Health

“Check out the latest Medscape News about HCQ.
They did/brought like 30 studies that HCQ alone works for Covid.”

I am not sure as to what article you are referring to, I will paste below from Medscape, which unlike what you stated, is very clear about HCQ not being effective.

If you are not interested in reading the article, or what was posted below, the basic conclusion is that at this point all studies have shown no benefit to any group of patients when it comes to the Covid virus.

I am not sure why some people are hooked on a specific theoretical treatment and keep on repeating it as if it were some religious thing.

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) Treatment & Management
Updated: Aug 18, 2021
Author: David J Cennimo, MD, FAAP, FACP, FIDSA, AAHIVS; Chief Editor: Michael Stuart Bronze, MD

“Based on its ongoing analysis of the EUA and emerging scientific data, the FDA determined that hydroxychloroquine is unlikely to be effective in treating COVID-19 for the authorized uses in the EUA. Additionally, in light of ongoing serious cardiac adverse events and other potential serious adverse effects, the known and potential benefits of hydroxychloroquine no longer outweigh the known and potential risks for the EUA.

Although additional clinical trials may continue to evaluate potential benefit, the FDA determined the EUA was no longer appropriate.

Additionally, the NIH halted the Outcomes Related to COVID-19 treated with Hydroxychloroquine among In-patients with symptomatic Disease (ORCHID) study on June 20, 2020. After the fourth analysis that included more than 470 participants, the NIH data and safety monitoring board determined that, while there was no harm, the study drug was very unlikely to be beneficial to hospitalized patients with COVID-19. [333]”

“Hydroxychloroquine did not improve outcomes when administered to outpatient adults (n = 423) with early COVID-19. Change in symptom severity over 14 days did not differ between the hydroxychloroquine and placebo groups (P = 0.117). At 14 days, 24% (49 of 201) of participants receiving hydroxychloroquine had ongoing symptoms compared with 30% (59 of 194) receiving placebo (P = 0.21). Medication adverse effects occurred in 43% (92 of 212) of participants receiving hydroxychloroquine compared with 22% (46 of 211) receiving placebo (P< 0.001). Among patients receiving placebo, 10 were hospitalized (two cases unrelated to COVID-19), one of whom died. Among patients receiving hydroxychloroquine, four were hospitalized and one nonhospitalized patient died (P = 0.29). [339]”

Various clinical trials in the United States were initiated to determine if hydroxychloroquine reduces the rate of infection when used by individuals at high risk for exposure, such as high-risk healthcare workers, first responders, and individuals who share a home with a COVID-19–positive individual. [340, 341, 342, 343, 344, 345]

Results from the PATCH trial (n=125) did not show any benefit of hydroxychloroquine to reduce infection among healthcare workers compared with placebo. [342]

Another study rerolled 1483 healthcare workers, of which 79% performed aerosol-generating procedures did not show a difference in preventing infection with once or twice weekly hydroxychloroquine compared with placebo. The incidence of SARS-CoV-2 laboratory-confirmed or symptomatic compatible illness was 0.27 events per person-year with once-weekly and 0.28 events per person-year with twice-weekly hydroxychloroquine compared with 0.38 events per person-year with placebo (P = 0.18 and 0.22 respectively). [346]

Results from a double-blind randomized trial (n = 821) from the University of Minnesota found no benefit of hydroxychloroquine (n = 414) in preventing illness due to COVID-19 compared with placebo (n = 407) when used as postexposure prophylaxis in asymptomatic participants within 4 days following high-risk or moderate-risk exposure. Overall, 87.6% of participants had high-risk exposures without eye shields and surgical masks or respirators. New COVID-19 (either PCR-confirmed or symptomatically compatible) developed in 107 participants (13%) during the 14-day follow-up. Incidence of new illness compatible with COVID-19 did not differ significantly between those receiving hydroxychloroquine (49 of 414 [11.8%]) and those receiving placebo (58 of 407 [14.3%]) (P = 0.35). [347]

righwriter

“There is no scientific evidence that this vaccine prevents others from getting sick. Vaccines work based on the individual who takes it to protect themselves. It has no dependency on others. The CDC even admitted that vaccinated are not protected against variants and are spreading. Also we are seeing that in actuality.”

Your using the notion of the vaccine being less protective against different strains or variants of the virus has nothing to do with protecting others.

I am not sure as to the basis of your argument that there is no evidence that vaccinated people help eradicate the virus, which in return protects the rest of the population. That is how viruses work. The virus requires a host in order to survive, as long as the virus has a large enough population that are viable vectors the virus will continue to survive. The more people that are immune to the virus, the less available hosts to serve as vectors for the virus.

AAQ,

Re the data for the lack if increase in Covid cases, more so hospitalized cases, I am not sure it’s possible to obtain such data. However, there was and continues to be almost no social distancing as well as regular school schedule, as has been for a very long time. As of recent, there has not been any significant increase of hospitalizations in these communities (referring to US/Tri state area).

That might very well change, hopefully it will not.

While you request that I provide the data, I believe that you would have to provide data that disproves this, since your pushing for mandates and blaming others for not following the social distancing and masking recommendations. Besides, you can verify this by reaching out to the hospitals or local EMS agencies (doubt they would release any info to you).

But the rest of us can rely on anecdotal information and personal observations. Especially if you live or work on the above mentioned areas. Even more so, if you work in facilities that deal with Covid patients.

I am not against masks or social distancing, and it may be that those are important. However, lets not pretend as if we have it all figured out. It may very much be that the social distancing caused a significant low risk population to remain vulnerable and available to keep the virus alive, which left is scrambling on how to deal with this new wave of Covid.

I do sincerely believe that we all want to find ourselves on the other side of this horrible saga. It’s just that we all bring our biases to the table and which makes it difficult for all sides to come together.

Philosopher,

Not sure what your referring to about more than one treatment, in this chat there was a specific treatment that was mentioned, which has not yet been proven to be effective.

Of course there are treatment protocols that have proven to be effective, they are also being used on Covid patients.

With regards to the vaccine, which seems to be what you are alluding to with the prevention protocol. Yes, there are breakthrough cases, but most of them are mild in nature not requiring hospitalization.
Furthermore, the vaccine was not being sold as 100% effective, and the need for boosters is not yet clear.

The prevention method is not new, its been used since vaccines have been invented and has been the mainstay of preventative medicine. Its wildly effective if done safely and uses the rules of Hashems nature which build immunity which in return allows the body to successfully fight the invading virus.

As if yet, there is no effective treatments for viral infections, so vaccines seem to be our best bet at this time.

With regards to deaths and side effects, Like everything else there are side effects, although they are extremely rare, to the point that they are deemed safe.

Health

“Your rattling about the needs for testing & trials, shouldn’t have applied.
The same way they tested the vaccines for Covid – Human Guinea Pigs!”

Are you trying to argue that the rules should be bent? Or are you arguing that despite the mentioned treatment having found no benefit, and despite the entire medical community having moved on from what seemed to be hypothetically promising, we should still cling to one specific treatment?

You seem to be advocating and even seem bothered by the fact that the government (as well almost all established medical associations) are not on the same page with your treatment protocol. But, is there any reliable data that supports your treatment protocol?

At this point we unfortunately have had way to many Covid patients. However, we also have a lot of data, so some theories can be eliminated and some can be looked at with greater interest.

We can’t stay stuck with one initial hypothetical potential treatment protocol.

HaKatan

“It’s true that hospitals were overwhelmed in the beginning”

Your making up your own facts, all hospitals, not just those in NYC were full beyond capacity, converting other units into covid units and other staff into Covid ICU staff.

Your also admitting that this is not just a flu, but your using the ship to further justify that it was not that bad. Im not really sure how that makes sense, if its just the flu, then why would the ship be needed?

Im not sure about the specifics as to why the ship wasnt used. However, the ship was only to be used for non covid patients, relieving the hospitals from the regulat burden so they can cope with the covid patients. It so turned out that most patients were covid patients.

With regards to some treatments that are not being used. Keep in mind, medicine is not something in which one decides on a treatment and all just follow. It needs to be tested and trialed. Well, what if the treatment is bogus? Should we still push for it become some decided on their own that it’s effective?

The rate of development for treatment and management for Covid pts has been done on a scale never seen before, unfortunately there is a lot of available data of treatments that work and those that do not, and in what phases of the disease process they are effective and when not.

So pushing a treatment that by some theory and some hypothetical would be effective but was not been able to be proven to be effective, is not doing anyone any good.

Reb Eliezer.

“Trump downplaying its effect.”

Why are you blaming Trump for saying the same thing that everyone else was saying at the time. Initially, no one was taking the virus seriously, not Fauci not the media, not any association. But for some reason Trump was supposed to be the one to say that this is more serious than we really believe it to be?

How should is it that he would have medical-related information that others do not have? Oh, is it because he said that he had a feeling that it is more serious than others thought it to be, which was why he limited travel from affected countries?

Or is it because some feel the importance of playing politics and attributing blame to candidates that they dislike for no reason?

While i am sure that the politicians will point fingers at each other, Biden will blame Trump and Trump will blame Biden.

Yet, one thing remains clear, there are many people that have and will lose their life in a very brutal way, its a horrific situation and should have never come to this. If one has any regard for human life it should bother them to the core.

smerel

But a Healthy 20 year old can be a vector and host to the virus which can cause an older person to become infected.

BaalHabooze

Would you know any more specific information aside from saying that the person you know had a heart inflammation? Was it pericarditis, myocarditis, or endocarditis?

While the person you are referring to has unfortunately passed, you are making a correlation to the vaccine that was taken recently.

Was it the first or second dose?

Did the inflammation progress rapidly, minutes to hours?

While you may say that these details dont matter, you are making accusations and trying to convince people one way or another in a public forum, so please provide some more details to what actually happened.

You are oversimplifying something that is complex.

Preliminary data suggest that natural immunity from previous strains is below the desired level when it comes to the delta strain.

When compared to vaccine acquired immunity, while less effective than the previous strains, it still is within the desired range of immunity.

there is not a lot of data on the delta variant, but below is from an article in nature named:
Reduced sensitivity of SARS-CoV-2 variant Delta to antibody neutralization

“We examined the sensitivity of this strain to monoclonal antibodies and to antibodies present in sera from individuals who had recovered from COVID-19 (hereafter referred to as convalescent individuals) or who had received a COVID-19 vaccine, and then compared this strain with other strains of SARS-CoV-2. The Delta variant was resistant to neutralization by some anti-NTD and anti-RBD monoclonal antibodies, including bamlanivimab, and these antibodies showed impaired binding to the spike protein. Sera collected from convalescent individuals up to 12 months after the onset of symptoms were fourfold less potent against the Delta variant relative to the Alpha variant (B.1.1.7).”

This is somewhat of a complex matter.

B&Js created a legal structure that puts social responsibilities as part of their decision-making process. Their boards are obligated to do so. (they are a B-Corp).

Unilever now owns B&J. Yet, B&J has an independent board.

The B&J board is required to submit their yearly business and social plan for Unilever, Unilever has the right to reject the plan. As long as it is done in good faith. It so seems that Unilever may only reject their yearly plan if they disagree with the financial aspect of it.

This leaves Unilever in a tight spot. They might not love Isreal that much, but they do not want to lose market share. They are a financial company and not a social company.

I am sure there are some loopholes, such as determining that the social decisions of the board are not in line with socially accepted standards and actually are causing conflict. Furthermore, they may use the clause that allows them to reject the yearly business plan based on the potential for lost revenue.

The merger/sale agreement is public information.

philosopher

“My opinions are based on facts even if you don’t agree with them, unlike your supposed “fact” that natural RNAs don’t enter the nucleus which is totally false.”

Would you be so kind as to point out the source to this, so we can establish if this is fact or fiction?

Your argument against vaccines and preventive medicine has nothing to do with the Covid19 vaccine. This topic has been discussed and in the past by leaders of and leading poskim. The fact that you “believe” it to be unacceptable, should not concern others.

IYK

“Clearly you’ve all made up your mind that you know everything. Please explain the storms right now all over the world…”

It seems that you are engaging in the same behavior of which you are accusing others. We might not understand or know the reason for everything, but we still follow the written and oral law giving to us by Hashem. It is you that seems to believe that you understand the reasoning behind everything.

IYK,

I am sorry if what I wrote hurt your feelings. I dont know who you are or what happened to you in the past, whatever that may be I do hop you get help and are able to heal.

That said, I did take issue with what it seemingly was implied by your posts.

About some of Hashems commandments being arbitrary. While what happened to you might have hurt you to the point where eating on yom kippur and eating non kosher seems ok, the Torah says otherwise. So when some point that out and refuse to accept your subjective interpretation of what Hashem wants, and calls you out for publicly making up what Hashem has said, is not judging you as a human being.

I am not sure if the OP is a troll, an attempt at getting twisted subliminal messages across while posing as a ‘victim’ or a legitimate victimized individual.

In either case, the premise that connection to Hashem is what one decides it to be is contrary to what Hashem himself has stated. Hashems will is the Torah (written and oral), What you believe to be true, is not what Hashem says is true.

The fact that you are using the alleged suffering you bore as a justification for violating Hashem’s rule, makes it pretty clear that you have a decent understanding of right and wrong, and you are using an excuse to justify the wrong your doing.

I was trying to read your posts objectively, but you gravitate from complaining about people being judgemental (which you are guilty of, as was pointed out by others), to explaining your reasoning for making up how one is connected to Hashem.

If you have personal issues, that is something you need to deal with, and I hope you get help with that, but that does not afford you a license to change Hashem’s word.

My mind is made up. Don’t confuse me with the facts.

HI!! Thanks for dropping in!

CTL,

Is your statement factual or just an assumption?

Because you are accusing Rabbonim of having alternative reasons for their rulings.

Most treatments, including convalescent plasma, have little to no effect when given late in the disease process.

Especially for sick and intubated patients, there has been almost no difference in outcome.

However, when given early, there has been a lot of good results. This is also why we are seeing less mortality these days as opposed to early on when these otherwise stable patients were only given supportive treatments.

crslkwd,

Dr. B is pushing holistic medicine which has no scientific backing.

He has many such ridiculous treatment regiments.

There are many alternative providers with many alternative claims and made up treatment regiments.

There are a number of patients that have tried this treatment that you have listed and ended up on a ventilator.

There are a number of treatment options for patients that are having respiratory symptoms. Including nebulizers (beta-agonists and steroids).

What I would say in a public forum, the hospitals are fully capable of handling COVID patients, they are not above capacity and some have good treatment protocols, with teams of providers that have enormous experience treating COVID patients.

There has been a lot of positive feedback from recent patients that were admitted. Depending on where you live, I would suggest that if you have problems with your breathing or your primary care provider believes that you should go to the hospital. Rather go earlier than later. There are a number of treatments that are shown to be successful in helping patients recover sooner which means less negative effects on the body.

Charlie,

“I tried to raise frum support for Eliot Engel and got nowhere because he is a liberal Democrat. As a result, Israel’s biggest supporter in Washington is being replaced by an anti-Israel zealot.”

I think your making a very valid point, the question really is how can the Jewish voters unite and vote for the candidate that is aligned with our needs?

It seems that whatever has been tried has failed.

N0m,

“ He is the same vigorous yet modest leader, that he was then.”

You do know that a whole lot people question this sentiment and have a lot to go on.

“ At this time, words ring hollow.”

A. Its not just now but also during these events.

B. Words are powerful. Politicians openly backed these agitators.

Charlie,

Has trump pardoned any more people than any recent presidents?

“Dear Two,

I do not get your point. What do you surmise from that?”

It gives the impression that they actually support these events.