. Most Shomer Shabbos Jews live in Eretz Yisrael, and most of our leading yeshivos are there. In future centuries, anyone trying to understand this period in our history, will need to understand what is happening in Eretz Yisrael, and the impact of its government.
Conscription was adopted in 1948-1949. Military service in Israel has never been voluntary since the medinah became independent. The various legal mechanisms have varied.
If they abolished conscription (similar to most western democracies) or allowed for conscientious objection based on religious grounds (as they do for women), a large number of hareidim would work “on the books” (rather than for jobs within the frum community, as they do now). Given the horrendous conditions of military service (from a Ben Torah perspective, a dati leumi baal ha-bayit who follows less humras might find it more tolerable), being registered as learning full time is the only way of avoiding military service.
Mammele,
Patience is good. The fireworks haven’t started yet. If they carry through with their threat of mass arrests, the first “aktion” will trigger massive demonstrations that all will notice, and perhaps set in motion a process that will undermine the continued existence of the state. — or — perhaps the zionists will decide that all they really want is not to subsidize yeshivos and will drop the matter without arresting people and be content to stop funding non-zionist yeshivos
1. It wasn’t that big. The ones in New York and Jerusalem have been much bigger. It seemed like a “me too” demonstration.
2. It’s just “spring training” – the real season begins in a few weeks when (and if) they attempt to conscript yeshiva students (perhaps a better analogy would be to “July 1914” when everything was positioning for war, but war hadn’t broken out yet). I suspect most people expect a compromise (e.g. conscientious objection or psychological unfitness profiles for those who refuse to serve, economic incentives for those who choose to enlist).
3. If they attempt to conscript anti-zionists (i.e. those who hold that a Jewish state at this time is contrary to halacha, and who with a staight face can say they would prefer to live in Islamic Palestine rather than Zionist Israel), they will be able to generate serious publicity that will be exploited by Israel’s enemies (though also, the publicity for a frum peace movement creates many opportunities for kiruv, since many secular Jews identify Torah with militarism and will be impressed to see a very frum peace movement).
One can argue that you should be respectful to secular kings, especially ones who aren’t especially antagonistic me – and that American presidents should be considered in that class (though the job is more like a British prime minister, since under American law either the Congress, or perhaps the “people” and “states” fill the legal position that the “Crown” fills in the British system).
However the mayor is merely the employee of the people, and especially for one who is clearly antagonistic to frum Jews, calling him nothing worse than “Bloomy” is showing moderation.
rebdoniel: Mandela managed to end a civil war that was threatening to destroy his country. South Africa now has free elections and a free economy. Virtually no one thought that was possible 40 years ago. Remember the ruling class were Nazis (the “real” thing – the major leaders of the Nationalist party were arrested during World War II for working for the Germans and came close to getting executed for treason) – real honest to goodness Nazis and Mandela managed to get them to peacefully surrender. South Africa has had 20 years of democratic elections, a loud opposition, and has made it to the border of being considered a developed country. Virtually any other scenario would have led to massive casulties, and the probability that majority rule would have led to a mass expulsion of all non-Africans. That his party went from pro-communist, socialist, and undemoratic to capitalist, western and pro-demoratic — is something he personally did.
Imagine if Abraham Lincoln in 1861 managed to talk the southerns out of having a civil war and agreeing to abolish slavery. Imagine if Chamberlain had talked Hitler out of the holocause and world conquest (well, he thought that was what he was doing). Imgaine if one of the zionist leaders had talked the Arabs out of declaring war on the Jews (as one of the Hareidim tried, before he was shot).
If a spendthrift needs charity (and this is hardly a problem limited to our community) you can give the tsadakkah in ways that thwart their high spending ways. Just don’t give cash. Note how the government limits what foods you can buy with WIC or “food stamps” (should we have tsadakkah vouchers for the same thing). All it takes is a little bit of creativity on the donor’s part.
There is clear historical evidence that in the past, Jews joined in celebrations of the king’s (or queen’s) birthday, showing that in the past pariticipation in a secular holiday of this nature was acceptable (as opposed to one’s with a religious basis such as Thanksgiving, Halloween or Valentine’s Day – which have a religious basis and in the case of the later two involve celebrations that involve multiple shailohs).
Washington – he did more for Jewish civil rights than all the other presidents combined. Starting when he was Commander of the Continental Army, and through the Constitutional Convention and his presidency, he was responsible for establishing the policy that all religions have rights in America (until then it was even radical to suggest that all Protestants should have full rights – including non-Christians was considered as being beyond belief). Jews could hold federal office as soon as the constituiton was adopted, though it was another 50 years before all states adopted similar policies (in Britain it was almost a century before a Jew could be a member of parliament).
If you can someone to certify (as in “give a hecksher”) that the oil, kernels, and additives are kosher, and the utensils have been kashered since the last time they were used for treff — then of course it is kosher. You’ll see a nice big hecksher sign.
Otherwise, assume they’ve used oil and additives dervied for non-kosher sources, e.g. pig fat.
Looking at leading hiloni websites makes it very hard not to see the similarities to Der Sturmer. The truth is that the hilonim see the hareidim the same way the Germans saw the Jews. Ha-Shem had to level their cities and kill all their leaders in order to get them to act in a civil way (while we should thank the Americans and Brits for their contribution, it was Ha-Shem pulling the strings) – we should hope the hilonim will do tseuvah before they get their inevitable “reward” for oppressing the Bnei Torah.
Allowing hareidim (masculine intended, hareidi women are already allowed to work) to work without serving in the army and/or recognizing conscientious objection based on halacha (which is certainly relevant for anti-zionist such as Satmar and Toldos Aharon, and indeed, all groups insisted with the two Eidah Hareidi groups) would be an admission by the zionists that there haskafa may not be 100% in accordance with Jewish tradition – and they aren’t willing to do that. Exempting hareidim on the theory they were too busy learning was a way to avoid confronting the issue, but that is seriously uneconomical and greatly annoys the hilonim.
And to a certain extent, the hilonim are saying that they’ve been told to worship the idol of zionist nationalism, and substitute belief in conquest of Eretz Yisrael for any sort of belief in Ha-Shem, Torah, or even basic morality — and exempting hareidim from worshiping this idol suggests that perhaps the zionist avodah is really an avodah zarah.
The dialect of Yiddish made famous by authors such as “Sholem Aleichem” and the Yiddish theater of the early 20th century is dead and buried, both by the assimilation of American Jews and the holocaust. Modern Yiddish is a vibrant dialect, largely reflecting what had been the southeastern dialect of pre-holocaust Yiddish, and is only recently been beginning to produce significant literature (often in 21st century media that were unknown a century ago). Modern Yiddish is greatly enriched by American and Israeli vocabularly, and is probably as significant a change as occured in Yiddish from the early medieval period through the 20th century. Modern Yiddish is much more reflective of Jewish values than the dead dialect of the early 20th century (and a lot cleaner).
But with anything that is manufactured, you need a hecksher since manufacturers toss all sorts of stuff as additives.
And if it isn’t really cheese, can you trust a company that is passing off something as cheese which isn’t.
The Achdus vanished over a century ago when a large number Ashkenazi Jews went off the derekh. A major factor during World War II is that the hiloni Jews assumed Hitler was only out to get the frum Jews, and were shocked when he turned out not to like good, western, irreligious Jews. In America, the secular Jews actually lobbied the American government not to support acitvities designed to rescue Jews (e.g. bombing the concentration camps and the railroad leading to them). If you try working outside the frum “ghetto”, you’ll discover that most American goyim are quite tolerant and even supportive of frumkeit in matters such as kashrus, Shabbos, clothing, etc. — where as the secular Jews object strongly to accomodation of frumkeit.
Regardless of the halachic definition, for practical purposes a Jew is someone who is Shomer Mitsvos – and defined that way, there is plenty of achdus even between the streimels and the kippah serugahs, and all points in between.
Whereas a penny, even though they switched to cheaper metal, is roughly worth a cent – if a dime was still made of silver it would be worth roughly $3, or if made a silver and worth $0.10 it would be not much bigger than a pencil point.
“rationalfrummie” – actually separate entrances or clincs for men and women would be quite legal in the United States – unlike some countries, virtually all hospital rooms are single sex — bathrooms and changing rooms in public facilities are always single sex – the standard of religious accomodation is that an employer or service provider can not be ordered to accomodate religious practices if it creates a “de minimis” cost, but that such accomodation is allowed and is generally considered praiseworthy — when a university agreed to accomodate Muslims with separate swimming, the objection was based rather clearly on hatred of Islam, not on any gender based theories. Remember Israel is a country reknown for all sorts of things of the type we can’t discuss here (such as “recruiting” young women from other countries to do such things for pay that we can’t talk about in proper company – and advertsing the fact to attract tourists). It’s not about status of women – it’s about hatred of Bnei Torah.
it should be understand that the rules against gender separation reflect not a desire for sexual equality but are based solely on hatred and bigotry against frum Jews – based on what we’ve seen elsewhere we can expect that this bigotry will probably evolve into much stronger measures to reduce the number of hareidim (perhaps following the proverbial czarist formula – assimilate a third, kill a third, and convince a third to leave the country).
Consider the world in 1913 (one hundred years ago, the last full year before “everything changed”). Look at the standard of living typical of Jews, whether the highly materialistic ones on the Lower East Side of New York, or the ones concentrating on Torah in Yerusalayim (then a provincial backwater in the Ottoman Empire). By those standards, is anyone in Israel or the United States really POOR. Today’s paupers live better than many middle class people of a century ago. They eat better. Have more room to live. Have healthier and better tasting food. Have air conditioning. Have access to medical care that would have been the stuff of science fiction a century ago. Face it – we are RICH, all of us. Stop whining.
HURT.
The need to send a message to those working for the government. And Pollard is even less sympathetic since he was in it (at least in part) for the money.
Food: so eat less meat, it’s healthier that way — kosher vegetarians don’t have a significant economic penalty
Clothes: probably costs less to be well dressed – no need for $1000 suits except maybe on Shabbos – fashions change very slowly – if you were respectable in Boro Park 30 years ago, you can still go out in public in the same clothes
Communal fees: they are all need adjusted — most shuls don’t charge unless you want to reserve a specific seat for three days a year, and the fees are tiny compared to Reform and Conservative
THE BIG COST: is the “opportunity costs” of spending time learning instead of making money, and being limited to Shabbos-friendly job, of inability to take advantage of most non-need based scholarships (which it turns out are tied to athletics or military service), having to live in a city with at least basic Jewish services (kosher food, mikva, shul)
The also the expense of having children — Secular Jews have few if any. We spend most of our discretionary income on the kids. They have poodles, we have kinderloch. Fair choice. And I’ve yet to hear about a poodle taking care of you in old age.
All academic institutions, in all cultures, “frown” on students dropping out and “working” unless it is the right sort of work (e.g. teaching the subject you’ve been studying). If you drop out of a Ph.D. program in humanities and become something un-humanistic, such as a lawyer or a mechanic or a businessman, they are annoyed. You’ve abandonned the honorable and worthy life of scholarship for something as mundane as making money.
In a way not dissimilar for a yeshiva, within a short time, you are a distinguished alumni (even if you never finished a program), and would you care to make a donation?
Do you really think we are all that weird?
What’s different is that they are in cultures in which making money is the highest goal, and we are in a culture in which scholarship is the most respected activity. In their culture, women look down on marrying scholars since they fear poverty. In our culture, scholars are looked up to and have the easiest time getting shidduchim. In their culture, parents worry if “little Jimmy” spends all his time reading and not doing what they consider to be good “boy things”, and in our culture, parents are elated when “little Yankel” loves learning and isn’t really interested in sports or games or getting into mischief.
For starters you are talking about American yeshivish, which is based on “Brooklynese” – they don’t talk like that if they were raised in Gateshead or Bnei Brak. Add in pieces of Yiddish, Israeli Hebrew and Talmudic Aramaic,including grammatical variants, syntax and vocabulary, and you get “yeshivish.”
From a linguistics perspective,it is quite fascinating.
Do not confuse the right to own a gun with having one. Unless you like to hunt (very hard for a Yid- we need to bring a goy to eat the treff animal since it otherwise it would be Tsar Baal Hayyim) or shoot targets, it isn’t worth owning a gun unless you have enemies you need to defend against.
In America, there aren’t many people we would want to shoot.
In Israel, the zionists have a lot of people they like to shoot. It isn’t that hareidim don’t have people they’ld love to shoot, but their rabbanim tell them no to.
Define “child abuse”?
The frei Jews include things such as Bris Milah and encouraging children to learn Torah to be child abuse. Do you include not letting kids use the internet or watch television, or making them wear long and unfashionable clothes which would look ridiculous in a “good” neighborhood?
Do you mean the sort of stuff we can’t discuss on YWN involving a child (which the frei Jews like to accuse frum Jews of, but never seem to be able to find any solid evidence which is why many of us compare these to witchcraft accusations)? Those accusation usually involve offenses that would be capital by halacha, which I’m sure you know (you can check humash if you have any doubts).
Ha-Shem’s monitoring them as well. Including the actual contents and screens. Now that’s something to worry about.
Sophie Scholl (and friends)
The problem of integrating the fanatical secularists into a middle eastern society founded on holiness (kedusha) is deeply entwined with the Israeli politics, society and the possibilities of peace with the goyim.
The population of Eretz Yisrael consists primarily of Muslims (remember the East Bank, West Bank and Gaza are part of Eretz Yisrael) who will never agree to being ruled over, bossed around, and humiliated by being subject to rule by others – and all the more insulting since the others are sex crazed secularists trying to spread their perverse view of the world and impose it on others.
abcd2: Which is why I support the Hareidi (e.g. Eidah hareidis) approach – don’t accept money from the zionists. As it says in Pirke Avos (meaning everyone should know about it – its not like its kaballah or something), when the govenrment gives you money, it’s always for an ulterior motive and you should be wary.
zahavasdad: The “bribe” paid to the yeshiovos was in return for having the hareidi parties support the payers on political issues. It was, as they say in American law, good and valuable consideration. In fact, the bulk of financial support for Israeli yeshivos is not the from the government but from private (typically American) sources. That’s why the initial plan to coerce enlistment by cutting off yeshiva stipends failed – the stipends were negligible.
Every election the hareidi parties thanked the hilonim by supporting their governments (the pay back for them supporting Torah). That was the deal. You scratch my back, I scratch yours. You support Torah, we support your coalition.
The problem is that the Torah community kept growing and is jeapordizing the long term hiloni control over Eretz Yisrael. We aren’t will to reduce our numbers, and they can’t increase their’s.
In the time of Haman, we concluded the gezerah was from Ha-Shem, as it covered all the Jews, and we responded by davening, fasting and learning.
Inthe time of the Misyavanim and their Greek allies, since the gezerah was only against Torah (the Greeks loved Jews who gave up mitsvos), we concluded that couldn’t be from Ha-Shem, and responded with “this world” sorts of actions.
The standardized tests (such as the SAT and the LSAT) have nothing to do with “intelligence” other than that the person taking the test has to have enough intelligence to realize that it is a test on aquired skills. Of course, those who believe it is an intelligence test, will fail — and tghose who know to study for it, will succeed.
to popa_bar_abba: The skill of thinking like a lawyer is basically the same as having a good “gemara kup” (head for gemara). It’s the ability to look at system of rules, and to apply those rules to facts. That probably can’t be taught, at least easily (and goes well beyond learning the rules, which is what law schools teach).
The knowledge of English language and substantive academic skills are all acquired by effort and hard work. Even if there is such a thing as an intelligence test, the LSAT isn’t one — it’s a test on the basic skills need for law school and as such, can be studied for.
1. You can always study for the LSAT, as anything.
2. You need a recognized undergraduate degree.
3. Certain skills (writing, general knowledge) need to be aquired before law school. If you aren’t good at learning stuff, don’t become a lawyer.
4. If you are good at gemara, you’ll probably be good at learning other systems of law. If you hate gemara, you’ll probably hate studying other systems of law. If your Rosh Yeshiva is begging you to join the most advanced shiur, and is offering you a job as a teacher – that a good sign you’ll make it in law school. If the Rosh Yeshiva is suggesting you need a real job, law may be a poor choice for you.
5. Are you sure you want to be a lawyer. If you think it is a “ticket” to riches you are mistaken. It requires a serious investment, with a very uncertain return. If the job appeals to you, go for it.
6. That you think to ask “Am I smart enough to go to law school” suggests you are seriously out of touch with reality. That should be corrected before looking for a job.
WIY: All fish we eat are carnivores, as are all the birds we eat (in farms they are given grain for economic reasons, but in the wild they eat insects). The ONLY factor that determines what we can and can not eat is halacha. If Torah tolds to be vegans we would be vegans. If Torah allowed us to eat dogs or bears (which many cultures consider to be edible), we would.
SpiderJerusalem: “People generally do not keep cows, chickens, sheep, or deer as pets.”
Probably because they are too big, and zoning laws don’t allow it,j and because it’s awkward eating one’s pet. However people do keep such animals, including chickens, as pets, and people who raise them see plenty of signs of personality.
The halachas on eating animals are not based on the personality of the animals, since if that was the case we’ld be vegans. It’s based on Torah. Ha-Shem said “eat” and we “eat”. If we encounter a new sort of animal, we don’t give it a personality test – we determine if it is a type of the critters we’ve been ordered to eat, and if it’s a match, it’s dinner.
It depends on how you define “kosher”, and perhaps is ultimately a question for whomever you rely on for halachic decision making.
In the case of literature there are both issues of decency (what we don’t talk about on YWN) and also of apikorses. Many stories such as Moby Dick, Harry Potter, The Chronicles of Narnia, etc., all are considered to have “Christian” themes. For non-fiction what is “kosher” is much more complicated since you read non-fiction not for entertainment but to gather facts to make judgments pertaining to the real world.
Perhaps it would be useful if there was a site that review non-Jewish literature from a Torah perspective (and written by someone who if familiar enough with the goyim’s culture to realize a religious perspective).
By personality, do you mean intelligence, thoughts, feelings, emotions, etc.
Obviously yes. Including ones we eat such as cows, goats, deer, sheep, even chickens. That’s why people keep them as pets. They recognize people as individuals, display preferences for people and things.
We can eat them because Ha-Shem expressly told us we can. Before that we couldn’t. Adam ha-Rishon didn’t eat fleishigs. If you don’t hold by Humash (and the aggados and kabbalah), you probably should be a vegetarian. Even ones we can’t eat (such as insects, reptiles, rodents, etc.) are still protected by halacha from being tormented or treated cruelly.
Assuming he’s not an American citizen, see that’t he convicted of a felony.
If you are doing sociological research on the “problem” of teenage pregnancy, you probably should exclude women who were married nine months prior to giving birth, since the problem group is limited to what is typical among the non-religious populations, namely unmarried girls who became pregnant while unmarried and (presumably) by “accident” (which is what the sociologists claim, though some dispute that).
There is no “passing” score. Each school determines what is the minimum score they will give credit for. One school may require a 50, the other will require a 60.
Why wouldn’t they?
Not having standing means you are excluded from all legal proceedings. Anyone can legally take your property or your person. This occured in English law (i.e., the legal status of being an “outlaw”). It’s not part of our tradition.