Dooms,

“Here is 2Cents Lying that there ARE vaxxed vs unvaxxed retrospective studies. But when I checked out the studies that 2Cents “pointed out” they are NOT vaxxed vs unvaxxed!!! And 2Cents writes that she KNEW they were not vaxxed vs unvaxxed when she posted that they WERE!”

A. In case anyone was complimenting Dooms on being only on the facts and not on the name calling, well here you have Dooms calling me a liar, Guess what, your an idiot.

you know you are an idiot? Because myself and others have addressed this very point you just made numerous times, yet you continue to bring it up as if you are adding some substance.
Yes, this IS a retrospective study, and yes, it is limited to the MMR vaccine, where have I lied??

I have mentioned this many times, this is about the MMR vaccine, which was the topic at the time that this was posted, however you are either very dumb or just a fraud so you hang your arguments on twisting the truth which is why most people that actually rely on true facts and true data are not with you in your cult-like anti-medicine belief.

B. I have asked you specifically, what exactly do you want should be studied that has not been studied?

C. Autism, that has been the claim against the MMR vaccine, that has been proven to be non-existent.

D. All other diseases that we are seeing these days, have been studied with no correlation between the diseases and the vaccines. In fact, the vaccinated group has shown to have less of these diseases.

E. SIDS, no correlation, in fact, there is a significant reduction with vaccinations. Just in case you will twist this one, not just SIDS has seen a significant reduction, postneonatal mortality, in general, has also seen a significant reduction, so whichever way you or your people at these radical fringe blogs want to twist this, there is a reduction. (lol to the comment about nurses standing by with crash carts for infants that are being vaccinated).

F. The history of anti-vaccine is not recent, this has been ongoing since the very start. From claiming that smallpox is not dangerous to the point of arguing that disease is caused by the mind and the ‘germ theory’ is not true. Of course, we have Wakefield with his fraudulent study that began blaming the MMR vaccine on autism.
His study was confirmed to be a manipulation of incorrect facts, he reported results that were false and did not even take the effort to defend his writings.

So once again, where did I lie in this thread (I can point to numerous times that you have either intentionally lied or simply just posted what others have lied about) and also, what study are you looking for?

Dooms,

“Based on WHAT STUDIES did Vaccine Industry CHANGE the Vaccine Inserts from Recently Vaccinated ARE a Risk of spreading Disease to Recently Vaccinated are “little risk” of Spreading Disease???”

Why are you giving out homework?

If you really want to know, do a quick search, its the age of information. One example below.

PubMed15106106

Dooms,

“But you are WRONG! These studies compare Vaxxed Children with Vaxxed Children – only difference is some got MMR and some did not! So it is NOT a Vaxxed vs Unvaxxed Study as You Provaxxers said it was.”

You are correct, this is only focused on the MMR vaccine, this is what I intended to show when I posted these studies.
Are you acknowledging the safety of the MMR shots by now moving away from the MMR and acknowledging these studies only to focus on other vaccines??

are there any specific vaccines that you make any claims to?

Lucy,

Not sure what your point is, this seems like a pretty clear advisory and warning from the pharmaceutical company, not a whitewash.

in fact, it seems that the inserts you are quoting is in line what was published in Pediatrics.

“Apnea occurring within 72 hours (peak, 12–24 hours) of administration of DTwP vaccine to ELBW infants <31 weeks’ gestation was described in up to 12% of recipients of whole-cell pertussis-containing vaccines in some studies”.

Once we’re at it, any viral or bacterial infection for these smaller infants are considered dangerous and deadly.

Dooms,

”
“I asked you if these studies were vaxxed vs unvaxxed and you said yes, they were.
NO, they are NOT. I don’t blame you. The researchers and government”

This is not fraud, not sure why you have to label them like this, its only focused on the MMR vaccine, why does this constitute fraud??

For now, can you lay to rest that there are studies comparing children with the MMR vaccine to children without the MMR vaccine which show that there is no difference to autism?

What other studies are you looking for?

There are studies comparing cognitive test scores that were done in the Philippines. Vaccinated children scored better.
Regarding asthma and allergies, vaccinated children had a lower rate of those.

If the primary reason as to why Mr Rowe is stepping down was due to this being against daas torah, this would be a very valid reason and Mr Rowe should have said so, not just mention in passing reference that Rav Epstien also holds of his opinion.

“2scents and Milhouse are clearly pushing an agenda, are you a pediatrician that get paid for vaccinating your patients?”

I cannot speak for others, but I prefer to base my position on facts and real science. When you or others oost nonsense and expect to get away with it, all I do is expose the truth. that in its own is an agenda.

Now of course, once you reach a point of not being able to validate the conspiracy you so strongly believe in, you just blame everyone of being involved.

If only your agenda would be to know the true facts you wouldn’t be so defensive, you would appreciate that lies and made up data is not something most people are ok with.

Daas,

All of this is assumptions, there are a number of other hatzolahs that collect from insurance and have been doing this for a very long time.

Has it impacted their care to the community in a negative way?
Do these areas base transports decisions on insurance compensation?

If the answer is no, then these assumptions are proven to be incorrect.

The answer is no. It so happens to be that the hatzolahs that have been collecting insurance are known to go the distance and transport decisions are based on the patients needs.

Mammele,

In that case, insurance will not compensate for the transport to the distant facility and will only pay the cost of s shorter transport.

Unless there is a justification such as a required intervention that only the further facility is able to do.

A. What fraud? They should have a quality assurance system like every ems system has, all documentation should be reviewed, if done properly there shouldnt an issue with fraud.

B. Insurance does not dictate what treatment should or should not be done, they may refuse payment, yet the ems responders do not treat according to what insurance pays.

Besides, government already controls ems treatment and protocols.

C. I hope they have a solution to the legal technicalities.

However this is already done for a very long time in a lot if different hatzolah systems, if it works for them, it should work for others.

Ubiquitin,

You make valid points and I am not familiar with the structure. However you call them private and for profit, are the hatzolohs that already collect private and for profit agencies?

Is it a bad thing that they no longer will be dependent on our donations to cover their operating budget?

Health,

I read most of that case, there is no mention of the cotwatch, furthermore, the court acknowledges that there is no evidence that the shot was connected to the SIDS, there were many other possible factors including the fact that the child was born prematurely and was recently taken to the hospital for respiratory complaints.

Also, the child was found face down, with a pillow and loose blanket.

Yet the court ruled that the parents do not have the burden of proving the link, and the pharmaceutical company has not proven that there was a different cause to the SIDS.

Dooms,

“Wrong! Thimerosal was NOT removed. It was shuffled around. When it was EXPOSED that the amount of
mercury in vaccines exceeded EPA safety guidelines,”

Would you mind pointing out which CHILDREN vaccine still contain Thimerosal?

Furthermore, now that it has been removed from all Children vaccines and is only used in SOME flu vaccines (multi-dose vials), has that affected the rate of autism?

I will repeat, unlike you stated, thimerosal has not been shifted around, no children vaccines still contain them, even the flu shots are available as single dose vials without Thimerosal.

So what you said is incorrect, others would call it a lie. (by the way, this has been discussed earlier yet you just fail to acknowledge it and keep on repeating this lie).

Where are you getting your (mis)information? is it from age of autism??

Dooms,

Is the source of your information the website age of autism??

“1. Johns Hopkins Patient Guide warns the immunocompromised to “Avoid contact with children who are recently vaccinated,” and to “Tell friends and family who are sick, or have recently had a live vaccine (such as chicken pox, measles, rubella, intranasal influenza, polio or smallpox) not to visit”.

Can you please point out where the guide is?

This has long not been the case, in fact, John Hopkins went out of the way to clear this misconception and write that this is not the case and there is no risk even for cancer patients.

“2. Adults have contracted polio from recently vaccinated infants. A father from Staten Island ended up in a wheel chair after contracting polio while changing his daughter’s diaper. He received a 22.5 million dollar award in 2009.”

Adults, or just one case?
This was from the OPV, this happened nearly 30 years ago. The OPV vaccine is not given in the united states.

Dooms,

A. There are retrospective studies, I have pointed out a few, why are you still requesting them when they actually exist?

B. Can you please point me to a study that links vaccines to autism?

Dooms,

Can you please provide the source for someone receiving compensation based on the Cotwath breathing?

Dr Scheibner claimed in 1993 that vaccines are the main contributor to SIDS, yet from 1992 until 2006 vaccination rates went from 53% to 92%, yet in the same time SIDS has decreased with 81%.

She does not have the credentials to have an opinion, the data she provided was proven to be incorrect, the Japan claims she madehas proven to just the opposite of what she claimed.

In fact, there are many studies done that show that vaccines actually reduce the cases of SIDS. PubMed 17400342.

As was mentioned earlier, Dr Scheiber was awarded the bent spoon aware. which is awarded to the perpetrator of the most preposterous piece of pseudoscientific piffle” (in case you didn’t realize, not much of a prestigious award).

So yes, the rest of the world does not fall for studies that are incorrect, studies that contain incorrect facts, so we discard her junk science and her little invention.

Turth,

“DR ROBERT MENDELSON
If immunizations were responsible for the diminishing or disappearance of these diseases in the United States, one must ask why they disappeared simultaneously in Europe, where mass immunizations did not take place.”

I am sure that you are familiar with Dr Mendelsohn’s work, He was anti-medicine and had a whole list of stuff against medicine, including that male doctors, mistreat female patients.
He was also of the opinion that all prenatal care we do is dangerous, he also was a strong advocate against hospital births.

He was not the only physician that was against vaccines,

Dr. Immanuel Pfeiffer argued that smallpox is not contagious. after being invited to a hospital in Boston he contracted smallpox and became critically ill.

Maybe if Dr. Mendelsohn would not be against medicine, he would still be alive today.

Being that some of you consider yourself pro measles and pro polio, how about we redo the challenge that was done in the early 1900s, and subject yourself to these yummy viruses.

Unfortunately, there are a number of recent hospitalizations and admissions to ICU of unvaccinated children that contracted the measles virus, they developed bad cases of pneumonia, these are the short-term complications.

These children are victims of their parents’ nonsensical belief that is based on garbage science.

Dooms,

“Folks, it is Very Sad that Yserbius is incapable of understanding that just because He or the CDC does not AGREE with the 157 Studies Linking Vaccines to Autism, it is still a LIE to say There AREN’T any studies linking
Vaccines to Autism. Of course, there are.”

That is NOT (Mods, sorry for the CAPS) what Yserbius has stated, not that they disagree with these studies (which may or may not be the case), only that they do not imply what you say that they imply.

At this point, I am fairly convinced that you are not such a rational person, more like an ‘alternative’ person.

Dooms,

“When you add up SIDS + Unknown Causes (what’s difference?) + accidental suffocation / strangulation
you will the number of HEALTHY Babies dying in their sleep BARELY CHANGED!”

Once again, you are twisting the truth.

Posted in Pediatrics.

Postneonatal deaths in total of have declined 21.9% where SIDS have declined 38.9%.

The increases in other areas (by a percent or so) are the reason why the overal postneonatal rate has not declined as much as the SIDS rate has declined.

Unlike you posted, there was an overall decline in postneonatal mortality. There has not been any change in name, SIDS is still SIDS, just like before all mortality up until the first year of age goes under the postneonatal category.

Dooms,

“I quoted from the Merck MANUAL which explains the causes of encephalitis as:”

Not sure why you are implying that this was not what I was referring to. You misquoted as if the Merck manual (or insert) implies that the MMR vaccine is not safe, it actually implies just the opposite, in fact, it clearly states the opposite.
I posted it and you just move on, as if nothing happened.

As I stated earlier, you are either very dumb or just a fraud.

Dooms,

As the study I posted earlier details the decline we see in sIDS yet more children receive vaccines than before, which demonstrates that SIDS have nothing to do with vaccines.

Dooms,

You lied (or just reposted from some radical site) about the MMR insert, I posted the actual insert which clearly indicates the opposite of what you implied.

Do you have an agenda, because truth and facts are not your thing.

Dooms,

This has been rehashed so many times, yet you just repeat it time after time as if no one has explained this to you.

Since you do not acknowledge the response, I would assume that your intention is not the facts, rather to overload the discussion with repetitive nonsense.

If you would appreciate a comprehensive review of the VAERS reporting system and the data, read below.

“This comprehensive review of death reports to VAERS for the period 1 July 1997 through 31 December 2013 indicates that the most common causes of death in VAERS were consistent with the leading causes of death in the US population (Table 6) [13]. The 2149 deaths described in this study were reported to VAERS during a period of time when approximately 2 billion doses of vaccine were distributed for use in the United States. This translates to roughly 1 reported death per 1 million doses of vaccine distributed. Because the majority of death reports were in children, the most common causes of death were in this age group. SIDS was the leading cause of death (28.1%) among all reports and accounted for 51.7% of death reports in infants, which is consistent with infant mortality data that place SIDS as the third leading cause of death in the United States among infants, after congenital malformations, deformations, and chromosomal abnormalities; and disorders related to short gestation and low birthweight [13, 16]. The male predominance of death reports in our study is driven by SIDS reports in which males accounted for 62%. This is consistent with studies that found males to be at higher risk of SIDS [17]. SIDS occurs rarely during the first month of life and peaks between 2–3 months of age [17]. Because SIDS peaks at a time when children are receiving many recommended vaccinations, it would not be unexpected to observe a coincidental close temporal relationship between vaccination and SIDS [18]. SIDS deaths in the United States have been declining since the early 1990s for a variety of factors that include recommended changes in sleeping position and environment, clarification of the case definition, and diagnostic coding shifts [19–22]. This downward trend in SIDS reports has also been observed in SIDS reports submitted to VAERS since the early 1990s [7] and has continued during the years of this review from 1997 through 2013. There is considerable evidence that vaccination is not causally associated with SIDS [18, 22, 23], including an Institute of Medicine (IOM) review in 2003 that rejected a causal association between the whole cell pertussis–containing vaccine (which is no longer in use in the United States) and SIDS and between exposure to multiple simultaneous vaccines and SIDS [21].”

I realize that the post is getting a bit long, but this is from the CDC:

Anyone who gives or receives a licensed vaccine in the U.S. is encouraged to report any significant health problem that occurs after vaccination. An adverse event can be reported even if it is uncertain or unlikely that the vaccine caused it. Reporting to VAERS helps scientists at CDC and FDA better understand the safety of vaccines

ANYONE CAN REPORT TO VAERS, its encouraged and easy to do so, the report does not need to even include evidence that the illness is linked to vaccine.

Dooms,.

“Rav Shmuel shlitah said that Yeshivas/BY may not stop unvaccinated children from attending Yeshiva/BY.
You don’t consider that an anti-vax position?”

Nope note at all, this is not an anti-vax position, it just means that the schools must accept them.
Furthermore, he has not said this when there was an outbreak, even if he were to say so, does not mean that he recommends not vaccinating. otherwise, he would have said so.

Dooms,

“Vaccines are NOT safety tested the same way Medicine is. There are NO PLACEBO Tests comparing Vaxxed to Unvaxxed like MUST be done for all other new medicine by LAW!;”

Really? from where are you taking your facts, you cannot just make up facts then use it as an argument.

If this is your tactic, we will never end as you can just manufacture facts as you see fit.