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Increases Chardei violence obviously, one of the worst years ever, if not the.
10952 can you please detail where there is Halachik violation ?
Midwesterner, if they want to, they should move to some Yishuv where everyone is like them.
If you are living amongst other types of people you can’t be violent for no reason.
Does this make sense to you? do you want to have a war every day?
What if they would start up with the wrong person who is armed and kills the violent Chareidi, is that oK? It was self defense.
You see, where this all leads to?
It starts with these sick protests over how someone observes Tznius.
Observe she does.
Peaceful protest such as explaining why your Tznius is better is one thing.
But they never protest peacefully. Please show me one time they did.
So, if you already know that for decades no Chareidi protest has been peaceful, why would you think this time it would be,
Also don’t forget the excrement throwers, that has been lost but it did happen also.
The whole concept of marginalizing others leads to this.
So overall it is better to stop with the protesting, perahps you can see this.
I don’t expect they will though but a miracle is possible.
Is he always quiet on date, or are there cases where he is interested in the girl and is still quiet?
I think he needs some therapy in how to make a conversation, the art of, if you will.
He can ask her some quesitons, what does she do, what sort of things she likes, her family, where she grew up, school, etc.
there can be a list of things he can ask. Each question will generate a response and possibly a question from her.
Other areas of interest, travel, politics, learning, reading.
Perhaps he should keep the first date short, perhaps 90 minutes.
So he won’t run out of points on that list.
If there is interest a second date should have some activity be it a lecture, a shiur, etc. so they can discuss this.
If the interest proceeds further I believe he should tell her that his is not comfortable with conversations like that and let her decide how to take that.
By keeping his secret it won’t help.
Hatzlacha, it sounds like this is solvable.
I am not bashing Chareidim you keep repeating that lie.
If you are interested I daven on Shabbos in 2 different Lubavich Shules for many years. One Friday night and the other Shabbos day.
So please try to stop lies about me.
Means I daven in Nusach Ari, and I learn Chassidus to the extent it is talked about, one shule is not only talking about Chabad but general Chassidus.
That is why your lies are very hateful and wrong.
I stil do not understand on what basis people are allowed to attack verbally someone who is obseving Tznius according to majority opinions, on what basis are you allowed to attack someone for not following a chumras and where does it end these attacks.
And it’s not a few spitters or cursers. it’s been going on a long time. I lived next to Meah Shearim, called Beis Yisroel. Constant cursing and shouting at others. CHildren being trained to attack secular, I saw this.
This is the crux of the disagreeement. You want to sweep everything that happens, it’s nothing, every group has their crazies.. my point is that it’s instilled in people from early age to be against other Jews and this is wrong. It is picking on people for alleged aveiros and ignoring their own averios, it is hypocritical and not Judaism.
alluring wigs is Halacha? It’s a style. A an expensive lifestyle choice. The question I have is, is the majority of hair covering sufficient. There is majority of opinions to rely upon.
SO this machlokes of the Mother not fully hair covered is a chumra machloikes.
no one was rejecting the culture of Tznius, I don’t get that last paragraph. They seem to be blaming the victim here.
The statement is not strong enough. They need to condemn the entire mindset that denounces Jews who dress differently or who daven longer or shorter. Who are not in their minds, ‘as frum as we are’.
mdd, that is insulting to millions of Jews. WHy are you allowed to insult ? You are distoting and ruining the Torah.
and while we are on the topic, most of the wigs they wear are more alluring than their normal hair anyway.
How did it work with Hillel and Shamai did they come to blows did one spit on the other or call the other’s wife a Shiksa?
who is heath to decide who keeps the Torah or not and on this basis you decide that you hate this fellow Jew?
Please stop calling me a hater this is your specialty, to name call, perhaps you spend too much time thinking.
Please stop calling me a hater. This is what you do in every post about me. It makes you look pathetic.
No person has any right to judge another Jews if there skirts are too long or not.
You are clearly spending too much time on areas you should not be focusing on.
this is not representative of Torah at all. You are missing the point.
Have you heard of Ahavas Chinam, Darchei Noam, 70 faces to the Torah, middle path (don’t veer right or left). Your support of violent extremism is way off the mark of Judaism.
This extremism includes observing and focusing on a womans fashions, what she is wearing.
sure it matters for those in that mess. I have friends who have kids who have been kicked out of Yeshiva for smoking Cannabis, and for engaging in relations with opposite sex. now these 2 are one is completly otd and the other is just about. You can see them in SHule twice a year.
The reasons are certainly important to help others mainly.
How to get them back to Yiddishkeit is a different topic, you should help others to prevent. Even though each family dynamic is different.
But it’s not just the spitters and the cursers, it’s the whole system that decides that they are the real Jews and everyone else is a heretic. Here in Monsey, children call someone a Jew with a knitted Yarmulka a goy. So where do they learn this from? It’s a distortion and hijacking of Judaism and is totally unJewish to act this way. And if you object to the spitters, and the violent demonstations, then you are guilty of Sinas Chinam, I am told that I hate all Chareidim.
All this poster Health has done is to try make sure I will never feel comfortable amongst Chareidim again. But it won’t work because I know many fine Chareidim, but it is time for Chareidim to stop feeling so superior to other Jews particularly those not CHassidic or outward looking Chardie. Yes and the infighting amongst Satmer as well when is that going to stop and against Lubavich.
Oh it’s only a few sure. It’s many more than a few and these have the support of many.
Yes I am also very embarrassed by the publicity and worse I fear the repucussions in Shomayim to these violent Chareidi acts.
So then, it would be ok for secular or non hassidic Israelis to curse and spit, at Hassidim who happen to walk in ‘their’ the non Hassidim neighborhoods? Who are offended at their dress? No one has any right to do that sorry. its a 2 way street. respect for all. If you see something that you don’t like, look away.
ANd you see where this cursing and yelling, leads to? Even you are against the spitting, but once you set the stage to violence this happens. I hope it doesn’t get worse.
how is this flaunt in your face?
Here you have shomer shabbos people who are dressed Tznius. What power gives these Chassidim the right to denounce them and spit on them? As if there is not crimes of all types by the Chasssidim, or are you thinking they are all pure and holy ? what Kedusha, the chassidim in Beis Shemesh have now defiled whatever Kedusha might have been there. Please stop posting assumptions about posters.
Please stop Heath stating lies about what I and others think. You look very stupid when you argue that way. I probably shouldn’t even point that out, the more yo do that, the more ridiculous you look. But I don’t want to because that is not my way.
Not true at all about those leaving Israel. ALthough that was not my contention, you will find people leaving from all sectors of society. if anything more frei return after a few years abroad, going to University, or starting a small business. There are no laws that prevent Israelis from leaving, you are telling lies again or you are not informed. GO to any large city in any country in the world, you will see Israelis living there, many of them do return to Israel. I happen to know many Chariedishe Israelis who are in America for Tzmitus.
It’s high time for these extremist elements to stop, as well as the general feeling in the Chareishi and Chassidesh world that the are ‘better’ than people who don’t dress like they do.
The attitude is here in the states also.
Heath, the chassidim there are entitled to beleive that the tznius is not ‘good enough’ and maybe that they can try to educate this woman in the laws of Tznius but they are not entitled to rein violence as they have been doing. they can get away with it because the Israeli government is feckless and does not enforce the laws that these chassidim have broken. the spitters are not afraid of any long term jail sentence that will not occur. In CHu’l they would be arrested and locked up for many years so they don’t do these things, and possibly the chassidim have different sort of leaders in Brooklyn that does not encourage such vile acts.
It is not as if these chassidic communities are not without internal problems of their own, they do not need to pick on and bully others who are different thant they are.
Have you ever heard of living together peacefull,? Shevet Achim Gam Yachad?
Do these Chassidim who spit and yell, do they honestly think that Hashem is happy with them?
Why this focus on Tznius on other people, is this a coverup of all the aveiros that occur in the Chassidic commnuties?
Old man, Israel is a democratic society you want to build a school, you can, you follow building codes and laws.
If they don’t like it there they should move to Brooklyn, let’s see them spit on people in Brooklyn and get away with that crime. they are lucky the Israeli government is too prissy and lets them get away with these crimes.
Basically they come up with new Chumras because they are insecure or are trying to make a name for themselves. It’s not Yiddishkeit at all.
Having said that there are so many cases I see of families that don’t some of them are not Tznius dressed, some of the girls are more dressed for the beach than a simncha, and others are fully covered teens from Beis Yaacov style, in family occassions, so much love in the room at a family simcha, why can’t it be that way for everyone?
Emunah 613,but this is a major escalation of long time Haredi violence against people not frum, Now its’ against people not who don’t dress exactly like them. Frum they are not.
and this violence has been ongoing there for over 10 years i have been there as well.
I am waiting to hear condemnation from major Hareidi and Chassidish leaders and poskim. Head of the Edah Chareidis, or Rav Shternbuch who called for demonstrations last year when that parking lot was opened on Shabbos.
Don’t you think these leaders set the tone for violence that leads to this, can you honestly think of something more despicable and painful?
I lived in Beis Yisroel neighborhood in the 1980’s and there was constant shouting at women then, “Kurva” “Pritza”
who supports who teaches people to do this?
But the good outweights the bad.
Usually someone already tried drugs/alchohol before going to Israel. In many cases, in fact, it is easier to avoid since they don’t know anyone at this crack sq. and would have to spend time being ‘vetted’.
There are many more cases of kids getting away from the connections to that they already have and getting inspired from being in Eretz Yisroel.
the other case of someone who never tried drugs/alchohol and then trying this in crack sq. is also less likely.
they wouldn’t know how to act in such a setting.
they would likely be introduced by a friend in the seminary or yeshiva (And/or).
This can happen but as you see, it’s a minority of cases.
THe ones who used D/A in their hometowns and then go to Israel with every intention of immediatly using, would have continued to use in their hometowns anyway.
The issue is recovery and theauputic programs to offer them alternatives to drug/alchohol use/abuse.
I don’t think the present system is 100% but it’s close enough.
The question is would the Tzibur be willing to pay more for everything to ensure a higher level of Shmira.
I would put in cameras at all points of the restaurant and have someone review the tapes regularly that could find a problem.
There many Frum employed in the field but not enough to get 100 % of the staff.
Again, would you pay more to have frum people.
He should also have hope that she can change. Was she always like this, or when did she change? He must have loved her at one time ?
It’s a gamble if going out there again and looking for someone and paying child support will be better.
He should make many learning sedarim and do things to relieve his depression. Depression for him is the worst of this.
Is he happy in general despite this woman?
He should find an excellent therapist with the goal of having her join. He should try to be BeSimcha and sing Zemiros, and make the best possible for the children. Maybe he can take a hobby like a musical instrument or art, this would help his depression.
While I didn’t care for his music at all, he was Mekarev kids, which is more than I can say for myself. So my hope is that he finds a home in MO as opposed to Chassidish.
OK Poppa, but its’ a developmental addiction. I thought those beers were higher sorry. It;s just a very large portion.
OP, don’t serve alchohol, grape juice and make those funny looking colorful drinks.
No don’t serve them alchohol. There would be peer pressure to have some if everyone else did. It might affect their judgement regarding a Shidduch.
Popa, you are definetly drinking to excess. you are absorbing amounts that I used to drink as well. To get buzzed, blitzed, sedated.
I strongly urge you to give up the alchohol. Can you go this Shabbos with no alchohol?
BTW, you are also spending good money from what I can see, you are spending over $50 a week on alchohol am i on target?
Not everyone can afford a kiddush or like to do that. Why can’t people decide how to celebrate?
Back when I had a more comfortable living, i also made Kiddush for my daughter, it was over $1000 for a little kiddish. so maybe people can save on that by making it in the house. and maybe they are more happy to have a couple of Brachos made what is the big deal? Is everything new automatically rejected?so lets not use those smart phones for Mincha- Maariv, or learn Gemara from a Torah web site, or listen to Torah tapes in the car, or use Nanny’s to raise their children. There is all sorts of changes that have been made from how out ancestors lived, why is this need to pick on something when it comes to women, we raise our muscular sensitivities.
“I get my sense of morality from what chazal say.”
Yes but Chazal were living in a time where women were considered less important than men were. Why can’t we say that the Chazal were influenced by the general societies they lived in. Or say that they were in retrospect immoral as regards to their views of women, being on the same level of children, and amei aretz.
Do you beleive that to be true?
Because I don’t. Yes there are differences between the sexes but I dont’ consider myself automatically smarter or more qualifies than my frum neighbor, who owns a global software company that she is the brains behind, growing it from a hubby and wife consulting team to employing thousands of people world wide.
“bit weird to say that chazal’s thinking about women was influenced by the drunken goyim in their Babylonian villages “
didn’t say that. Are all goyim drunkards are you saying.
Just like today we are influenced by outside society so were they.
That is, all socities did had a lower opinion of women than modern society does; (no voting rights) now we have women running global corporations, something unthinkable in those times. Why can’t we say that the Gedolim were also influenced by the socities they lived in to a degree?
The fear of this Simchas Bas is that it will lead to something else. I don’t see the linkage though.
edited. You may state it as a question.
I’ve noticed with computer help there is never any offer to compensate. I usually just do the help if I have the time. I look at it this way. I need a lot of help in general so if I can help others I should do so.
Nechoma, what you say makes absolute sense regarding football but then the addiction theory kicks in. I can put my desire to watch NFL games in remission but not fully kick the habit.
Basket ball maybe also but less so. Baseball there is limited chance of severe injury ( you can make the same argument about doing dangerous professions, can one be a cop?),
but football Lechatchila, is barbaric. On nearly every play the hits they make on players are extreme.
Perhaps this is why American society itself is so barbaric.
Is there no Rebbe or grand Rabbi who can fix this? is this depressing situation completely without a remedy?
OK sorry bout that Shraga, I didn’t see this info on the site. It mentioned 50% so that I asssumed that the other 50 goes to the site.
I dont’ know, first you talk all about Tzedaka, and now its’ about promoting your site. Usually you have to pay for promotion and advertising. Everyone’s time is valuable. But it’s a clever idea you have there. Only thing is, how does the consumer know that you can be trusted with this 50% THING. I didn’t see any bio’s or faq’s about the people behind this site. You have to understand there is so much fraud in the world, it is most common to have fraud when someone says, we are giving 50%. Sorry if I am being negative just pointing out realities.
Shtikel.
I would guess it comes from German Stuck meaning stick or piece. so shtikel means little or small amount, so that’s not a good case.
Don’t know if there are any really. People usually use fargin as The example.
In many cases abusive parent(s), and not achieving in school; also having right friends, or not having friends, being turned off by the hypocracy. These are the main issues for kids in high school and post.
older people may not fit in the Shule(s) they live in, not attaining friends as an adult is just as difficult.
We should not be so quick to label though. Someone can’t go to Shule, let them sit home and daven/learn, we dont have to name call.
Sephardim would have intermarried also much more. I have made this point many times as well. Also what you call frei, in many ways the frei’ in EY do more Mitzvos than others. Many keep kosher most of the time, observe some Yomim TOvim, and know Loshon Kodesh. here @ work for example we were short 1 person for Mincha minyan the other day, so I dug someone out that I knew was Jewish but he told me he can’t read Hebrew. This would not have beent the case there. At the least they could be told what page and could daven.
I beleive that those so opposed to Zionism is a power struggle, they would rather have the power.
Also the Ruchnius is much stronger for the average frum person there, here in Golus the Gashmius prevails in all sectors.
sorry i should edit that. you can die from too much alchohol. i guess when we say ‘getting drunk’ we mean several drinks not bottles.
It’s a wonderful life there, I wish I could go back. Your daughter can get drunk anywhere. Wasn’t there something like that in the Catskills just a couple of years ago, so that they had to start some kind of free evening, bowling was it? i saw ads this whole summer, girls only. Oh so you think that’s it, the problem is solved? you think there are no more drugs and drinking amongst kids from ‘the best families’? it happens in every community, no need to blame Israel.
heck getting drunk once or twice is not that big a deal. most are sick from it and dont drink again. worse is having only a small amount of alchohol and enjoying it.
person getting drunk repeatedly has problems that should be addressed so actually their getting drunk there, could be valuable to address their problems.
There’s alot of very good music being made. It’s sort of like Chazzunus. It’s something to listen to that can be inspirational a form, of prayer. If we look at the musicians creativity as ultimately coming from Hashem then why only listen to a few people from previous years? The issue may be as you get older, can you relate to the younger person’s Torah, or in this case, form of prayer.
I think the OP should get help for herself. She needs to see the beauty in the other person. Let me preface this by saying that I am in sort of the same boat. WHat is boils down to, is lack of compatibility. Start going to marriage counseling and offer him to join. It may be that you can change also. Of course, divorce may be the answer but I would take the opportunity to learn for the future then.
He doesn’t sound presidential plus he’s been around for eons. the trend is to go with an up and comer. He is also to the right of the Rep. and the trend is more to the middle. Otherwise he is intelligent. I have read some of his books, very well written.
I don’t like the way the 21K is just thrown around. There are many people who can’t afford to send their daughter away. The way you state it, sort of like a joke. what me worry style. I wish people would show more derech Eretz to poor folk. I was able to send me daughter but we got a reduced rate via the Masa web site, and she had gotten some grants from her high school so it cost us 5K. Still we preferred not to spend on her coming back for Pessach. Most of the kids do. We didn’t visit as a family although I made a winter trip. THe story would have been just as impactful without mentioning the money part.
It is expensive but then so is all the years before what with the tuitions.
I still think there is a positive atmosphere in them going. Regarding the carousing with opposite sex, it’s not everyone in my daughters case there was none of that from her seminary. and how do you know what you saw was seminary or Yeshiva boys, they could be tourists visiting, it is after all the in thing to do for Succos. Its probably more about feeling connected to Eretz Yisroel or not. and again, I understand the finances part.
in the car yes. lately I started recording it and I thought to make a podcast but i realized podcasts with only one person is highly boring.
I don’t think you ever detailed what was so horrific in that sem.
If you did I apologize. Not knowing this detail but obviously she was uncomfortable with something.
I was sent to a Yeshiva highschool in Israel for 10th-11th grade i hated it, but there was no other option that my parents would consider.
In the final analysis I turned out relatively ok so hard to say
what difference it would make had i left there or not.
I so hated it that I caused physical damage to their alarm system so that on Purim it went off in the middle of the night.
The ROsh Yeshvia was very angry and while they had no proof it was assumed that it was me.
Beyond that I then went OTD for about 14 years. So maybe you made the right choice.
HOw come we dont consider AK as tinok SHenishba? as it were. If someone grows up in public school environment why we would expect someone to behave any differently than all her peers?
It’s probably that they drink alchohol all year in so called moderation, a little after the HafTorah, more at the Kiddish, wine at lunch, brandy or Shnapps also. They wait for couple of big events during the year, incl. weddings, to drink much more than normal. IMO, they are alchoholics and should be encouraged to go to AA Meetings. I am speaking as one, with 4 plus years of no alchohol and loving it.
No that’s stupid advice. Part of the reason there is a shidduch crisis is because of the over-reliance on the third party. In earlier decades Kosher Yidden met on their own, through the shule functions or whatever. They made beautiful families and the infrastructure for latter day ascetics to malign.
The crisis is too serious to be relagated to silly arbitrary rules like not talking to a girl on your own.
So you keep on your ways, and report to us when you are engages, married, and have children. You are too wrapped up in labels and
affectations to see the reality of life I am afraid.
Yes use a Shadachan if you wish but don’t deny others how they want to go about this.
Regarding the holocaust and shadchanim if that Rov said that there were more Kosher Yidden over others that is disgraceful you are wasting your time talking to him.
This is a very sad thread to read but tell us of your progress.
“After World War 2 many people were single, and older (Holocaust survivors) so the Rabbanim made Heterim for marriage without Shadchanim (when media was still in black and white). However these were not the Midos Chassidic people. The ‘holier’ Yidden even in this time with these circumstances used Shadchanim.”
This is offensive and you lose any legitimacy you may have had. Who the heck are you to judge people who went throught the holocaust and then did or didn’t use a Shadchan? It looks like you copy pasted this from some sick web site, please edit that out in your future postings. Edit out the moral high ground when talking about a situation you have never had to face.