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RebYidd & Joseph
The 13th Amendment abolished slavery so no one can enslave anyone else. The poor in away are enslaved in the welfare system the can’t earn much more then they already earn otherwise they lose benefits.
This ensures they never get out of poverty. Likewise people who lack reading comprehension usually get scammed which is another reason they are poor.
You got a better chance of the Board of ED paying the tuition for normal private school students via a voucher plan than your Literacy & History tests in order to vote. As it is you only get 50% -60% of the eligible voters actually voting when all it takes is a minute to fill out a form to vote . Who is going to spend the time to take these tests just to vote.
Joseph
Only a little over 50% vote in presidential elections. In random testing of the man in the street by radio shows 4 out of 5 couldn’t say who was the president, nor who was their congressman or senator. Yet when asked about a singer or actor 4 out of 5 knew the correct answer.
Using your logic only taxpayers should be allowed to vote. But only something like 47% of the population pays taxes.
They can’t even require photo id at the polls and you want want an informed voter! An informed voter would vote most of these bums (congress person) out of office.
Reb Yidd123
The prohibition of eating blood is only animal blood from the Torah. The rabbis prohibited all blood because it could be mistaken for real blood. So for example if your gums are bleeding. If you bit a piece of bread and there is blood on the bread you must remove the part that has the blood although you can swallow the blood in your mouth.
It is the same as Copepods as long as they are in the water they are permitted but once they are on land they are prohibited. Here too the vampire sucks the blood directly from the person it would be permitted. If the vampire was to open a bottle of blood it would be prohibited.
If you needed to pass a literacy and history test 50% wouldn’t pass.
As it is you need to take these tests in college otherwise you have to take remedial courses in your freshman college year. It would be unconstitutional to deny them the vote.
You would be surprised by the number of people who have trouble with reading comprehension.
Don’t forget that in Bloomingburg, NY they disregarded almost all the Satmar voters in order for them to get their man elected mayor. The Satmars are currently suing the town.
Voting is very sacred and you shouldn’t be able to take it away.
writersoul
I presume that the vampire in question is biting and sucking the blood of a human which is permissible as long as the blood has not gone out of the body. The vampire sucks the blood directly from the neck to his mouth. However if it came out of the body into the air and the vampire sucked the blood off the skin it would be prohibited by the rabbis.
I wonder if they have a coffin in their living room. I am told they are very comfortable and they make a good conversational piece.
Who is the computer for? If it’s for you get any desktop computer with at least 200 gig hard drive.as long as you don’t have a wifi card your ok. The Problem is if you have a kid he can slip in a wifi adapter which cost a few bucks, into a usb port and you would never be any the wiser.
You should also delete internet explorer from the hard drive. You are going to have download programs. Otherwise it will just be a paperweight You are going to have to use XP or prior as your operating system.
Das Yochid
If you are having a conversation with someone, usually they are not dead. So the last funeral they attended wasn’t their own.
Does anyone know if a Zombie touches you do you become tuhmay? Do they ( The Zombie) have the din of a dead person? This is a good question for a girl to ask a boy on the first date. Especially if she isn’t interested in another date with him.
Why can’t you be neither part of the problem nor part of the solution? You could be above it all.
MA
You can just as easily put the product and google it. This way you don’t have to even get out of your seat. and still find the cheapest place to get it. Many BJ’s are kosher on the eastern sea board so their baked goods maybe cheaper then your kosher bakery. Day old bread and other baked good are reduced in price but still taste fresh. Likewise, because some types of kosher meat are reduced on Sunday because they want to get rid of it.
Education
One of the ways to get out of the poorhouse is by getting a degree. If you can there are many programs such as CLEP or AP. If you take their exams and pass you will get college credit. Also if you went to Bais Medrash or Seminary you can get college credits for it. CLEP Exams cost $80.00 per exam but are usually worth 3 credits. AP Exams cost $91 but reduce it by $29.00 for low income students. The advantage is that you can use older books which are free if you can borrow them from the library or cheap because they are a year or two old. But it requires dedication you must study every night in order to be ready for the exam. You can go online and watch videos of college courses and then take the exam,
Since you are poor you will qualify for a lot of student aid. Only take grants not loans. If you live in NYC you can register with CUNY college and your grants should cover all of your tuition and even pay for some of your books. With your degree hopefully you will get a good paying job.
Under Obamacare everyone is suppose to be covered for health insurance. If you are poor I believe you are qualified for a subsidy. I think you can earn up to $94,500 for a family of 4.
(This is for NY residents but may apply elsewhere.)
If you don’t eat out and economize you can save a lot of money. For instance buy items in bulk and when on sale, like rice, macaroni and oatmeal, instead of meat, fish and potatoes.
Make a budget and stick to it. It will show you where you are spending your money and where you can cut back and save.
If you have older children who are working ask them to contribute.
Even if they are not contributing to the family budget you can and should take them as dependents on your income tax return. You will be saving more than them as you are probably in a higher tax bracket then your children.
If the child is not contributing to the household nor are you declaring him/her as a dependent you don’t have to include their income in household income for governmental benefit purposes. If you don’t believe me ask a local accountant at shul. or google it.
Depending on where you live you may not need so many cars. Try walking it is healthier. For example walk to and from shul during the week. You will be surprised how much gas you will save. If you live in NYC you really don’t need a car a savings of about $9.000 a year.($6,000 between gas tolls and maintenance and $3,000 in insurance.) You can use mass transit to go anywhere. You don’t have to find parking nor worry about tickets. If you need groceries the stores delivers it for a few bucks extra. Its worth it you don’t get a hernia lugging it to and from the car. The few times you need a car you can rent it.
If you need to earn a few bucks you can work as a stock boy filling shelves at the local grocery store late at night. Or you can drive for a car service such as Uber and earn additional money that way.
mazaltov
You have been able to find people who need your “office work” service. What you need to do is call other people or businesses in that industry and see if they also need your services.
If you live in NYC I would advise you to go to the Brooklyn Business Library located at Cadman Plaza which is wheelchair accessible.They have all types of list of people and their phone numbers there. Or you can try googling for clients or ask your friend if they know anyone that needs you service. You need to sell yourself, that is the only way you will find clients and make money.
I would like to apologize for the crude remark I made regrading those who would feed non-kosher food to Jewish special ed kids. I am sorry if I offended anyone.Using their logic they should be feeding their own minor (girls under 12 years old and boys under 13 years old) children non-kosher food which everyone would consider a sin. At least everyone who is yeshivish, but what do I know.
This year Lakewood School District’s budget has $26 million for special education the majority of it goes to special ed for Orthodox students who go to private schools. In order to get private placement of special ed the parent must convince an administrative law judge in a hearing or a mediator if it mediation, that private placement is in the best interest of the child. One of the reason the parents are winning is that yeshivas speak their language (Yiddish), know the culture and can provide kosher food which are services the public school can’t provide.
Currently it cost the district $65K – $70K per child per year for private placement special education while the same services provided at a public school would cost $35K – $40K per child, per year, If these kids would be in a public school it would save the district over $30K per child. If you take into consideration that the state pays $30k per student attending public school, your net cost is only $5K – $ $10K per child a savings of $60K per child.
In order to get these children into the public school,the district will have to win the hearts and minds of the parents of these special ed kids convincing them that the public school is better in the following way:
1) Better facilities.
2)Better Kosher Food
3) Better Yiddish & Hebrew Teachers
Special ed is a mandated service which is not controlled by the school monitor he can request a hearing but it will take up until two years to get a hearing during which time the child remains in the yeshiva. And unless he can prove that the public school is better for the child by providing these services he wouldn’t win. In fact he can actually lose as besides paying legal fees for the parent and the school, the parent can win additional services such as summer camp (school) which will cost an additional $14,000.00 per year for at least the next two years.
I would like to wish you all a happy and healthy new year. I don’t expect to convince you to my way of thinking nor will you convince me to your way of thinking.
Mammele
There are those who feel that since they are special ed, their souls are pure and they are not held accountable for their sins. So even if they eat non kosher food their soul still remains pure. While these students are not held accountable These people don’t realize that by allowing these special ed student to sin they are abusing and debasing the special ed student’s souls, no different than the Kapos in the concentration camps. The only different was the Kapos abused their fellow prisoners’ bodies while these people are condoning the abuse of the student’s souls.
Many of the yeshivas have their own school buses and if they have the contract to bring their students to school the courtesy school bus students could still be picked up, the yeshiva just wouldn’t be paid for them. For example if there are 8,000 courtesy students and there are 100 yeshiva in Lakewood if each yeshiva swaps 80 students from the other yeshiva and now the students are 2.5 mile from their new school every student is mandated and entitled to free busing.
The same problem is going to happen next year unless the state changes how they fund yeshiva busing. They can’t cut busing because it’s mandated & Special ed .require an Administrative Judge and a hearing to cut.
According to the Asbury Park Press the school monitor decided to go with separate school busing for yeshiva students all of which would start at around 9:00. All Courtesy busing which will effect 11,000 students, is canceled and after school programs have also been cut.
It seems the school monitor got a pair of letters from an attorney, David J Butler, who according to his website is into class action suits. This maybe why he decided not to implement co-ed busing.
By law parents must be notified by 8/1/2015 of cancellation of school bus service
The Yeshiva Administrators wants busing for all and no mixed busing.
The State Monitor wants co-ed busing with one bus route for all students in the district.
The yeshivas could get separate busing by having the boy school start at 7:30 for Sacharis, morning prayers and having the girls start at 8:15 also for Sacharis, morning prayers. This way the boys are on their own bus the girls are on their bus and public school kids are on their bus.
As to busing for all . The Administrators have to swap students. So that a student that is a courtesy busing student in Yeshiva A is swapped with a courtesy busing student from Yeshiva B so that they are both mandated. This will necessitate the opening of additional classrooms. All the yeshivas have parking lots and if each of the 100 yeshivas put 3 modular classrooms there, it would open 10,000 additional seats at a minimal cost. The threat of having an additional 10,000 students on top of the current 25,000 maybe enough to convince the state to fund yeshiva busing separately.
The State Monitor saves money if the same buses used for the boy’s yeshivas are also used for the girls yeshivas and the public school students, just at different times, the cost should be less as there is no need for additional buses. The reason for the co-ed busing and to cut courtesy busing was just to save money which he has gotten. Both sides could claim victory.
zahavasdad
To create a school district you need a law sometimes called an act, to be passed by both the State’s Assembly and Senate and signed by the Governor. The chances are slim that this will happen. While it took three times for it to happen in Kiryat Joel we now have a blueprint as to how to do it constitutionally as this was litigated in both state and federal courts and most state law don’t vary from state to state.
As to the difficulty in designing the district so it doesn’t include public school students. Many of the new developments such as Westgate which are fully frum, so they have no public school students. And there are many senior communities which don’t allow children, they would want the lower real estate taxes which they would get due to fact they are not paying to educate thousands of kids. Just maybe a hundred special ed. kids. So it is possible although not probable.
2016 is an election year and with the right incentive the politicians may pass the act creating a Jewish Lakewood school district.
As far as razing their homes in Lakewood I think it highly unlikely. However there was a case in LI Grumman Aircraft destroyed their own building in order to get a reduction in real estate taxes after they closed a production line. I don’t know if the Jews moved out of Lakewood would someone else move in. In Newark ,NJ and Jersey City, it has been over 50 years since the riots and it just started to make a come back even though it is close to Manhattan, has mass transit to NYC, and a view of the Hudson River and Manhattan skyline. What make you think that Lakewood would be more desirable? When razing the homes care should be taken not to rupture any home oil tanks as they will contaminate the soil. This maybe why the land will be vacant.
Does anyone know whether the state law that allowed the NJ state monitor to takeover the school board is even constitutional as it allows a bureaucrat to override an elected school board and is taxation without representation? Was it ever challenged in court?
A simpler solution is to encourage the gentiles to move thereby lower the purchase price of houses. Lower real estate prices equal lower property taxes. With fewer public school students and a growing private mandated busing expense eventually the school district will go broke.
Another alternative is to have the state break the district in two, one district for the Orthodox Jews and the other for public school supporters. This way Jewish Taxes goes to school busing and special ed for the Jewish students. Public School supporters’ taxes go for the public school and busing for their students. The only problem is the public school supporters wouldn’t generate enough income to support the public schools students.
Some of you will say it unconstitutional, the separation of church and state. But it is already done here in NY in a place called Kiryat Joel. It was declared unconstitutional twice but they just redrafted the law creating it until it could pass all constitutional questions brought before the court.
Taxes are very high in Lakewood. In NYC which is a high tax area, I have a house that’s assessed at over $800K and pay $6K. In Lakewood a $240K house will cost more than $6K in property tax. Where does all the money go?
Syag Lchochma
I do not know how it is in Chicago but here in NYC they have them in group homes that are sponsored by Jewish Organizations, the male separate from the females. If they get married they get them an apartment. If they are functional enough they get them jobs. The group homes provide not only a place to eat, sleep and take their medicine but also provides entertainment. The homes makes sure he goes to sleep and gets up on time and get along with his housemates. They can live there and are provided with clothing and spending money whether or not they have a job . These homes are only available to developmentally disable who are Jewish and Orthodox. Someone who went to public school wouldn’t fit in.
There are secular group homes also, some are very good but there are also those who take anyone, and this can sometime be very dangerous especially if a roommate is off his meds and is violent.
Since English is your first language, your statement “Here in Chicago they will need to be in jobs in the secular community”.
Shouldn’t it read “Here in Chicago they will need to be employed by the secular society, so while a Jewish education is a top priority so is reading and writing in English equally important”. Are they really into these jobs (you used in 3 time in the first part of the statement). Also are you saying that grocery stores are only secular? Are there no Jewish grocery stores in all of Chicago? Likewise are you saying the only employers in Chicago are secularist. I know the city is in a financial crisis and Rahm Emanuel is your mayor but I didn’t know you need his permission to hire someone. I could understand he might not to want hire more city employees during the fiscal crisis but having the power as to who gets hired or fired this sounds like Communist Russia in the old days.
Nobody said anything about keeping student away from the English language. The reason the parents don’t want the their children integrated in the public school is because whenever it was done Jewish kids come home with X-mas and Easter decoration besides toy from McDonald and Burger King. Who knows if the children ate the burgers or not . Although the parents have warned the schools many times it still kept happening so from the time Kiryat Joel School District was approved and on at least here in New York there will be no integration between Jewish special ed students and the public school student.
Syag Lchochma
I think you are right we are talking about two different things.
In Kiryat Joel School district all the students who are are taught in the public school are taught in Yiddish and the ratio of is one teacher per six students with three paraprofessionals. Both the teachers and the paraprofessional are special ed certified. And by the way it cost them around $75,000.00 per child. This is the type of special education that I am talking about. In Monsey they have a public school program solely for Jews because of kosherous and the need to teach in Yiddish taught and staffed by Jewish Special Ed certified teachers. And they do not teach Jewish studies. According to the the principals of the school it is working fine but some of the non- Jewish parents in the school want them to be integrated with the rest of the school. If they try to integrate the program all the parent will appeal. If they appeal the program must by law, the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act the school must leave the program as is, until a mediation or hearing is made as is their right under the law. They can appeal to either have the program left the way it was or they can request to be transferred to Kiryat Joel’s Public School which will cost almost double not taking in to consideration transportation cost.
I know many yeshiva are not geared for student that have attention disorders. There are drugs that can regulate it so that they can be an A student. The school you are probably referring had a teacher student ratio of at least one teacher per 15 or more students with maybe one or two paraprofessionals. From the way you are talking about it, the teachers and paraprofessionals probably weren’t special ed certified. The idea of Special Ed Yeshivas is great and people would be fighting to get in but the only way to afford it is by having the state pay. It just to expensive to pay via tuition and fundraising.
I have a friend who is Hispanic and as a boy came from Ecuador. The first year he was in the US he was in bilingual(Spanish) education.He convinced his mother to get him out and he learnt English, most of the kids in his bilingual class remained in the program until graduation and never learnt proper English. The same thing will happen here once a kid is in special ed in public school, he or she will remain there until they graduate and their soul will be lost forever.
The Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, (IDEA), and provides parents with the right to resolve disputes with your school district. There are two ways to resolve disputes, mediation and through a due process hearing. If parent goes through the due process hearing and wins the case the parent’s legal fees are paid by the board of education. If you don’t believe me you can google the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act.
The student who doesn’t speak English but is taught by the public school and learns anyway is to be commended. But the parent is suppose to advocate for their child so that the student can get the best education available. By denying their child the services he needs they are no different than the person who is entitled to food stamps (SNAP) but starves themselves and their children rather than take it. Special Education is an entitlement which any parent can ask for their child.
There are three levels of special ed in Lakewood Premier which cost $140,000.00 per year (SCHI), standard private school (Bais Faige) which cost $70,000.00 and the public school which cost about $40,000.00. If the parent uses mediation they loses their rights to have their legal expenses paid by the board of education if they win but can use an advocate who will present the case but at a much lower cost. Mediation is a middle ground as long as they have a decent case the will get private placement, even though they may not get the full $70,000.00 private placement services. The next year the parent can always appeal again.
If the parent goes for the formal hearing it’s like a court case and a judge rules based on law. If a lawyer is used and the parent wins the board pays the legal fees, but it must be a lawyer not an advocate. Many lawyers take these cases so that if the parent loses the parent does not have to pay.
Most of these children start school at age 4-5. At this age the developmentally disable can not speak any language and since they have other problems it maybe impossible to prove which language is his mother tongue. So everyone is telling the truth. When in doubt the judge or mediator will usually side with the parent.
As far as babysitter who don’t speak English . These children get Reshab or Dayhab which is a someone who acts as a shadow and stays with the child. This person is paid by social services (the local government agency) and must speak the child’s language plus English. Why do they need a babysitter who does not speak English nor the child’s language, if they already have someone watch the child who does?
I would like these children to be educated in a Jewish environment and grow up to be Jewish. It appears to me that some of you would rather the special ed kids be raised and live as a goy. Perhaps that is why he was born to remedy a sin in a previous lifetime but this time remain a Jew.
A school bus holds 49 children and the school monitor’s busing route is to have the buses go up central street and have pick up students from all the schools on the same bus. If the bus picked all 49 students and each student goes to a different school and it takes 10 minutes from one school to the next school, it would take 480 minutes or 8 hours. If a van was used which hold 19 children it would take 180 minutes, three hours. This does not take in to consideration the time to pick up the students nor the time to get to the first school. It also doesn’t take into consideration the driver’s lunch break and coffee breaks. By the time they get to school it will be over. Also if the student are on the bus more than 3 hours the students will need lunch too. The drivers are going to be making overtime. Before this change the driver worked maybe 2 hours in the morning and 2 hours in the evening every day or 20 hours a week. Now they will be working 9-10 hours in the morning and two hour in the evening 55-60 hours every hour over 40 hours per week, that 15-20 hours overtime,which is usually time and a half. Who is going to pay for this? If it’s the district, busing expense just tripled and if it’s the bus company they will be bankrupt within the month.
I am not saying this will happen but it could happen.
Syag Lchochma
The Special Ed that I am referring to are Developmental Disable most can’t speak period. You are correct that if the STATE doesn’t accept Federal Funds than the parent is liable for all their legal expenses. But Federal law states that if you take any federal funds for any type of educational and deny special ed services and the parent appeals and wins the Board of Education pays the parent’s legal fees. Since every state takes Educational funding any board that denies special ed. services and loses on appeal and doesn’t pay the parent’s legal fees risk losing all their federal educational funding which can run into millions of dollars a year.
You are right that there is a lot of testing by both the board’s experts and the parent’s experts. Everyone agree these children are special needs. The question is do they know and understand English. But when the child can’t speak and has mental problems besides that how do you know if the child understands English.
If you feel that there is no need to educate a child in a language that the student understands you are warehousing the student and should change the name from Board of Education to BOARD OF CORRECTIONS because that where they are going.
Also if you are saying before anyone is placed in outside the public school there is all types of documentation why is one of the complaints that the Lakewood 5 Towns & East Ramapo Boards of Education is that the special ed is too expensive. Everything is documented. Now if you are going to say the board approve special ed without documentation, that would be theft of service, a criminal offence. These boards are audited every year by the state and if they did anything criminal they would have been charged and the state would have taken them over.
There are two types of special ed. One is for example for the child who has trouble pronouncing words or reading ,while he other is for someone developmentally disable. It is the developmental disable that cost between $40,000 in a public school to $140,000 in a private school.
Each and every special ed student is evaluated by the board of education and a plan is made as to how he or she is to be educated. If the parent agree then the child goes to public school. If the parent disagrees they get a lawyer and they must convince a judge that the public school is not in the best interest of the child. The easiest way of proofing this is that the public school doesn’t speak the child’s language.
As to the question do any of these special ed students understand English? The answer is probably yes but their lawyer shows in court, that they only speak Yiddish thereby requiring private placement. You must realize the lawyers take these cases on contingent. If they win they get paid by board of education if they lose the case they get nothing.
As to the claim that public school only have to teach in English and/or Spanish. A normal child who only speaks a foreign language and is not being taught in that language can and will be granted private placement otherwise you are just warehousing him not educating him.
Mandated School Busing in NJ which is free to both public and private school students who live more than 2 miles from their school and are in kinder garden through 8th grade or 2.5 miles for high school students and whose school is nonprofit and within 20 miles of their home. The district must provide the bus service or pay the parent or the service provider $884 per student per year. If the changes their starting time so that they start at 8 instead of 9. The co-ed busing is dead as the public school students would not be on the same bus as the yeshiva students. The centralized bus route will require numerous buses one could be for boy the other for girls. Boys will only go on boy buses and girls on girl buses. The sex will be determined by who gets on the bus first.
As far as Special Ed that two is mandated. These students require teachers that speak their language and know the culture. Monsey does have a program in the public school for them but it’s total separate from the rest of the school. Special Ed in the Monsey public school cost about $40,000 per student per year while private school cost $60,000- $75,000 and Lakewood placed some students that cost $140,000 per student per year. Private special ed. is only authorized if the parent appeals the school placement in a public school. This appeal is via the courts and as per federal regulation both sides legal fees are paid by the school board.
It is not the Jewish resident that are causing the problem. State law limits the amount a district can raise Property Taxes. It is actually the seniors who started limiting property tax increases.
It’s a state problem they have to provide school busing for ALL Mandated Students. If they can’t or don’t, NJ law states the State must pay $884 per mandated student per year, to the service provider as compensation.
As for special ed since this requires that the student understand the teacher it requires Yiddish or Hebrew speaking teachers. Likewise, they need to know the student’s culture which is not always available in the public school.
Joseph
Jews can live anywhere, this busing problem is going to be everywhere there is a large enough Jewish community. 2016 is an election year the Jewish Orthodox voter have to be united and tell the politician that if you want our vote you have to solve the school busing problem and penalize the taking over of elected school Boards. An example, the taking over of a school board, unless criminal charges are filed against board members, will result in residents of the district being exempt of all property taxes and the state must reimburse the municipalities for the loss of tax revenue.
In addition even if charges are filed a plan to return the district to the newly elected school board’s control within a year must be made. Failure to return power to the newly elected board will exempt resident from not only property tax but a reduction of 5% of their income tax per year. So if his taxes was $100.00 he only owes $95.00 The second year he would owe $90.00. A state Monitor can be in place but if he has veto or overriding power the penalties kick in.
If it’s tucked into a Federal appropriation bill it will pass who would oppose a bill saying that a bureaucrat can override an elected board and the penalty is the residents are exempt from paying property tax. Besides nobody reads the bills anyway.
The state monitor is protecting the public schools at the expense of private school students. While his idea of co-ed busing is legal in that private and public school students can be on the same bus. The problem is going to be dismissal time public school end at 3-4 PM while yeshiva end 6-9 PM. Since the monitor can’t provide busing for dismissal of yeshiva students the state is mandated to pay $884 per child per year for their busing This will come to $17,680,000.00 and come out of the $151 million district budget. The private student’s parents or yeshiva may have to sue to collect. If the district loses and can’t pay they either go bankrupt in which case a judge is in charge or the assets (school buildings) are auctioned off for pennies on the dollar or the state pays. If the state pays the $884 will probably go to the yeshivas and once that happens it will continue in the future. As to if it gets deducted from the district budget that is between the state and the district but there should be no complaints about mandatory busing at the school board district level. Also once the state pays the yeshivas voucher will be the next step.
If courtesy busing is eliminated as planned it will effect over 50% of the public school student and can cause at least a drop of 10% in school attendance as students will have to walk to school in bad weather. This will cost the district $15,100,000. The reason for the monitor is to get more resources for the public schools and what he is doing is just the opposite.
The state is only suppose to take over a district, is if there is criminal activity or if they are failing to provide for the students. Here the board is trying to allocate the funds so all student benefit. If the board had the guts to take on the monitor, they could sue him in court and all the legal fees would be paid by the state (taxpayer). Otherwise you need a pro bono lawyer or someones is going to have to pay which is expensive. But once the case is filed people are going to join in as a friend of the court. For example districts that were taken over by the state and want control back, civil rights groups that want to limit bureaucrats’ power, those who want school vouchers and those who want to fight the unions. On the other hand Gov. Christie was in Lakewood and spoke to R’ Kotler the leading rabbinic family in Lakewood NJ who is in mourning for the lose of their mother. So maybe a deal was reached or R’ Kotler didn’t give them permission to sue yet.
edited
It seem that Gov. Christie visited Lakewood and visit the Kotler family, the leading Rabbinic family, who are mourning the loss of their mother, as per photos in Yeshiva World today. Who knows what was said or promised.
Burnt Steak
All students living within 2.5 miles of the school will be denied access to school busing as per school monitor.I know you think low income students are going to walk up to 2.5 miles in rain , snow and boiling hot temperatures just to go to school. The problem is, it’s not the yeshiva students who won’t go to school, rather it’s the public school students who are lower income, and even with busing, they are more likely than higher income students to drop out of school.
Yeshiva Parents will drive their children to school but putting another 5 to 15 thousand cars on Lakewood streets will create traffic jams. Which may prevent emergency vehicles from getting from one part of Lakewood to the other. People living near the yeshivas will be unable to get in or out of their driveways, because parents will be double parked for blocks around the yeshivas in the morning, waiting to drop off their children, and in the afternoon, when they are picking them up, as the school parking lot wasn’t designed for this volume. This will lower property values and many of these home owners who are not orthodox will sell their houses. This will result in lower property values, lower property taxes and fewer students in the public schools. All of this will affect public school funding.
edited
Lesschumras: The “State” was also elected by voters.
The State was not elected by the voters, only the governor and the legislators were, all the rest are bureaucrats. In our system of checks and balances, only the judiciary can override an elected body. The executive can veto legislation but cannot change it. In this case the school monitor is a bureaucrat and is doing the overriding.
Now if the state of NJ would exempt the Lakewood residents from paying taxes, both real estate tax and income tax, it would be fine. I would say the state monitor can do whatever he wants, as there is no taxation without representation.
The problem is, if we don’t stop it in Lakewood the same thing will happen in NY. Just this year in NYS a similar school monitoring law passed the assembly but the Senate wouldn’t take it up, so it died. But they will try again next session.
School busing for private students in NJ has been a right since 1927. This right is not in every state for example Maryland citizens do not have this right. It is no different than the right say, to be able to walk down the street without being searched.
In NYC the police had a policy called stop and frisk, in order to get guns off the streets, people were asked if they are carrying a gun and many times frisked. The police maintained records of this and apologized if nothing was found. The fear of being caught with a gun was enough to keep the guns off the street and preventing thousands of crimes. Since this was done in high crime areas blacks were more likely to be searched. In fact, it was proven that hundreds of thousands of blacks were stopped unnecessarily each year and a court ruled it was a civil rights violation.
The question is not, will Yeshiva students come to school? The question is will the low income public school students drop out?
It is the public school student’s attendance that determines school funding a 10% drop in attendance = a loss of $15.1 million per year. Last year the district owed the state $1.5 most likely due to attendance.
As far as getting any additional funding, last years they got a 9% increase via property tax referendum not going to happen. Also the United States was founded under the concept of no taxation without representation. Since the State overrode the elected school board the property owners should not have to pay that portion of Property Taxes. This will require a court case. But if a case can be made that the state took over the district just to deny yeshiva student from getting mandated benefits they will win and get a reduction in taxes. The State will have to either increase its contribution or the district will have to cut expenses drastically. Also the ability for the state to take over a school district maybe limited. Once the school board is in charge of this district I think many of the school administrators will be looking for a new job.
If you watch the Lakewood BOE State Monitor video, the co-ed busing is not school busing, it’s commuter busing. Basically the bus will be running down centrally located avenues, picking up “people” and dropping them off at schools. It will be one trip there and one trip back. The bus driver will not wait. If a student is running late he/she will miss the only bus to or from the school.
This is a new concept and will not work.
A) Will the bus driver be able to verify the students? Anybody can wait at these bus stops and get on the buses. They can’t verify that they are picking up mandated students. Example: A student who lives within the 2 miles walks a block or two to the bus stop and takes the bus reserved for mandated students.
B) By having the bus stop away from the house it just makes it easier for some of the students to be abused or victimized. You are going to have high school students and first graders on the same bus, it a recipe for disaster.
C) Many students will miss the bus. These students will not attend school that day and will cost the district $151.25 per student per day. If they are absent (unexplained) more than ten days they may have to repeat the school year. Which in turn will result in a higher dropout rate. This is besides the courtesy bus student that will be dropping out.
D) What happens if a student doesn’t get off at his/her school or misses the bus on the way back, whose responsibility is it to get the student to the right school or home?
The way I see it, the district can either provide school busing which is door to door, or the state pays $884 per student to either the parent or the provider for school transportation.
A state Audit of the Lakewood School board revealed that in 2012-2013 their was 4902 students. In a foot note it said school real estate taxes increased 9% in 2014. The current budget that the monitor accepted over the boards rejection is for $ 151 million
That comes out to $30,250 per student. If you want to save money school vouchers is the way to go. The median tuition in Lakewood is $4,000.00.
As to scare tactics during the past week the yeshivas urged parent not to use the school buses or car pool for summer camp and the delay was only 15-30 minutes . It was reported in the Asbury Press
you can check it out.
This will all be over in a month either they will integrate school busing and there will be traffic jams. How big I do not know but in theory it can ripple throughout the state.
Also integrated school buses ( Public & Private student will be intermingled) will not be limited to Lakewood but all over including here in NY.
Less chumras:
You are correct in that once the buses are integrated with men and women and public funds are used, they can’t be segregated But since yeshivas are single sexed they have been allowed to have all of their students on separate buses this has already been litigated. If they proof the monitor is only doing co-ed busing to deny them the mandated busing and not to save money there is a civil rights violation. Once there is a court case the state has to explain why the state took over the elected school board ( overrode the school board ) and how and when they are going to return it back to the elected board
All students must be treated equal so you are going to have students from two public schools also sharing the same bus. Students will sleep on the bus and get off at the wrong school. Whose responsibility is it to transfer him back to the right school.
Gov. Christie is running for President so I really don’t think he want to be know as the man who is deny school buses to 25,000 children. The yeshiva have already told there parents not to car pool. That means 5,000 to 15,000 additional cars during rush hour. Not for one day but for the whole school year. This will result in massive traffic jam and many student will not get to school until 10 o;clock or even later. Emergency vehicles wouldn’t be able to get through there will be chaos. Some body will step forward and make a deal, the state will pay the $884 per student directly to the yeshivas for busing and it will be over.
I can’t see the monitor or any one else in the district as staff has been cut to the bone, rearranging bus routes for 30,000 pupil by Sept. 2015 so that there might not be be co-ed busing.
DaMoshe
A government agency can not discriminate based on religious believes. Example if an employer previously allowed employees to take off Saturday and then required an employee to work on Saturday and he claimed religious observance and was fired. The employer even if it is not a governmental agency is in violation of the civil rights act and he gets his job backed plus loss pay. Even if the employer never let new employees off on Saturday if they don’t try to accommodate the Sabbath observer they are violating his civil rights. In this case since the monitor could have combined two bus routes with two schools that have the same sex student body and didn’t but used co-ed busing to deny the yeshiva students of bus rides he is in violation of the yeshiva students civil rights. With governmental agencies the bar is higher as to what is considered accommodating. Only a judge can rule if co-ed busing is a civil rights violation. If found guilty of civil rights violations the state and district can lose federal aid besides the states ability to take over and override an elected school board which may also be a voting rights violation which is also a civil right violation. The judge may rule that $884 compensation per student negates the civil rights violation. Similar to a positive command negates a negative command in Jewish law. If one committed a negative command which one could receive lashes if he does the positive command he can be absolved of the negative law lashing.
Joseph Yes nobody knows his plan but he needs about $6 million. Either he is going to have to cut the public schools budget or cut the courtesy busing or the state can kicks in the money. I don’t think the state is going to give more money. So he either accepts the board’s budget and cuts the public schools budget or cuts busing.
If he cuts the busing he needs to design safe routes for each of the 12,000 children effected. They will be needing school crossing guards to make sure they cross safely, traffic enforcement agents to keep the thousands of additional cars moving and police officers to ensure the students safety from predators. In addition they will need additional traffic and street lights plus sidewalks in some locations. All of this has to be in place by Sept. 2015 the start of the school year. If it’s not in place the yeshiva or public school parents can sue due to unsafe conditions and the district will have to provide busing. All of this is going to cost money maybe more than they save on busing.
The school bus problem in Lakewood is as follows there is 24,000 yeshiva students who cost the district $20 million but the state only pays for the 8,000 public school student @ 14000.00 per public school student for a total $112 million. Every student living within 2.5 miles from the school is entitled to bus service according to state law.
The monitor in order to cut yeshiva school busing threaten to have co-ed school busing and the yeshivas walked out.
The problem with implementing co-ed yeshiva busing is as follows:
A) The bus routes are design by the schools and each school is only one sex so the district would have take a boys school and a girls school and mix them together. Assuming 50 kids to a bus that’s 480 bus routes that he has to do by Aug or at least Sept..
B) Unless most of the buses are half empty he is not going to get much saving.
C) Even if there is savings by combining students from more then one school why not combine students of two schools of the same sex.
D) If he goes through with his threat of co-ed busing. He will have to pay $20 million for busing that nobody will use while at the same time explaining to a judge why the state IS NOT VIOLATING THE YESHIVA STUDENT CIVIL RIGHTS. Also if the district does not provide busing they are suppose to pay $884.00 per student for the 2015-2016 school year for 24,000 all yeshiva student that comes to $ 21,260.00 at 16,000 those who live outside the 2.5 miles it come to $14,144,000.00.
E) On top of the district and or the state being liable for $14 – 21 million dollars the states ability to take over a school district will also be in jeopardy.
The only cut the monitor can take is courtesy busing which will effect about 8,000 yeshiva and 4,000 public school students for a saving of about $6 million this year. The only problems are:
A) How many yeshiva students will transfer to schools 2.5 miles
away and become state mandated?
B) How will the cancellation of courtesy busing effect public school attendance. Each day a student is absence it cost the district $63.63 and so they will have to encourage the students to walk the 2.5 miles in all types of weather.
The only way is to have school bus funding for private schools separate from public school funding
Joseph: Everyone loses the courtesy busing if the monitor decides to go that route. Nobody knows right now neither the private nor public school parents what he will decide it will be a surprise in Sept. when it too late. Then the parent will have to go to court.
The District will have to have contracts with the bus companies and routes set up by Sept. so the decision will have to be made by Aug.at the latest, less than 2 week away. Because the District waited to the last minute to put the busing service out to bidding costs for it will be higher.
Last year some of the yeshivas had a tiered starting time as you suggested but they got nothing in return not even a promise that they would not cut their busing so this year they are not doing it. They will have to go to court and a judge will be deciding if the state, as it the state’s monitor who is doing the cutting, is adequately funding the district for the mandated yeshiva students transportation costs. I also don’t think the state wants to be shown as denying students school busing and denying them a good education so the state will compromise after they are taken to court. The judge can have the state pay the whole district’s education cost as there is suppose to be NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION, since the state monitor overrode the boards budget.
Joseph:
The monitor can raise tax rates by 2% together with the assestment, taxes can go up without the referendum.
Special ed cost about $70, 000 per student per year so it’s possible but the board pays the legal cost for the student which can range from $200 – $1,000 per hour so these cases can cost over $100,000.00 per case they may not want to fight unless they have to.
The monitor is planning to cut bus services as this is the only service where he can effect the frummies. Another solution is to transfer all yeshiva student in the district so they are in schools 2.5 miles from their home then the district MUST pay for busing by law. If the monitor decides to go with co-ed busing the state opens themselves to a discrimination suit and if proven the monitor is gone.
The secular parent just want to stick it to the frummies they don’t realize that all this will do is bankrupt the district. What is needed is for private school students to be counted for funding purposes.
By the way Public School was spelled in error in the my post .
Joseph: 1) The only services the Frum community gets are busing & Special Ed. Federal law requires the Board to pay legal cost if the parents win a special ed case which will cost thousands of dollars. Although he can still raise property taxes for all.
2)The Monitor can over ride the school board so what ever he says goes.
3) Up until know all students in the district got free bus service no matter how far they lived from the school. September is when this may take effect.
Lesschumrus: I never said that yeshiva students will drop out of school. All that will happen is that the 8,000 yeshiva student Approx 30% live within 2.5 miles of the school will have to be driven to school resulting in traffic jam and pollution. The 4,000 puplic school students approx. 50% live within 2.5 miles of the school who are mostly lower income may have to walk to school they are the ones who will drop out. even if they come they will be so tired they will fall a sleep in class. The reason we have school lunch program is so they will have a full stomache and be able to learn better
There is no school monitor presently in either East Ramapo or Lawrence as of now. In Lakewood there is one and he is trying to cut school busing for 4-12 graders who live within 2.5 miles of the school but this will apply to both private and public school students. Gov. Christie is running for president and there will be a debate next month.If you do’t want it to come to NY you should try to fight it in NJ as they are using it as the basis for having it in NY. If you can publicize the fact that Christie’s idea of “NO STUDENT LEFT BEHIND” is to deny students school bus rides so they can’t get to school to get left behind. Or if they do walk 2.5 miles they are going to be so tried they will be sleeping in class and not learning. Or does he really think students are going to walk 2.5 miles each day for 8 years just to graduate he is sadly mistaken. All that will happen is the drop out rate will start in primary instead of high school Just posting on various websites maybe enough to convince him to tell his monitor to leave busing alone.