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Avram,
“What I intended to point out was how coordinated, rapid, and policed this boycott was from the outset and at a point in time when information was more scarce.”
Rapid indeed. So was the Russian invasion and its killing of civilians. The Russians may have been counting on the fact that reaction, at least the reactions that would matter will take some time, and by that time all will be over.
For the reaction (sanction and boycotts) to be effective, they needed to be deployed rapidly.
Russia initially lied to the world when it announced that it has no intention of invading Ukraine and is moving its military away from the border. This was a lie, and likely to avoid any rapid reaction to their offensive.
Some companies are pulling away from the Russian market to avoid being hit with government-induced sanctions. Others to avoid negativity.
Russia is indeed being canceled and the way it APPEARS at this moment, for good reason. As you pointed out, I sure hope that this never gets utilized for other ideologies. But right now, this is not some ideology that people subscribe to, it’s a mass-murdering scenario and needs to be stopped. If these are the means to stop it, it may be worth it.
Lastly, I am sure that it took little convincing for most companies to divest and pull out of Russia, with the tanking and unstable economy, not much business is to be made in Russia at this point. They just run the risk of Russia finding alternative companies to work with, such as Chinese companies.
We cannot have it both ways, we cannot cancel companies for assisting or being contracted by Hitler and yet complain when companies are being pressured to cease doing business with or even in Russia.
There always is the risk that cancel culture may be extended for political and social causes, but that does not mean that using it for evil of such magnitude and extreme, such as killing civilians and hospitals is uncalled for.
Hill of beans,
“Should we also stop the Choson from breaking the glass under the Chupa since there are well documented instances, multiple times, where he cut himself and need to be taken from the chasuna?”
What the Choson chooses to do, especially if there is a minhag associated with his actions is not to compare to placing the Choson on a table throwing him off balance while elevated from the ground putting him at significant unnecessary risk.
“To Mentch:
Um, .5 and .50 are the same amount.”Yeah, that stood out when I was reading it. He probably meant .5 and 0.05 Which is a significant difference.
AAQ
“ But, seriously, let’s share information and think critically together. To your comparisons with smkoers, etc – they are already paying more: medical for smoking and life insurance for obesity, and all pay co-pays. People at fault of accidents – their insurance pays damages and their premiums go up.”
With regards to insurance, I do not think that premiums are linked to peoples behaviors or prior medical conditions. Especially when they are enrolled in company insurance policies.
Better would be, if people are given incentives to lead healthier lives and make better health decisions. Such as reductions in insurance policies for maintaining a good BMI or for being enrolled and actually showing up to gym a couple of times a week. Being fully vaccinated can also be considered, like this the insurance companies will have a healthier customer base, with less expenses.
Its not going to happen, its not how things are set up. But that would be a bit more solution oriented and beneficial to all parties.
AAQ,
Re “nudging”, who is providing guidance to this? Government officials or public health officials?
Syag,
“ wow, sounds like something i said rubbed you wrong”.
Not at all, I was just trying to explain myself, I didnt feel “rubbed” by your polite inquiry.
ubiq,
“I don’t have a solution since Autonomy is critical, and people are allowed to change their minds. But it isnt straightforward .”
-100%, it is very complex and as you mentioned poor decision-making strains the healthcare system and in return, it hurts others that need the system.
This is also a complicated halacha question, do we have autonomy in a religious sense or just in a secular sense? What if someone was diagnosed with a heart attack, the accepted standard of care would be to remove the occlusion, and in return, they are expected to lead an otherwise normal life. However, for some odd reason, the patient refuses further care, which may result in death or permanent complicated heart failure. I believe that such a patient is obligated, in a religious sense to seek the appropriate care.
Prophylactic care, such as acquired immunity (vaccines), has been accepted as a mainstay in medicine. But the Covid19 vaccine is still being worked out, we are not sure how it compares with regards to natural immunity, or those with elevated titers.
Furthermore, if the increased strain on the health care system (partially a consequence of the vaccine mandates, as the already understaffed facilities now had to fire valuable staff) is only temporary, such as until the current wave resides, if hospitalization levels were to fall to acceptable levels, will the mandates be re-evaluated?
Lastly, while I am a strong proponent of any efforts to fight this virus by all means, including vaccinations. Patient (human) autonomy is a very serious matter, I would shudder to think if my consent would not matter if I were to be a patient. This is why I tried making my point that medical-related mandates are dangerous, it’s like a slippery slope, good intentions but hard to draw the line once implemented.
Syag,
” I don’t remember if you mentioned what area of medicine you practice”
-Correct, I don’t believe that an anonymous online post should be based on assumed credentials, for all one knows I spent hours on a post to make it seem as if it was written by someone that deals with medical matters.
I would prefer that my posts should be accepted on the merits of their content, not as if they were written by an authority.
I do the same when I read posts written by other people, I accept the content as is, unless I know the author and respect them as an authority.Reb E,
“It is like children. If they don’t do it voluntarily, they must be forced.”
I am not sure what you are responding or referring to, I have also not read through most of the posts yet.
However, the basic concept of forcing people into a specific treatment goes against the basic individual rights of autonomy. While there has been some legislation in some states with regards to vaccines, in general, it goes against medicine.
Besides, medicine is and science, in general, is evolving, what was believed to be therapeutic in the past, at times after more understanding is now believed to be detrimental, different doctors may have different opinions, so it is understandable that the individual gets to decide on getting treatment or not treated, even when their decision goes against the standard of accepted care, there is no standard that is acceptable when there is no consent from the patient.
With the Covid vaccines, it was initially marketed as something that will make Covid disappear and life will get back to normal, as we knew it. With that pretense, mandates had some context and made sense, because the lack of widespread vaccination meant that the world would be stuck in this state and vaccinating everyone, was the answer to this.
This was a false premise, the vaccines, as it stands today is not capable of eradicating the virus, maybe something will change, a better vaccine or something else may happen, but right now, while the vaccinated in general are fairing better than the unvaccinated, that does not make it more Ok to force people into any specific treatment, even if it is a prophylactic treatment.
If we were to go back to the initial reasons for vaccinating the population, it would be deemed a failure, but its ok, data gets produced, science evolves and we act accordingly, but we need to understand that its still a work in progress, we don’t have all the answers, what we thought would happen, did not happen, so forcing people into something that we haven’t yet figured out, for the mere sake that these individuals will be less likely to have severe symptoms if and when they are infected with Covid, does not make a lot of sense.
-my 2 scents.
Abba_S
Are you implying that there still is some work to be done for EVs to eliminate the potential issues you noted or that we should accept the problems as is and not work ok solving them?
GH,
“ Studies by various public interest groups show that tax compliance among Republicans is much lower than Dems and that over 80 percent of IRS ordered tax refunds for violations of the code come from Republicans (as imputed from FEC reports) .”
-Maybe its due to more Republicans/Conservatives having jobs and businesses, so tax laws and tax crimes are more relevant and prevalent to this political group.
Unommim,
What are your qualifications that should make us dismiss what others are saying?
On a micro level, can install a solar roof or solar pannels with battery packs, this would essentially mean charging your EV off of the sun.
On a macro level, solar panel farms can be created. Some businesses with large open roofs are doing it and selling the solar generated power to energy companies.
There will be those that will focus on problems and those that would focus on creating solutions.
But to remain on topic, all major car companies have designated billions in R&D money for EVs. Because Tesla has shown them that its the way to go.
Phil,
“Producing electricity does not produce less pollution that using gas as an energy choice.”
– Solar energy is free and clean.“ The smartest way to go about burning less fuel is making better hybrid cars. Hybrid cars use about 30-40% less gas than regular cars”
– Hybrid is an old fad, car companies attempted to push it. However, people were not buying it. Unless you suggest forcing people to purchase Hybrid cars, allow the private sector to innovate and develop.The idea of hybrids in the day and age of EVs is silly, essentially installing two a combustion engine and a battery when the current batteries are comparable in range to gas engines is an unnecessary cost.
Abba_S
Your post is full of complaints, it seems that you get your information from random internet sites. I had a Tesla and was very happy with the performance.
There are so many issues with combustion cars, however, because we are used to it, we accept it as is. I know many people that have many issues with their combustion cars, engine and transmission issues. EPA estimates that are far from accurate, etc.
It seems that for some, to accept EVs as the future, or as the current would require a paradigm shift. It has better performance, less mechanical issues, significantly more comfortable ride, one can keep it plugged in overnight and start their day with a full battery, no need to visit the gas station. It can be plugged in while one is at the shopping mall, and full up their battery all while they run their errands. There is so much more.
Abba_S
“These models aren’t cheap a Model S starts at $90K and tops off at $150K while amodel 3 starts at $39k – $50K.”
– Model S is a luxury model, Model 3 base model is 38,690 which is that high. Cybertruck baseprice was said to be at 39k, very reasonable for that size vehicle.
Furthermore, these are the initial rollout cars, with additional competition and innovation prices will likely be even cheaper.” But after 100k miles they can start losing it’s ability to hold the charge so that you will have to charge more often”
– Batteries can be replaced with an estimated cost of 3-7k. If all that needs to be replaced every 100k miles is the battery, that’s not expensive.“A Telsa owner who needed a battery replacement decided to blow up the car rather than pay the $22K to replace it. Which you can google if you think I am making this up.”
– I am sure there are a lot of people that are not happy about any one thing, so finding a story online is not going to change much.“Another problem is how will all these EV battaries get recycled?
– Below is from the Tesla website.What happens to Tesla battery packs once they reach their end of life?
Unlike fossil fuels, which release harmful emissions into the atmosphere that are not recovered for reuse, materials in a Tesla lithium-ion battery are recoverable and recyclable. Battery materials are refined and put into a cell, and will still remain in the cell at the end of their life, when they can be recycled to recover its valuable materials for reuse over and over again.Extending the life of a battery pack is a superior option to recycling for both environmental and business reasons. For those reasons, before decommissioning a consumer battery pack and sending it for recycling, Tesla does everything it can to extend the useful life of each battery pack. Any battery that is no longer meeting a customer’s needs can be serviced by Tesla at one of our service centers around the world. None of our scrapped lithium-ion batteries go to landfilling, and 100% are recycled.
AAQ,
“Even if all of this makes sense, we need to know proportions and where to focus. ”
– Are you referring to the government? at this point, the innovation and acceleration of EVs including the EV charging network has largely been done by the private sector.The rate of acceleration is remarkable and its only going to increase with presence of the large auto makers that have EVs a priority.
AAQ
“that is not true. Powerlines outside of major cities are fragile.”
Solution a. Solar panels with battery packs.
Solution b. Gas powered backup generator.Some of the OPs arguments are based on incorrect facts.
– Currently, EVs have a marketed range of 358 miles, (source Tesla website, model 3).
– Increasing range per charge is not that difficult of a problem to overcome, its just that most people don’t need it.
– Tesla has marketed their upcoming Cybertruck at 500+ miles per charge and hinted at possibly 600+ miles capacity options. Hummer is marketing their upcoming SUVs at 350 miles per charge.
– Superchargers can get you 200 miles in 15 minutes. Hummer claims they will have the capabilities of rapid charging, adding 100 miles in just 10 minutes.
– Power outages, would affect gas stations, as it will affect EV charging stations. Either way, they can focus on solar coupled with battery pack storage.
EVs are here, there are fewer mechanics to break and fix than a combustion engine has. EVs also perform better and have been shown to be reliable.
Furthermore, technology constantly improves, especially if there are profits and competition. There are billions of dollars allocated for R&D, the current EV and charging capabilities by far exceed those of just a few years ago. Based on the rate of development it will only get better.
Its not the future, its the current.
“The idea that the president can voice disagreement with a jury’s verdict is a chutzpah.”
– While we might not like it, it basically shows we live in a free country.When one sneezes it causes an increase to the intrathoracic pressure that may decrease cardiac output and decrease coronary circulation for a very short while.
So while we do not know the mechanism that caused people to die from a sneeze (Sternutation), it can probably be explained.
However, in general this is meant to be understood that people didn’t have diseases or medical conditions that progressed over time, rather they died much quicker. So maybe the sneezing was not meant to be literal rather as an expression, or maybe it is literal.
Health,
“What if they ask?
You should lie?”
– Or simply refuse to disclose any of their personal health information.
Either way, the executive order has expired, and even if not, is not relevant to the overall discussion.“I’m not investigating every State to prove to you that DemonCrats Rule all over is violating people’s Rights!”
– But you still continue to make accusations against them. Without reason.“So you can consider my Post as Opinion.”
– Finally!Health,
“Now what can patients do with the script for HCQ – chew on the paper?!?”
– a. They do not need to disclose to the pharmacy the condition for the script. b. Can go to a neighboring state.
However, you have not answered the question. What are you trying to prove with this limited executive order, which the NY governer has ordered at the time, with your overall accusing the government with interfering elsewhere?
(Personally, I agree that Governor Cuomo acted inappropriately, but that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand).“So when hospitals hear the recommendations from the government and it doesn’t include those drugs, they stay far away.”
– Are you able to substantiate this statement of yours?Health,
“ That’s an outright Lie. You obviously didn’t read that article on YWN News.
The State Board of Pharmacy restricted HCQ for Covid!
Probably a lot pharmacies don’t even know it.
You’re the one with Agenda, pretending that the Government has nothing to do with the Treatment of this Pandemic!”
– Thats exactly what I wrote. The state (NY) limited pharmacies, providers in the state and elsewhere had no restrictions to practice and prescribe as they saw fit.“ Stop Lying!
In one case against the Hospital, that the family requested Ivermectin, the patient died.
So what the Hospital did couldn’t be any Worse, by giving Ivermectin.”
– Lying means saying something that is factually not true. All you have is an assumption based on a question that is easy to answer. Not the typical definition of a lie.“ A Fascist Government says – My way or You DIE!“
– Now be so kind and reveal to us where the government is actively interfering with treatments for covid. Ivermectin and hydroxy are listed in the USP, no further action required on their part. So now what?Health,
“Who cares?
Me and whoever put the C19early.com on the Web don’t care what the FLCCC says!
Why would you bring in FLCCC into this Conversation?”
– First, they are the only group of providers that officially promote the usage of Ivermectin for Covid patients. Second, the C19 website actually refers to the FLCCC for official guidance. For the above two reasons, you should care, or expected to care.“It doesn’t. It was just a Rant.”
– Thanks for explaining.“Now why is that?
I theorized that this is because of our government.”
– You are free to voice your personal opinions, yet these groups are very clear as to why they refuse to accept the data, simply because the quality of the data is poor.“I asked this before – why did some hospitals fought against families that wanted Ivermectin – that it ended in a court case?!?”
– Because they demanded a treatment that the hospitalist didn’t approve, and the hospital didn’t believe would be of benefit to the patient. You can just read about some potential treatment on YWN and expect the hospital doctors to give it based on that article.“So the only reason I can think of – is the Government is becoming more & more Fascist!”
– Nah, for the above-mentioned reasons. But then again, you are entitled to your own theories, despite them being inexplicable and unsubstantiated.“I already proved it in NYS that they refused to allow a Script for HCQ.”
– What is your point, does this now prove that there is a broader federal mandate against Ivermectin or any other treatments?
Also, NYS’s mandate was for pharmacies to limit dispensing Hydroxychloroquine for Covid related illnesses, providers were never restricted and were able to prescribe what they felt was appropriate.Health,
“But when they did many Studies that proved effectiveness,”
– Actually no, even the FLCCC that is behind the Ivermectin push came out against HQC.
“I saw an article from NYU, from a guy named Caplan, but he was published in Medscape.
A lot of real docs put comments on his article that was against HCQ & Ivermectin.
Why in the world would Medscape publish this guy?
Simply because the Covid therapies are guided by the Genocidal Government!”– I am having a hard time following your train of thought. What does an article with comments have anything to do with the Government?
It seems that you have set your mind already, based on studies posted on the website you keep on mentioning. However, despite the data posted being acceptable to you, it is not to the people that call the shots.
I am not pro-government or siding with any political group, but I find it hard to follow your logic and blame the government for something that they don’t even involve themselves.Health,
“ I don’t care if some people don’t acknowledge the Info.
You call them Medical Institutions.
Name them.”
– It doesn’t matter if you care or not, but your not making sense when your accusing the government when the deciding medical bodies refuse to consider this data.Re naming institutions, the vast majority, nearly all of them. Any community or university hospital that comes to mimd or established medical association that you can think of.
The government is not the deciding factor here.
Health,
“That’s Exactly My Point!
If you’re Not too lazy, you’ll go to C19early.com, and you’ll See that Data.
The fact that they approved Remedsivir and Not HCQ & Ivermectin is More than Negligence, it’s Simply Corruption from the Genocidal Government!!!”Understood that this is your point. However, why are you directing me to a website when almost all (if not all) medical institutions refuse to acknowledge the data posted on that site. I am still confused as to why you keep labeling the government when it is the doctors and hospitals that refuse to acknowledge the data as acceptable.
Remdesivir has been addressed just a couple of posts ago.
The treatments you are advocating for have been approved years ago for use and are part of the USP, any provider may prescribe it as they see fit, there is no need for any government agency to issue any approvals for those therapies.
I am not one to give advice on these matters, but I wouldnt worry about statistics to determine your future.
Health,
Because they believe the data isnt there at this point to support the usage of those drugs. Apparently these doctors are not in agreement with you.
Health,
2scents -“There are no government regulations against prescribing these medications.”
“We know that already. I discussed this previously.”
– Correct, but you have not adequately addressed this.
Below was your response.
“The only thing that I can think of – is the hospital is afraid of the government.”
– You established the premise by stating that the government is interfering with how to treat Covid patients and not allowing doctors to practice as they see fit. But unable to connect the dots. Instead, you make an assumption about the hospital being afraid of the government, despite there not being any mandate against doctors or hospitals treating patients one way or another.
“Some do & some don’t.
A lot of them don’t know how to treat Covid.”– So it seems your implying that some medical providers suck, what does that have to do with the government?
I am just trying to understand the logic behind your arguments and the negative labeling of the government.
There are no government regulations against prescribing these medications.
Even if it were true that some people only seek care at the point when they are doing so bad that they require admission to a hospital, what about the people that do seek care when they have the sniffles, are their doctors prescribing any if these medications?
Philospher,
“2cents, I did not ask for a list of scientists from AAQ.”
– Correct, no one said you did ask.However, you did write the following:
“AAQ, you never mention which articles you read and by which doctors they are written. And I honestly don’t care.”– I just pointed out the hypocrisy of your posts, making accusations while being guilty of the same.
philosopher,
” the way I communicate, whether you like it or not, has nothing to do with the topic at hand”
– It has to do with your posts. Your extended posts with little actual substance making a poor attempt at dismissing the position of the vast majority is what I was referring to.Phil
“I find your posts lacking of any EVIDENCE proving my position wrong”
Correct, I have not tried to present any arguments, all I did was ask some questions, something you call “shtech and point fingers in my direction”.
“If you get your info from other sources than mainstream news media and official political channels then you’d know that there’s no such thing as the “majority of doctors” supporting the so-called vaccine.”
– The above is something you established, but not factual.“especially when doctors cannot freely voice their opinions on this issue.”
– Any of your personal doctors voice being suppressed?“About cherry picking I say the same about you.”
– At least your being honest, cherry-pick the people that seemed to be aligned with your position, don’t care about the rest of the data or scientists.“If that’s called cherry picking in your book it’s simply because of WHAT conclusion I’ve arrived to which doesn’t sit well with you…”
– Cherry picking: is the act of pointing to individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position while ignoring a significant portion of related and similar cases or data that may contradict that position.Health,
What does the government have to do with this?
If hospitals refuse to use it, that is a decision made by the administration or the group of doctors managing the care of the patient.
If individual providers believe that a drug is effective against the Covid virus, they can prescribe it.
If the patients only seek care once they are at the point that they need to be admitted and are at the mercy of the hospitalists or doctors employed by the hospital, that refuse Ivermectin, why should the government get involved?
I am just trying to understand the logic behind your arguments.
Phil,
Very lengthy posts with very little substance. Effective communication is saying the most using the least amount words.
I will respond to this:
“However it seems as the only ones you listen to are those who speak on the liberal mainstream media news or through political channels.”
You don’t know what from where I contain whatever information it is that I possess.
However, you dismiss the fact that the vast majority of scientists are not in agreement with your position. Rather, you pick out a few only because they seem to be in agreement with your position.
This is a very biased approach, seems like you made up your mind, you just need to cherry-pick a few people that happen to support part of what you believe in.
Philosopher,
Interesting to see how you accuse another poster for not posting a detailed list of articles or doctors but proceed to do the same.
“ There are many, many prominent virologists and doctors who are against the so-called vaccines. Again, I’m not interested in listing all of them or even a few of them. They are there I’d you are interested in finding them.”
What makes you chose which accept something from any one scientist vs another one, or rather vs the vast majority of scientists?
Furthermore, even Dr. Malone doesn’t consider himself THE pioneer of the new vaccine. The fact that he is contracted by the US army is that supposed to give him additional credibility, more than the vast majority of his colleagues?
Health,
If the drugs that you are promoting are effective as you claim them to be, they should be prescribed to patients prior to them being hospitalized, Why blame the hospitals, when these patients could have avoided the hospital, per your claim?
Health,
I am not really sure what your point is, the medications that are used, either anti-inflammatory, anticoagulants, or other trial medications are to limit the adverse effect of the virus, they are not viralcidal or viralstatic as are the new drugs that will hopefully be approved shortly.
With regards to some stories that you read online, the fact of the matter is that there are no restrictions placed on Ivermectin that would prevent providers from prescribing them or pharmacies from dispensing these drugs.
Health,
Most of the drugs that are currently being used to treat Covid patients are repurposed. You specifically are pushing/advocating for 2 drugs that in normal times would require rigorous quality trials for them to be recommended.
Your questioning as to why Remdesivir was approved, I assume this was because this was early on and people were grasping at straws. Hospitals needed options to treat dying patients, so this was used.
Furthermore, who is in the way of providers writing scripts for the drugs that you are promoting? And if the patient’s local pharmacy is refusing to fill the script for some odd reason, they can always go to another pharmacy. Being that these are repurposed drugs, the pharmacies should already be carrying these drugs, so there really is no issue there.
Reb E,
It is unfortunate that Covid has become political, on both sides of the political spectrum. However, who is to decide if lockdowns are pro-life as lockdowns change life as we know it.
The republican states have not done that bad compared to the states with strict lockdowns.
lowerourtuition11210
“Heard many years ago.most minyanum are matza minyanim. 20 minutes and done.”
Those are 18-minute minyanim.
So the children use the both names? If they work professionally and want to keep their name, together with their spouses already hyphenated name, it may turn out to be one long name!
Abba_S
“undoubedtly they are both at fault to some extent”
Why do you say so?
Yabia,
Does the secular year 2021 have any significance that would limit the topics that you feel jews should busy themselves?
Is it so that yemenites didnt change much from the times of the Beis Hamikdush? If so, can we assume that at the times of the churban jews had peyos like the yemenites have?
It really depends on what metrics or capabilities we would be looking at.
If it is GDP spend, total or ratio of insured vs the uninsured, available resources?
For those with very complicated health problems, I don’t think we find many Americans going to Israel for more advanced care, vs Israelis that come to the USA for advanced treatments.
If we were to compare flying to sailing, one might have to board the airplane at least 3 days prior to the flight.
Reb E,
Thanks for explaining.