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BS”D
Nope. What the grandmother did was pure rishus. Not big time stuff but rishus just the same. Limud zechus – maybe she is troubled or ill and not a reshois, but still this should not happen.
I had something even worse happen where the relatives of a mentally disabled man plopped him down in my expensive MBC concert seat as I had been slightly delayed, and then disappeared. The man did not understand English, Yiddish or Ivrit (or was told not to respond). Worse yet, my back was strained and there were no other seats; otherwise I might have been OK with dancing in the aisles for a bit before taking care of the issue. Finally, I found the man’s relatives and demanded that he be removed.
I told the relatives that they were turning a tohor (the man is not mechuyav in mitzvos and is considered on a higher level) into a gonif. They did not even react or apologize.
Sometimes, rishus is just that. There are times when we must say “shygetz aross”!
Even if the granddaughter were chas vesholom disabled I would expect the woman to ask the first girl or her parents to give up the seat. You don’t touch someone else’s kids except to help out, period.
I don’t know what I would have done had the relatives of this man asked me to trade seats after the fact (probably would have refused as it was geneiva any way you slice it but they did not even offer me another seat and I have no idea what the story was as this was way back and security may have been loose enough to let someone sneak in).
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A600KiloBear – Chabad doesn’t put up sukkah decorations.
Posted 36 minutes ago #
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aryeh3
Member
He had decorations in his succah.
BS”D
Yep – tzvye Creedmoorer foodshtempelach and a sectien-acht epplikation for each of you – that was too easy!
BS”D
What kind of a Jew am I?
Any kind except Chabad….now to add some fun to this thread let’s see who else knows how I know Telegrok is not a Lubavitcher…..
BS”D
If people insist on blaming the Shoah on the actions of the Zionists…
This on the other hand is not acceptable. Only Hashem knows why the Shoah happened as it did. We only know that the leadership of the porkei ol malchus Shomayim and its actions, which were not undertaken according to Torah priorities, did not help the situation and may have led to the murder of Jews who could have been saved had Torah leadership prevailed. Then again, when there is such a hester ponim, part of the entire process is that reshoim from among us end up destroying us.
BS”D
I am talking about the proliferation of post yeshiva and sem practical training institutes, which even prepare haredim for advanced secular degrees such as law, in EY. The government discourages these efforts from getting too far “out of hand”. My information regarding this just so happens to be first hand, not what I read in some rag like Am Ha’Aretz.
A few “good haredim” in the workforce only allows the left to point to the rest of the community and to pat a few poster boys on the back occasionally. Dudi Zilberschlag was one of those poster boys; in a recent interview he said he is becoming far more militant toward the institutions of the medine (though he continues to help its weakest citizens regardless of their level of observance or beliefs via Meir Panim). A revolution of the type that the community would like to see, where its members could live and work as they do in the US, Canada and Europe, would bring about a wave of tshuva which the medine is not ready for. Army service? Too many soldiers as it is; the medine likes the present situation as they don’t need the charedim anyway and then can point to them as shirkers. National service would only expand the Meir Panims out there and yes, there we go again, more tshuva.
Thanks to the deracination of Edot haMizrah immigrants by the medine, EY is the only place where you find convicts bearing surnames like Kadosh, Hasid, Mevorach and yes, Zakai! Their counterparts who got out of the morass or avoided it altogether are successful merchants and professionals in France, the US, Canada and many other places.
As for the horrendous treason of the zionists during the Shoah, it was just proven beyond a doubt that instead of continuing a boycott of the Nazi government that could have brought this malchis harisha to its knees, the zionists accepted blood money and a pitiful number of Jews to stop the boycott. That is what happens when you take the concept of am Yisroel which is kedusha and turn it into the hepech hakedusha of modern, G-dless nationalism.
Immigration to EY? There were not enough visas to go around and we know who took more than their fair share. The whole point was moot and whichever way you look at it Hashem decreed that the leaders of Torah should be saved in order to plant the seeds of Torah in free soil.
The present medine is a toeva that must fall (it COULD have been something else but as we are in golus and the medine is tiff in golus the misyavnim won and are running it into the ground) but to avoid bloodshed let it fall to Moshiach already. While it is our obligation to strengthen Jews living in EY by bringing them to Torah, and the fact is that the medine did happen, it is not any sort of geulah. The medine is to the geula as chas vesholom a malignant cell is to a healthy one.
The medine is like bringing davar acher to the mizbeach because a malchus tuma in Eretz haKoidesh is exactly that – davar acher al gabei hamizbeach (chas vesholom)!
Kilobear, you can make fun all you want, but are you denying that in EY the Chareidi world does not even allow high school?
BS”D
Instead charedi leaders in EY are coming up with their own system for both men and women where secular learning takes place in a proper environment at the right time.
The main problem in EY has to do with the secular government preventing many charedim from working and has nothing to do with any trends in the US. And the reason this is done is fear that an educated charedi workforce will enter the secular world and cause even more of a wave of tshuva than is already taking place among secular “Israelis” who become Jews again either in or outside EY because they see how empty the Zionist and post-Zionist ideology is and always was.
BS”D
Wait a minute! Aren’t spaghetti straps only an issue on Pesach because of chometz issues?
Therefore all these supposedly Chareidi people are relying on Rabbi Joseph Soloveitchik.
BS”D
Thanks – the above is funnier than even the krumkeit I come up with for Creedmoor.
BS”D
Isn’t skila the most serious of the big four and therefore covers all offenses? Maybe we assume that a ben su”m will grow up to violate just about everything (what we expect from a shababnik or bum today) so we give him a little preventative medicine as in the harshest possible punishment before the offense(s) presumed and expected are even committed.
BS”D
You can put a chador on over a shell and a burqa on over just about anything and it will be kosher. If you follow this minhag, tin foil or orange plastic is most recommended for your chador or burqa. As is well known said tin foil or plastic should not come from a tzioinish source.
Mekor: “Extreme Tznius for Real Dummies” by Rebbetzin Izevel Tzoiah Yachne Schmoigerman
BS”D
Umm, spell Creedmoor right, do a quick Google and you will see that the above, like anything to do with the Creedmoorer Chassidim, is a PARODY of those who engage in sinas chinam.
than the crack team of Mods…
BS”D
CRACK team of mods? Now THAT explains a lot!
BS”D
It’s OK, you burned something from the medine, that is all that counts!
BS”D
The wedding shower in Creedmoor is when the couple have their first home flooded right after the chassune so that insurance ends up paying for the chassune AND hachnossos kallah (which is quite kveidah in Creedmoor). If more families did it this way it would take a lot of pressure off the new couple in so many ways, the first being that couple would live in Federal Koilel for the shana rishona.
BS”D
Back to lurking mode for a while as I catch up from Tishrei. I’ll try to participate on motzash or Sunday morning when I have a bit of time but I won’t be able to be as active as I had been recently.
Kilobear, unfortunately, the pinnacle of generations of Chareidi thought seems to have reached its culmination this summer with the burning of garbage cans and traffic lights in Meah Shearim,
BS”D
Sorry, but the Charedi world is not represented by a bunch of hooligans stirred up by outside agitators. That Yoilish Krauss is as authentic a kanoi as I am an authentic bear, not that kanoius represents much of the Charedi world in any event.
MO is dead. It was a horaas shooh with no real official backing, based on a misperceived need to assimilate and an underlying lack of emunah which led its founders to believe that real Torah Yiddishkeit could not be transplanted to the US – contrast that to the Rebbe Rayatz of Lubavitch ZYA who said “America iz nisht anderish,” let alone Reb Yoilish Satmarer ZYA, Rav SF Mendelowitz ZTL and others. Zionism is also dead, replaced by a vapid post-Zionism that has no connection to Judaism. If you want to see the failure of “religious” Zionism, walk on King George St in Y-m and check the name of the cross street from which taxis and sherut depart on Shabbos R”L L”A….
BS”D
A search bar is available through Google and can easily be added.
I would like an Ignore feature but that is considerably harder to add.
A600KiloBear–I was not referring to organizations like Ezra Mitzion, Yad Sarah, and such. I was referring to major Hareidi Yeshivot and day schools. And please, don’t tell me that they send people to “Yenem Velt”. I have seen many more YU Rabbis take posts in far-flung US towns than I have Chareidim–with the notable exception of Chabad.
BS”D
The occasional one or two who try then end up leaving, which means either Chabad takes over or the shul dies out. There are far more Chabad rabbis in YI shuls than you can imagine. And what of AISH and SEED? Ner le’Elef?
MO was a necessary part of the Jewish world of old. Today’s MO is either moving to the right and will converge with the yeshiva world and some less isolationist Chassidim, or it has lost the O part and is going the Chovlei Torah path which will lead to a New Age form of CONservative and will die out in a generation anyway as Edah (NOT the Edah haCharedis LOL) did. Only a few older individuals represent the MO of old, and that is how it should be. Their children have moved on, usually to the right.
BS”D
Creedmoorer Aravos/Hoshainois Jam:
As Creedmoorer Chassidim are likened to the aravos, without any Torah or mitzvos, the Creedmoorer minhag is to make Aravos jam, especially with week old hoshainos aravois:
10 pounds unwashed aravois
1 Tzioinish flag
3 pounds petroleum jelly “naki mekol chashas timas haTzioinis” from Iran or Saudi Arabia
Stick the aravois and the flag in the Vaseline and heat the mixture by setting the dry aravois aflame. Do this as many times as possible in as many garbage bins as possible throughout the Tzionish occupied city of Al-Qods. Those living in the Great Satan should refer to the many halachic works of the Admou”r regarding burning homemade incendiary devices only in heavily insured vacant warehouses.
BS”D
Chabad Chassidim have hakafos S”A night and eat in the sukkah S”A. Probably a reflection of the geographical origins of Chassidus Chabad.
BS”D
Just be careful not to shout “Shygetz Aross” in the presence of your Shabbos goy.
BS”D
being “davuk”
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Why be davuk if you can be dafuk? (Pninei Creedmoor, actually said to be a quote by the Creedmoorer-Alcatrazer Rebbetzin, Lilac Blossom Prunepit McCall SchmoigerWOMAN).
BS”D
TIDE also includes what Rav Hirsch called “austritt”, meaning that secular knowledge is only acceptable after it is separated from and discards secular culture, values, and environment.
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Joseph, I’m 20 minutes from leaving for shul and don’t have time to check this but are you sure that R’ Hirsch ZTL meant this and not physical separation (not participating in any kehilla with Reform and setting up separate kehillas called austrittsgemeinde) by austritt? Could be both I am really pressed for time and in yom tov mode therefore relying on memory.
BS”D
EVERY SINGLE frum doctor I know is in it for the parnosso and the “my son in law the doctor” prestige.
They admit it, though some regret it now because of de facto income caps through insurance reimbursement systems that do not make medicine all that attractive to parents of large families.
BS”D
“A660KiloBear”
I seriously hope you are far more accurate when dealing with measurements in your scientific work, unless you are working on something as earth shattering as how to make thirty-two more scents of Clorox bleach. In that case an addition of 10% to the weight of whatever odoriferous compound you are throwing in the bleach might actually give you better results.
2. Pulpit rabbis should announce that they personally will call the Administration for Childrens Services, or similar agencies and file abuse/neglect reports against any parent who’s child drinks on Simchat Torah.
BS”D
Yes, mesira solves everything. If you don’t believe me ask Solomon D-ek.
Also, my comment about drinking tonight refers to consuming a large amount of vodka for kiddush, not making lechaims which I do in moderation. I am usually counted on to do at least one cross armed hagboh and cannot drink or be hung over Simchas Torah morning.
BS”D
And most importantly, the roots of the old MO are very simple:
1) Assimilation.
2) Sofek – doubts that real Torah Judaism can continue in the US, which have long been disproven.
Oh, and as for self supporting Torah institutions, with the exception perhaps of Bikur Cholim NO modern donors support Satmar for many reasons. Yet, the Satmar community is one of the most self sufficient and successful communities out there (and no, they’re not all on welfare, that is ridiculous).
As far as ultra-Orthodoxy flourishing–sure. They do so by the support of their MO brethren, who receive an endless line of collectors for the ultra-Orthodox institutions.
BS”D
And those contributions are a drop in the bucket compared to how our own communities support Torah. On the other hand you may be referring to charedi institutions like Chai Lifeline in the US and Ezra laMarpeh, Ezer miTzion, Yad Sarah in EY and some Chabad and Aish organizations which actually help everyone no matter their affiliation and therefore are supported by all though most support comes from the more charedi sectors or from those whose physical communities directly benefit.
Indeed, unlike the more modern institutions, the charedi moisdos benefit all of klal Yisroel. When have you last seen a YU rabbi taking a meager paying pulpit in yenem velt and saving a few remaining Jews from assimilation? No, they know they’d fall apart out there and either wither because of lack of parnosso or even fry out because they can’t withstand the temptations of being in a small town where only a yarmulke that can easily be removed separates them from their secular Jewish neighbors.
You mention Rav Tendler. Don’t go there. No one is more known for compromising and even attack of certain charedi positions than he is. The failure of his derech is most astounding when it comes to certain people very close to him, vehamayvin yavin.
And most importantly, real MO is moving toward the right, with secular education being pursued for the right reasons only – parnosso. The Torah world will move toward this as well, leaving the MO of yesterday in the lurch – where they will either get with the program and remove the modern, or join kefira institute Chovevei (more like Chovlei) Torah and basically become the new CONservative.
A660KiloBear,
That the religious professionals are making a Kiddush Hashem b’rabim is undeniable. However, they could not do so without their secular education. And a great many of these folks–(especially MDs and scientists) continue their secular education long after their graduation, reading about new advances etc. One does not do this incidentally; the best doctors and professionals do it for the love of the work. Just as the best Torah scholars do it for love, and not because it is required of them.
BS”D
Yawn. That is secular education in technical fields for the sake of parnosso through excellence in the field. Not for its own sake. Your attempt to be disingenuous does not fool me.
BS”D
Seriously, it is very simple. Follow your community standards, or ask a rov and do as he says. And don’t condemn others who follow their rabbonim. If someone asks you, tell him my rov X told me (to), (not to) use the eruv.
I once found mashke in a store that the most respected posek of my community in EY does not use or recommend (he happens to be Rav Landa) and therefore would not have been consumed by >75% of the mispalelim at the shul I would have brought it to. I explained why I refused to buy it and given my appearance the owner asked me if he should tell frum Yidden not to use it. I said, tell them Rav Landa (known to be the most machmir on food and drink and having posseled it because of rumors of contact with milk) does not accept it.
BS”D
One thing that can be said in praise of the MO of old (Young Israel and YU) is that it did keep people frum during the times of conformity and assimilation. Some of the descendants of these stalwart frum families are living in Williamsburgh and Yerushalayim today.
But what was good enough for times when you could not wear a yarmulke on the street and kashrus in the US was a joke is not good enough for now when freedom all over the world, which Hashem granted to the world for the benefit of His Am Segula, allows us the ability to keep mitzvos behiddur, and to be ourselves while we can even succeed in the secular world as Satmar chassidim if we so choose.
jothar- I don’t know R’moshe teshuvo on women and tzizits but it is well-knwon that chassidic rebbetzins did wear a talis koton,because they wanted to be “mekayim’ the mitzvah.
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BS”D
Which ones? Rebbetzin Izevel Tzoiah Yachne of Creedmoor-Creedmoor does not wear one as far as anyone knows but who can see under her burqa anyway? Rebbetzin Lilac Blossom Prunepit Mc-Call Schmoigerwoman of Creedmoor-Alcatraz is indeed a feminist when she is halfway conscious but she is in far too elevated a spiritual state to wear a tallis koton.
BS”D
And of course since the Creedmoorer chassidim need to drive in order to rack up some whiplash accidents on Simchas Torah, they do not drink. In any case, when one does not exist in any dimension except that of fraud, it is hard to drink.
BS”D
I drink mostly on Shmini Atzeres night because we do hakafos in Chabad tonight and I have a day to rest it off if I overindulge, not that I usually do. Vodka or 96% for me, usually the former as the quality of the 96% here is questionable and when I last had it on Purim it was awful.
I stop WAY before I get out of hand.
BS”D
Modernorthodox, thanks for your excellent description of moderate hisyavnus (Hellenism) which borders on Epicureanism and I will let you figure out how to translate that into laha”k.
Somehow it clashes with the simple Rashi on “hitztaynu shom”, and more importantly with the pshat of “hein am levadoi tishkoin” (unless, since you listen to their music, you just think that is the refrain of a Jewish song that you may consider mediocre and beneath you). Oh, and never mind am segula.
BS”D
Oy! 9987 Avenue M is Mea Sheorim Kigel and Kishke, where the kigel and kishke tastes like it is flown in every month from Mea Sheorim. Kasher lemafreya under the Kreedmoor-K and made only with kosher certified mold and mildew.
Perhaps you should visit the Universities in Italy in which Jews (all religious) attended and studied (in addition to their Torah studies).
BS”D
And their descendants are tragically among the least observant and coldest Jews on this planet. If it were not for an influx of Libyan and Persian Jews, and Chabad shluchim who largely succeed only among these immigrants and their children, Judaism in Italy would be relegated to the museums and a small cliquish community in Rome.
BS”D
No, those professionals may have invested the minimum time learning nonsense that was considered an entrance requirement as opposed to their real medical, law, engineering etc courses, but that growing cadre of Torah-true professionals tend to be the best of their profession (especially MD’s) because they know that they are being looked up to and relied upon to make a kiddush Hashem berabim.
And the attorneys have years of learning halacha and Gemara behind them which is far better training for the practice of law than shtus such as Voltaire, Kant, and chas vesholom “The Bible as Literature” that were part of my undergraduate wasted years.
And I have seen my very well educated mother mix household chemicals improperly because she’s not technically inclined or because perhaps her immigrant grandmother did it. My father has advanced degrees and confuses crawling and flying insect killer because when he was young there was DDT for everything and then later chlordane and other banned goodies so for him all of the new stuff is “schlock”. I assure you not one haimishe housewife I know (let alone any of the many Chabad shluchos whose houses I have been in all over the world) misuses stuff or lets her illiterate cleaning lady mess with anything she doesn’t buy and check for safety. That is because she has a mentality that comes from knowing kashrus and Shabbos laws that are far more complex than reading two labels on two bottles.
BS”D
“A bochur in college in nisht in yeshiva, nit kein in a Yiddishe sviva, nisht emmes, nisht emmes!” (Reb YomTov Ehrlich).
Jothar, in my experience, most of the students who go off the derech in college are kids who are waiting to be out of Yeshiva and their parents house to do so. (yes, this is just my limited experience) I could have told you who from my high school class wasn’t going to be frum anymore well before they graduated.
BS”D
Of the 10 or so cases of OTD I knew in college (who were by no means compensated for by myself and another handful of BT’s but I had made up my mind to go as I did before I started college anyway and would have dropped out to learn Torah if I could have), 2 were as you described. The others had spent 1-2 years learning in tzioinish yeshivos before college and came in shtark – but left frei or worse yet, CONservative.
BS”D
I think if you were honest with yourself, you would see that people across the entire spectrum of orthodoxy pick and choose what they keep – some are just more likely to hide it.
There is a BIG difference between individuals giving into tayves and knowing they are wrong, or knowing they have to compromise because they are (far away from home, in a workplace situation, dealing with hefsed meruba, ill informed and don’t know they are wrong etc) and a whole movement having an image of being based on looking for the easy way out.
And if you mean individuals who give into tayves and end up in the justice system with their names sprawled across the headlines, sorry, but they’re all across the spectrum. Such is life in golus where the yetzer is an equal opportunity offender.
BS”D
The only certified eruv rav in the Five Boroughs is the Admou”r meCreedmoor (Weiss and Beck live in Monsey). While he does extend his welfare net over Brooklyn and therefore it is within the Creedmoorer Eruv, the areas he extends it to are addresses such as 11523 13th Avenue and 9987 Avenue M which exist only on the insurance and section 8 rolls. Therefore, the certified eruv rav eruv of Creedmoor does not extend to Brooklyn except to those properties listed on the Section 8 and insurance rolls but nowhere else.
BS”D
So you disagree with the GRA, that’s fine.
By definition, as a Chossid, I disagree very strongly with (though of course highly respect) the GR”A (and I am very aware that he was a mathematician of note). I also think you are twisting his words, but since I do not learn the GR”A’s Torah, I have no way of knowing whether my assumption is correct.
And even if this is correct, there is a severe problem of yeridas hadorois, as well as the format of college. I doubt the GR”A learned in a university which was at all like that of today.
While the Lubavitcher Rebbe certainly did study technical subjects in university, most of his knowledge of mathematics and all of his knowledge of languages were obtained prior to attending same, from tutors and independent learning here where he grew up. Guess where the Lubavitcher Rebbe learned languages using dictionaries and books (and where I acquired much of my ability to read Italian)…hint – you say a brocho after you leave there…
BS”D
Does anyone know if any of the Twersky brothers (R’ Dr Avraham, R’ Aaron, Reb Michel, R’ Shloime A”H) completed traditional undergraduate degrees or did they just get credits and go on to graduate school? The latter is a far more practical solution – you get exactly what you need from the secular system without wasting time or wasting your Yiddishe neshomo.
BS”D
I played with a real, live 600 kilo bear and fed it three kiddushes worth of herring so it would not eat me.
Then I gave a shiur on “Burning your sukkah for fun and profit” al pi nevelus birshus hatoire d’Chassidus Creedmoor.
And if you believe that, I am also making kiddush on a four liter jug of zechs un ninetziger, straight from the hardware store, Simchas Torah night.
A yeshivah bochur in Kollel does not know how to suture a wound, much less do brain surgery. Secular education is needed for that. Any frum Jew who believes otherwise, had better pray hard that he never needs the services of someone who also had a secular education.
BS”D
I am a graduate of an Ivy League college. I cannot repair anything related to gas or electricity and have only a basic knowledge of plumbing, too basic to trust myself. I also do not consider myself able to attempt to repair an automobile or even to maintain one, and I am “too old to learn” even if I do have the inclination to do so. Anyone with secular education who thinks they know it all should remember that unless you are doing it for parnosso, you are not learning much of anything that helps you in the real world. And if you want parnosso, skilled trades are just as honorable and more lucrative than all but the top tiers of the top paying professions, which are more and more closed off anyway especially with the contraction of the economy and the bureaucratization of health care.
My yeshiva educated friends who are internet or computer professionals and I learned computer skills the same way – by doing. I was at least 29 when I first logged on to the Internet, about 33 when I first used a graphics program, and 40 when I built my first commercial site. I don’t even think Word existed when I was in college, and I learned Lotus (predecessor to Excel) afterward. These skills, as well as repairing a computer which, guess what, I taught myself, are skills I use in real life. The devarim betelim I learned in college are of so little interest to me that I think the last time I even read a book related to my major (history) was seven years ago on a trans-Atlantic flight. And I don’t even want to talk about the divrei kefira I learned there, unavoidable because it was part of the required curriculum. Though it does haunt me at times, most of it convinced me only that “ashreinu ma tov chelkeinu”!
Now, would someone care to fix my farshtunkener kitchen faucet that hasn’t worked properly in a year? (I actually do know how but like many who acquire theoretical knowledge, I can’t apply this in the real world especially as a flood may result).
BS”D
Rav Vorhand’s shtiebel on the Upper West Side? I do not know if he is still alive or who runs the shul now, but Rav Vorhand is/was a Chassidishe rov who had held some sort of office in Czechoslovakia. His shtibl was known as one of the frummest shuls on the UWS in my day.
BS”D
There is no Torah knowledge without learning general knowledge.
Wrong. It is the other way around. Remember – reishis chochma yiras Hashem.
If you do not have a strong grounding in Torah knowledge, you will not have the tools to differentiate between valid general knowledge which brings you to a greater understanding of the Creator (or is just what you need for parnosso) and the universalist, anti-Torah brainwashing that you can be subject to in a university setting.
BS”D
Nevertheless, the source of the music–the spark of creativity used to write it, could only come from one source.
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Yes. That one source is klipa.