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Golly Gee whiz homeowner! It was just a joke!
Health…
Thanks for the “heads-up” on how lawyers operate.
You know at the beginning of this past week, it was so cold that I actually saw a lawyer walking outside with his hands in HIS OWN pockets!!!
(DON’T GET EXCITED GUYS – JUST KIDDING!)
After pogroms, inquisitions, holocausts, and massacres too numerous to count…
The Jewish People still surviving in 5771 and even having their own “state” (such as it is) is extremely irrational.
And yet… it HAS happened!
FORE!!!!!!!!
charliehall…
I do not claim to be an expert on all the various day’os in halacha on this issue. I do know it is generally accepted (even in secular law) that if someone breaks INto your home (and the law about someone OUTSIDE, but on your property, DOES vary from locale to locale) – but INSIDE, it is considered a reasonable assumption by the homeowner that his life is at risk, and it is therefore reasonable to respond with lethal force.
Obviously, no normal homeowner (and I’d like to think that I am one) would shoot, if they saw, for example, an unarmed 14 year old kid had broken in.
Generally though, that is NOT the case. Most intruders are very dangerous individuals, usually armed, and often are druggies needing money, or things they can take and get money for, to buy drugs.
Having to shoot someone, even a dangerous someone that did break into one’s home, is NOT something any normal person WANTS to do.
Some commenters above, mentioned that the pro-gun people here are “Dirty-Harry” wanna-be’s. Although I can only speak with certainty about myself, I’m quite sure that I can safely say about the vast majority of legal gun owners as well, that it will be a very sad, tragic, and traumatic day if I should ever have to shoot an intruder, BUT – the safety of my family MUST and DOES come before the life of anyone who would do us harm.
Health…
From what I’ve seen on websites I use, they will not send these sprays to addresses in New York.
As of about the last 2 or more years, they will not even ship ammunition to New York EVEN IF you send them a copy of your permit.
Health…
In our wonderful people’s Republic of New York City, both mace AND tasers (and stun guns) are illegal.
ronrsr…
I’m sure it is true that there have been legal guns stolen and are now possessed by criminals.
There are also arab terrorists in Israel that have guns that were stolen from Israeli soldiers. Would anyone therefore suggest that Israeli soldiers should not have guns? I don’t think so.
The fact is that it is not hard to get an illegal gun. Criminals do NOT have any problem getting them, and they certainly don’t have a problem carrying them once they get them. Do you know why? It’s because they are criminals. They do not care about the law. Only law-abiding citizens who want guns for self defense have a problem getting them and an almost impossible task to be allowed to carry them.
Something is seriously wrong with this picture.
gavra:
In earlier comments I explained that though I do NOT “have a loaded gun in my night table”, I DO have an UNloaded gun and (seperately) a mag of ammo, both safely out of sight, but both where I can grab them and load my weapon in less than 60 seconds from my hearing the sound of a possible break-in.
As far as giving them what they want…
That’s fine IF all they want is your money or jewelry,
BUT, – sometimes they want your wife or your daughter (ha’mayveen yaveen) and your life/lives.
THAT is why I’m such a strong believer in…
Better to have it and never need it
Than need it and not have it.
THAT is why I try to urge others
to HAVE firearms (and b’ezrat HaSh-m, NEVER need to use them.)
I didn’t even know they had special phones!
deiyezooger…
You could not be more wrong!
Sure, Mordechai and the people prayed. I pray too.
We pray to merit that HaSh-m will do His part for us.
But what did the Yehudim end up doing at the end of the megilla?
They went out WITH THEIR WEAPONS and killed TENS of THOUSANDS of their enemies!!!
By the way my brother…
Locking your doors is a good idea, but any robber with a pry-bar can open a locked door in about 3 seconds, so I would not count on that for protection for your family or as your “hishtadlus”.
Having a gun is NOT AT ALL saying to HASH-M that I can take care of myself. HaSh-m gave me the wisdom to realize what I need to do for my hishtadlus, and if, chalila, I ever need to defend my family with my gun, it will be HaSh-m I will need to keep my hands steady, and make my shot count.
gavra…
You are right.
Having a gun would probably not have stopped the Holocaust.
It’s doubtful if even EVERY german Jew had had a gun if it would would have stopped the Holocaust.
BUT… NOW, with the experience of the Holocaust in our hearts and souls and minds, having a gun CAN, at the very least, keep us from ever again being dragged away like sheep.
AND, having (and knowing how to use) a gun CAN definitely make a life and death difference if your home if your home is broken into by armed thugs.
Good Luck with that mehalaich deiyezooger.
When someone, chalila, breaks in to your home, grab a nice heavy Bava Metzia and hit him over the head with it!
I don’t know why the Chashmonaim didn’t think of your approach.
I can almost hear Mattisy-ahu calling…
“Whoever is for HaSh-m — Come to my house to learn with me!”
deiyezooger…
You must really be a tzadik GAMUR to be able to trust in a naiys niglah to protect you…
deiyezooger…
Did you ever hear of doing your hishtadlus?!?
If an armed thug enters your home, do you feel you, or most of us, merit a nais nigla???
If you really truly believe that “if anything is meant to happen to anyone it will…”, then with that reasoning, you don’t have to look when you cross the street, and I’m sure you wouldn’t mind if your young daughter (if you have one) would walk through the streets of a bad neighborhood alone at night.
I have at least as much, if not more, emunah and bitachon in HaSh-m as you do, but I also know I have to do MY hishtadlus.
When the Chashmonaim went out against the Greeks they had huge faith. These also had huge SWORDS!
“cleverjewishpun”…
You wrote…
“if things get bad enough I would call on the high schools and beis medrish programs to offer some weapons training because its only a matter of time…”
You are correct that this is needed. Not just for Jewish Schools, but for shuls as well.
You said “if things get bad enough…” It’s very sad to think that people will not wake up to this need until AFTER “things get bad enough”. The truth is, that if you mention it NOW to the rov or president of shul, or to the menahel of a school, they will think you are some kind of a nut. It will only be, r”l, AFTER a tragedy, that (some) people will wake up.
EVERY shul and EVERY Jewish School should have (at least one) armed guard (and I don’t mean some old retired cop with a “six-shooter”.)
Aizeh hu chacham? Ha’ro’eh et ha’nolad!
Unfortunately, even with all our historical experience of violence against us, we Jews never seem to learn.
Trying my best…
No, being that I AM in NYC, I can’t get the spray I recommended for BEST IMA. She however seemed to say that she does not live in NYC (if I understood her correctly), that’s why I suggested it for her since she is uncomfortable with firearms.
I live in NYC and hold a NYC Rifle/Shotgun permit.
BEST IMA –
If you really feel you would not be able to fire a gun at an attacker, it IS better that you don’t have one. We would not want, chas v’chalila, that it be taken from you and used against you.
HOWEVER, I think you implied that you live outside of New York City (where anything more powerful than a watergun is either illegal altogether, or requires a license). If that is the case, I would strongly urge you to get a strong pepper spray which could protect you and your family without killing the attacker.
For you and others who may feel as you do, for a powerful, yet non-lethal product, check out…
BEST IMA – A fair question.
Of course no one can really know FOR SURE until you’re in the situation, BUT…
There have been a few times when I DID or THOUGHT I did hear some something in the house, and I was able to stay very calm, get my gun and act appropriately.
True, actually having to pull the trigger on someone IS different, but I really do not believe that if it was necessary, that I’d have a problem doing it. Once an intruder enters your home, they lose their rights. They are no longer a person. They are just a danger to the lives of your family members, and that danger has to be eliminated.
You obviously don’t know me. I am in no way a cold person. I’ll get all teary reading a story about something bad that happened to Yidden 500 years ago, but if someone is threatening the safety of my family, the adrenaline is pumping and there is only one thought in mind – Ha’Ba le’har’ge’cha, hashkaiym le’har’go!
Best Ima – I understand your doubts, and it is good to recognize that you have them. That’s why a person should not just go buy themselves a gun, they MUST be trained technically and MENTALLY how to use it.
Popa – The way you ruin your pants is by filling a super-soaker with bleach!
BUT – you ARE correct, – in a pinch almost anything CAN be used as a weapon…
from a key ring to a comb to a pen to a belt.
Ya gotta get creative when necessary.
To: havesomeseichel – well said! To: others…
When it comes to guns people don’t use logic.
They are afraid of guns.
They are afraid of what criminals do with them.
They are afraid of the sound they make.
They are afraid of them PERIOD – so logic doesn’t work.
How could ANY gun law make anyone safer, when criminals BY DEFINITION don’t care about the law.
Has anyone ever heard of a criminal saying “Well, I DO rob people, I DO deal drugs, I DO rape, BUT since I can’t get a legal gun so I don’t use guns.”
Of course not.
Gun laws ONLY keep law-abiding people from getting guns,
NOT criminals.
As I said, no logic.
Still waiting for an anti-gun person to tell me what he plans to do if, chalila, an armed intruder breaks into his house in the middle of the night…
Some of you would like to know some statistics, – so, here are some statistics for you to consider…
–In a survey by the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, it was found that over 500 rapes and over 1,000 murders are prevented EVERY DAY just by the would-be victim displaying their gun to the attacker (without ever firing it).
–In another survey by the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics 57% of convicted felons admitted they were more worried about confronting an armed civilian, than by being caught by the police.
–In London, 2 years AFTER civilian handgun ownership was BANNED, the crime rate ROSE 40%.
–Norway which has the HIGHEST rate of gun ownership in Europe, has the LOWEST murder rate.
–Luxembourg, which BANNED guns, has one of the HIGHEST murder rates.
–Russia, which BANNED guns, has a murder rate 4 times higher than the U.S. and 20 times higher than Norway.
My fellow Yidden, I realize that for many of you, for MOST of you, – guns are scary, and guns are foreign. Being a victim is MUCH MORE SCARY and can result, chalila, in serious harm, or r”l something even worse for you and/or your precious family members. I urge you to get weapons training. Education will remove your fears and pre-conceived notions, and will enable you to act with confidence to protect your family.
To: Trying my best…
Correct, NOT to mention those times because they ARE SO EXTREMELY RARE!
You know “Trying my best”, your comment reminds me of an old, dark humor anecdote about the early days of the Holocaust (and I am most definitely NOT judging or criticizing any Jew’s actions DURING the Holocaust, because THEN, unlike NOW, such a level of vicious, barbaric, savage, brutal anti-Semitism WAS unprecedented)…
Anyway the story goes like this –
Two Jews had just been pulled from their home and were being walked toward an assembly area by two nazi soldiers (yemach shemam).
One Jew turns to the other and whispers “Hey, Moshe, I know these guys have guns, but there’s only two of them and there ARE two of us, maybe we should try and jump them…”
Moshe turns to his friend and says “Don’t make trouble!”
So tell me “Tring my best”, if you are so afraid of guns, what exactly WOULD YOU DO to protect your family if, chalila, some armed druggie/s broke into your home one night (keeping in mind that it would take the cops AT LEAST 10-15 minutes to arrive -IF you could call them to come at all)?
To: Trying my best…
“Accidental deaths by guns in gun-owner’s homes is” an EXTREMELY rare occurence!
There are THOUSANDS of times more accidental deaths from falls in bathtubs and staircases, gas explosions, ingestion of poisonous household cleaning products and accidental electrocutions.
Would anyone recommend forcing everyone to live in single level homes with no electricity, no cleaning products, and no gas heat or gas stoves?!?
What is never publicized is the THOUSANDS of crimes that are PREVENTED, that are stopped in their tracks, by a permit-holding gun owner just DISPLAYING his gun to a would be perpetrator, and sending him running without a shot ever being fired. Of course, these are non-events, so they rarely get reported, but they are true and significant nonetheless.
A case like that happened to me one night about four years ago.
I thought I heard someone trying to break in at my back door.
I quickly grabbed my gun and went to investigate. Sure enough, I was right! I just pushed aside the curtain over the small window on the top the door, and tapped on the window with the barrel of my gun.
I never saw anyone run that fast in my life.
To: Popa…
I wouldn’t lose any sleep from charliehall’s comment, – everyone knows it was a clearly a joke.
To: havesomeseichel…
Well said. I’ve yet to see a gun jump off a shelf or out of a closet or a drawer and kill anyone. Cars kill a LOT more people every year than guns. Maybe they should be banned too.
Haifagirl…
Thanks for the info on the video
No Guns For Jews.
EVERYONE should google and see it.
Rabbi Meir Kahane ztzvk”l once said in an interview (and I’m not quoting him EXACTLY, but pretty close…)
“I’m known for saying “Every Jew a 22” – I WOULD have said “Every Jew an M-1″ but it didn’t rhyme!”.
Blueprints…
I guess it might be possible that when they see what they are up against, they might laugh so hard that you could have a chance to escape!
OR…
If, after you soak them, you can stall them long enough with some really bad jokes, their guns might get rusty enough to jam!
OTHERWISE…
you’re in a heap of trouble!
LOL! Very cute popa, – but I do hope you have more than “blueprints” watergun (mentioned in the comment before yours) if chalila anyone ever breaks in – AND, by the way…
I heard of two home break-ins in just this past week!
–Also b.t.w. popa (I know you were kidding, but) full-automatic rifles and sawed-off shotguns are illegal.
–Also b.t.w. -for people who WOULD like to have a gun but have heard permits are unattainable, that IS pretty much true for a carry permit for a hand gun,
BUT… a permit for a rifle or shotgun IS pretty easily attainable as long as you don’t have a criminal record.
I can definitely understand the question.
It’s not that you are blaming the person for the bad marriage of their parents.
What would concern me, is whether the person might have subconsciously learned from their parents that if/when you have a problem in your marriage, the solution (rather than working very very very very hard on saving the marriage)is divorce.
The weirdest fear I ever heard of was this…
Years ago I knew someone (not of our “tribe”) who was deathly afraid of heights.
You may think, well that’s not so strange, a lot of people are afraid of falling off of a ladder or a roof or that type of thing.
But this was different.
He was even afraid of being INSIDE a building on a high floor.
Finally one day I asked him. What are you afraid of? You can’t fall from inside!?!
His answer really freaked me out.
He said, “I’m NOT afraid of heights because I’m afraid of falling. I’m afraid of JUMPING. I’m afraid I’ll have an uncontrollable desire to JUMP.”
Gotta admit, I didn’t know what to say to that…
I drove through the wall of a restaurant on my first test, and that no-good anti-Semite examiner failed me for that ONE mistake!
Just kidding… actually, past the first time.
To: ronrsr…
You wrote…
“If a responsible head of household does not feel comfortable with a gun, or if he/she doubts his ability to react well in a panic situation, that person should do the responsible thing and NOT own a gun.”
I do agree with you, – but only partially.
Yes, the kind of person you described probably should NOT own a gun. BUT, – I do think a parent who is responsible for the safety of his family, should take it upon himself to get gun training so that he WILL feel comfortable with a gun, and so that he wont doubt his ability to react properly in a panic situation.
No normal person ever wants to have to confront an intruder in his home, but if chas v’chalila, the situation does arise, one should be prepared for it.
Best Ima…
You are asking a very reasonable question.
Since some family members (i.e. children and grandchildren) do know me by my A.O.M. name on YWN, and might possibly (though I doubt it)read this, I will not answer TOO specifically, but suffice it to say, that the magazine of bullets, is kept in a seperate location from the gun itself (which is kept unloaded).
Both the gun and the magazine are out of sight. Obviously I know where both are, and the gun can be taken from it’s hiding place AND loaded in less than a minute.
I am extremely safety conscious. Just as a point of interest, when I was in my early twenties, I spent a year and a half on a border kibbutz in Israel. I would constantly get into an argument with my Israeli roommate who often did night-time shmira (guard duty). He had a habit, when he would drag himself into our room around sunrise, of leaving a loaded Uzi on our desk. I would yell at him about how dangerous that was because young kibbutz kids would often come visit us in our room. When I saw he was ignoring my warnings, I started removing the magazine from the gun myself and hiding both the gun and the mag in different places. After his having been annoyed by my actions several times, and having to get me to give him back the Uzi and the ammo, he finally got the hint, and started to do the right thing on his own.
So, yes, keeping a gun safely is an extremely serious responsibility, but, it CAN be done.
Every RESPONSIBLE head of a household should definitely have a (legal – i.e. with a permit) firearm in the house!
Of course with that ownership comes the responsibility to know how to use the gun AND (yes, “BEST IMA”) how to store it SAFELY so there is no chance of it getting into the wrong (small) hands.
I have possessed (legally of course) a rifle in my home for over 20 years and feel it is a necessity.
Now more than ever, with the terrible economy, robbers are becoming bolder, and we are hearing of more and more cases of violent home break-ins, EVEN when people are at home!
If, chas v’shalom, that should happen to you, what will you do?
Call 911??? Even IF you have time to do that, (and I hate to have to be so blunt) by the time the cops arrive, you and your family could be dead!
If you say you will daven, that’s great, but HaSh-m expects some hishtadlus as well – and hishtadlus these days includes gun ownership. If you think you are safer here than the commenters above are, who live in the Shomron, DON’T be so sure!
Like the saying goes…
–Better to have it and not need it –
Than need it and not have it!
I think the problem goes even further than the disease of “reform”, “conservative” and “reconstructionism”.
Although we in the frum community may not realize it, tragically, there is a very large percentage of our brothers and sisters who are TOTALLY unaffiliated with, and are disconnected from, ANYTHING Jewish (EVEN the above mentioned deviant movements).
The fact that their parents “were” Jewish means less to them than what their parents’ eye color may have been. To most of us this is incomprehensible, but having known people like this, believe me, it IS true.
These people are not to be hated or despised, they are true tinokos she’nishb’u. They have not abandoned Yiddishkeit out of laziness, rebellion, or self-hate, but out of TOTAL ignorance of their heritage.
The ONLY answer is outreach and kiruv.
Eglah arufah is NOT a mitzvah you are able to be mekayaim, so you wouldn’t be considered to be mevatel the mitzvah.
But… by simply wearing an arba kanfos beged, you ARE able to be mekayaim the mitzvah of tzitzis, SO – if you don’t do it when you CAN, then you ARE being mevatel a mitzva a’say.
As I said above, the vast majority of poskim feel that lack of techailes is not me’akaiv fulfilling this mitzvah.
The consensus of the chachamim seems to be that one can (and should) be mekayaim the mitzva of tzitzis withOUT the techailes.
The correct source of techailes, is, as I’m sure you know, in doubt. There are those who feel they DO know the correct source, but there is machlokes even among those people as to what that correct source is.
Undoubtedly, the ideal way for tzitzis to be made IS with techailes, but rather than risk using the wrong dye, most poskim hold to do without the techailes altogether.
To answer YOUR question, by not wearing an arba kanfos AT ALL,in view of the above, we would STILL be mevatel the issue of techailes, AND we would be mevatel the entire mitzva of tzitzis.
That professor who went on the “twinkie diet” was NOT advocating doing that as a real diet!
He was just trying to prove the point that one has to watch one’s calories, and that cutting calories will lead to weight loss.
He was NOT suggesting that twinkies provide the nutritional needs necessary to stay healthy.
Sam I Am….
And what about the “CHArDAL” category (CHAReidi DAti Le’umi)?!?!
As charliehall said (above) – there IS a LOT of overlapping of your categories.
What is the point of making up all these group names, it just causes divisiveness, when what we need is achdus!
Rav Avraham Yitzchak HaKohen Kook zatz”l even criticized making a division between chareidi and “chofshi” and said we are ONE people and all of us should be called by ONE name – Klal Yisrael!
In Kidushin it discusses the obligations of a father toward a son.
One of the possible obligations discussed is teaching one’s son how to swim. Rash”i asks why, and answers that maybe he will be in a boat that is sinking, and if he can’t swim, he’ll drown.
I would suggest that in the world we live in, and with the rising rate of muggings in our own area (don’t believe me, ask anyone in Flatbush Shomrim) that learning self defense falls into the same category.
WIY…
I understand what you are saying, but more than I worry about ending up in jail, I worry far more about the defenseless yeshiva bachurim and baalabatim who have “EASY VICTIM” written all over their faces.
They, in their innocence, read the comments here, and as a result are afraid to learn how to defend themselves, because of an exaggerated fear of “going to jail”.
Even in a worst case scenario,
I hold by the old expression that says…
“Better to be judged by twelve, than carried by six!”
It’s very commendable that so many commenters are worried about hurting (or worse) their attackers.
I’ve never heard of any muggers, etc. worrying about what harm they may do to US.
Being that we are all members of a group that has been beaten, raped and killed by experts for the last 3,000plus years, I would say let’s learn to defend ourselves (from proper teachers who teach proper hashkafas along with the skills) and worry about OURSELVES FIRST. Once we are at that point, we can, if necessary, discuss further the other legal and ethical issues that go with having these skills.
To paraphrase General Patton… “It is no kiddush HaSh-m for a Jew to get beaten up, it’s a kiddush HaSh-m when a would-be Jew attacker learns that attacking a Jew was a BIG mistake!
If we have avairos in our past, of course we should have charata and do teshuva for them.
Regarding “wrong” choices in our life, I think that, after the fact, those things were probably meant to be, and when, at 120, we get to the olam ha’emes, and have a better overview of our entire existance, we will see that those choices perhaps were not wrong after all.
Remember, even things we did “wrong” can teach us lessons we might not otherwise have learned.
Rabbi Frand (already mentioned above)
Rabbi Eli Mansour
Rabbi David Sutton
Rabbi Akiva Tatz
In Hebrew:
Rav Eliyahu Godlevsky
Rav Amnon Yitzchak
Any time spent listening to any of the above, is time very well spent!
Charlie Brown…
If goyim laughed at ME in the scenario you described,
I would laugh back at THEM, and say…
“Why are YOU dopes laughing at ME, I have YOUR money, and will give it to a JEWISH charity!!! Throw some MORE!!!”
If Yaakov could go back for “pachim ketanim”, I can bend down for a penny.
My feeling is that if HaSh-m put it in my path, it was for a reason, so even if I feel I don’t need a penny that much MYSELF, I’ll pick it up and put it in a pushke.
It’s very similar to Torah Ve’Daas or Torah Temimah. It has many excellent rebbes and teachers. It has a pre-school, elementary, and high school.
There are some chasidish rebbes, but it is not a chasidish yeshiva. It is your “basic” black hat yeshiva.
I personally sent all my boys to the elementary division and had absolutely no regrets.
Real silver IS toxic.
The product called SeaSilver did NOT actually contain silver.
I am not sure if it is still being sold, but NOT because of the silver issue. I believe they were just making unsubstantiated claims about the health benefits of their product.
GPS’s are for WOMEN!!!
REAL men can find the destination without no girlie GPS!!!
(just kidding)
“eclipse’s” ideas (above) are all excellent, depending, of course, on the person.
I’m not sure how you came up with the $5,000 amount for the seforim store though! Depending on one’s financial means, even 50 or 100 dollars would be nice.
Remember this: Men are basically just older boys. We like our toys. So, other than seforim, most (not all, but most) guys like our adult toys, which, as eclipse mentioned, include things like electronic gadgets, tools, etc.
Shaitel Wearer…
Yes, DO watch the clip.
The judge said NOTHING about numbers. She said she read to the people at Georgie’s what was on the tag.
Maybe it was a name, maybe a brand. She said NOTHING about a number. You said there’s no way she could know if it was a custom piece. Not so. IF the tag said, for example, Estee Lauder, or Revlon, or the name of some other inexpensive wig company or wig style, she COULD know it was not a custom (Georgie) shaitel.