This is a subjectively based discussion, which means that some want to impose their beliefs on others which would result in others have to pay more in taxes, why is that acceptable?

I strongly believe that if this were a republican ideology, CTL would be against it.

The mods act as a machitza.

” I don’t see why there couldn’t be common sense measures to differentiate between business owners and those sitting on their money benefiting nobody.”

That would be equal to lets say you purchasing a car for your personal use despite not really depending on it, just for added freedom to actually use whenever and however you prefer.

So if lets say you dont really need it, or dont really use it that much, why not make it mandatory that other people should get to use it, what benefit is there to society if your car is just parked in your garage?

Even those that inherited their riches, there was someone that worked for it, that person took risks, exchanged goods or services for these monies and did so that their children and grandchildren should be well off.

Its not like these monies came out of nowhere. What right do we as a society have to obligate these people to pay a greater percentage, especially when they are already paying a greater share?

” Their inheritance and wealth should have been taxed at a rate that forced them to work. The fact that the system allows people to live off old money and never contribute anything proves that there’s a problem. ”

First off, these people are more likely to invest and create jobs and opportunities for the rest of us than anyone else only because they have the money.

Second, why not start by actually removing benefits from the poor so that they are forced to go out and work really hard to survive, this will not only stimulate the economy, it will reduce taxpayer cost, reduce crimes which will make our country a better place.

I am not advocating for this policy, I was just using your line of thinking and applying it elsewhere.

RY,

Those ultra rich people have taken risks that paid off so they can have financial freedom for themselves and their children.

Others shouldn’t get to decide how much money a person should be allowed to earn or how much someone should want.

Its the desire to earn money that drives economies.

Of course they should be taxed, who else the poor? They dont have money how can you tax someone that doesn have money??

The ultra rich? Take away all their money, they figured out how to make a furtune the first time around, im sure they’ll figure it out if they try again..

Frontiers in Human Neuroscience · February 2016
DOI: 10.3389/fnhum.2016.00025

“In Philadelphia, Lindquist, Plotkin, and peers estimated approximately 1–1.4% of all births had been affected by rubella during the 1960s outbreaks (Lindquist et al., 1965), the largest outbreaks in US history. In 1964–1965 alone, the US saw an estimated 12.5 million cases of rubella, resulting in 2000 cases of encephalitis (or 1 in 6250 cases), 11,250 abortions, 2100 cases of neonatal deaths, and 20,000 cases of CRS. Of the 20,000 cases of CRS: 11,000 (55%) were deaf, 3580 (17.9%) were blind, and 1800 (9%) were mentally retarded (Jacobson et al., 2009). During these largest outbreaks in US history, the association of rubella and autism became apparent, but only through massive numbers of known infected individuals. The strongest argument against a spurious association is the fact the children studied with CRS had prevalence rates of autism over 200 times that of the overall prevalence rate of autism at that time, the 1970s.”

This will be the last bump (for now), just in case Dooms, Truth, ProVaxx or any of the others that were trying to claim that this vaccination thing is a wild conspiracy, are still around.

Let us take a look at one more of these ‘benign’ vaccine-preventable diseases. Once again, it is the vaccines that afford us the luxury to make the claim that these diseases are benign, it is the vaccines that made us expect children to survive infancy.

From:
Management of
Chronic Infectious Diseases In School Children.
Illinois State Board of Education
(1987)

“Congenital rubella syndrome (CRS) is a severe disease caused by rubella virus infection usually contracted by a woman who is in her first trimester of pregnancy. Approximately 25 percent of such infections will result in disease in the developing fetus that is recognizable at birth. Of the remaining 75 percent who appear normal at birth, 55 percent may be found to be affected by age two. The incidence of fetal infection is much less when the infections occur later in pregnancy. Fetuses exposed after 16 weeks of gestation have a 10-20 percent risk of infection. Infections beyond the 20th week of gestation rarely result in defects. Affected children may have mental retardation, cataracts, glaucoma, heart defects, hearing defects, and bone defects. ”

“Rubella is a highly contagious viral infection which is spread through direct and indirect contact with an individual who has the disease or a CRS child who continues to shed the virus primarily during the first eighteen months of life.”

This is something that Dooms might find of interest, especially being a special ed therapist with a focus on autism.

The Neurology of Autism.
“After the last big epidemic in the United States in 1964, many cases of children with rubella autism were published. One rubella birth defect evaluation project in New York identified 10 children with autism and 8 more with limited autistic symptoms (Chess et al. 18971).”

Chess S. (1977) Follow-up Report on autism in congenital rubella.
Journal of Autism and Childhood Schizophrenia. PMID: 576606

“A longitudinal study was conducted of 243 children with congenital rubella. In this sample a high rate of autism and a high rate of recovery were observed. Examination of the data suggested that the rubella virus was the primary etiologic agent. It is hypothesized that the course of autism was that of a chronic infection in which recovery, chronicity, improvement, worsening, and delayed appearance of the autistic syndrome all were found. Other rubella consequences such as blindness, deafness, and cardiac and neuromuscular defects remained present except as modified by operations and prostheses.”

More from older medical textbooks.

DIPHTHERIA
by
William P. Northrup, M.D. (1902) P.122

“Many factors must be taken into consideration in order to foretell the outcome of this disease. No other infection is so uncertain as to its results as that under consideration, the most hopeless cases often making a complete recovery, and those which we have reason to regard as most benign not infrequently causing death.”

“This has an important bearing upon prognosis, as may be seen by the following table, compiled by Burrows from a series of 2093 cases occurring at the Boston City Hospital during 1900 and 1901.

In children under five years death occurred in 21.3%; in children of from five to ten years death occurred in 8.40%; in children of from ten to fifteen years death occurred in 3.10%.”

“The following table, from Biggs and Guerard (1896), of laryngeal cases of treated with anti-toxin will show the death-rate, etc.
Total cases treated: 15,148
Deaths: 2,626”

“The occurrence of diphtheria during an epidemic of measles at the New York Foundling Hospital in the past years added greatly to the mortality of the latter disease.”

While everything that happens has been preplanned and predetermined by Hashem, it doesnt seem like Hashem wants us to take action or inaction based on this concept.

We are still required to do the necessary hishtadlus that is deemed appropriate to reach the objective, thats how Hashem designed the universe.

“What We Don’t See”
Margaret Kendrick Hostetter, M.D. (NEJM)

“One has but to view the tombstones in colonial
cemeteries to understand that death in childhood
represented a grievous but seemingly inexorable
trajectory. The death toll from infection among
the very young was often obscured in colonial epidemics, when smallpox, diphtheria, cholera, dysentery, and measles typically killed without respect to age. In November 1713, for example, the
wife of the Puritan minister Cotton Mather died
in a measles epidemic, along with her newborn
twins, a 2-year-old daughter, and a servant. Two
sons and four daughters, all older than 7 years of
age, survived.13 Apart from these individual tragedies, however, there was little recognition of the
special susceptibility of children, particularly those
under 5 years of age, until the diphtheria epidemic in New England (1735 through 1740), in which
80% of its 5000 victims — almost 2.5% of the
population — were children.13
By the middle of the 19th century, a child’s
death, far from intolerable, was frequently viewed
as blessed,”

“In the mid-1950s, twice as many children died
from measles as from poliomyelitis,13 and the immunologic principles and clinical efficacy of the
attenuated measles virus vaccine in a variety of
childhood populations were thoroughly detailed
in a series of eight landmark articles, all published
in the July 28, 1960, issue of the Journal.
32-39 The
combined measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine,
developed by Maurice Hilleman in 1971, was a
boon for pediatrics and obstetrics alike”

Ye, at times it seems like the discussions dry up, but sometimes even a short hiatus means you missed a lot.

From the Department of Health, Commonwealth of Pensylvania (1953) -Bib_id 1540628

“Measles is a serious disease. When parents fully realize that it is the most contagious of all the diseases, that it frequently leads to permanent deafness or to defective eyesight that it causes more deaths than does scarlet fever they will be more willing to protect their children from it and more anxious to obtains a doctor’s services promptly”

“Measles is essentially a disease of early childhood, It is most serious at this period. Among the children of Pennsylvania contracting measles, 32% are under five years of age and 85% of the many deaths from this malady occur in this age period.”

” Children of the household who are known to have had measles may attend school if they obtain permits from the health officer to do so. Teachers must not accept any other certificate. The health officer, however, will not issue this permit unless the records show that the child at one time had been ill and quarantined for the disease. Children who have not had measles much remain out of school and at home under quarantine until released by the health officer. Adults are not included in the quarantine.”

Dooms,

You need to stop repeatedly misquoting studies to further your agenda. (the fact that you are quoting some person from a website or blog does not make this right).

This is from the chart of the study:
As you can see, the years are years of birth.

Year of Birth: 1988
Incidence of childhood autism per 10,000: 19.6
Rate of MMR vaccination: 69.8%

Year of Birth: 1989
Incidence of childhood autism per 10,000: 37.0
Rate of MMR vaccination: 42.9%

Year of Birth: 1990
Incidence of childhood autism per 10,000: 51.5
Rate of MMR vaccination: 33.6%

Year of Birth: 1991
Incidence of childhood autism per 10,000: 26.6
Rate of MMR vaccination: 24.0%

Year of Birth: 1992
Incidence of childhood autism per 10,000: 30.3
Rate of MMR vaccination: 1.8%

Year of Birth: 1993
Incidence of childhood autism per 10,000: 49.8

Year of Birth: 1994
Incidence of childhood autism per 10,000: 87.1

Year of Birth: 1995
Incidence of childhood autism per 10,000: 73.5

Year of Birth: 1996
Incidence of childhood autism per 10,000: 81.4

“According to Yokohama statistics, MMR vaccination
rates declined from 69.8% in the 1988 birth cohort,
to 42.9%, 33.6%, 24.0%, and a mere 1.8% in birth
cohorts 1989 to 1992”

If the MMR vaccine was a factor in causing autism, explain the rise in autism incidence while the MMR vaccine has been sharply reduced to almost zero yet in the meantime there was a rise in autism to the very same groups of children.

Btw, these numbers are childhood autism, if you look at the charge to other ASD and all ASD, the numbers are more or less the same.

Dooms,

“These diseases used to be listed in Medical Textbooks as BENIGN Childhood Diseases.”

Really? Do you have those textbooks? (or you are just quoting some website?)

I am sure that you will find just a fe quotes from the older textbooks of interest to you. For the record, measles is catagorized as a very serious disease in the older textbooks.

From the Critique 1905: (you can google the text and you will find this otherwise interesting older medical textbook).

“Measles is a dangerous disease-one of the most dangerous with which a child under five years of age can be attacked. It is especially apt to be fatal to teething children. It tends to kill by producing inflammation of the lungs. It prepares the way for consumption. It tends to maim by producing inflammations of the ears and eyes. Measles has carried off more than four times as many persons as enteric fever. It is therefore a great mistake to look upon measles as a trifling disease. Every child ill with measles ought at once to be put to bed and kept warm, for the mildest cases may be made serious by a chill. Measles is for this reason most dangerous in winter and spring. The older a child is, the less likely it is to catch measles, and if it does, the less likely it is to die. If every child could be protected from measles until It had passed its fifth year the mortality from this disease would be enormously decreased. It is therefore a great mistake – because as a rule children sooner or later have measles – to say, “The sooner the better,” and to take no measures to protect them, or even deliberately to expose them to infection.”

Thesis on Measles for the degree of doctor of medicine from the University of Edinburgh: 1908

“Measles is an acute, infectious, eruptive febrile
disease, which commences with marked catarrhal symptoms,
and later develops a characteristic rash of a maculopapular nature.
Its highly infectious character is particularly
noteworthy, as also its occurrence in childhood or near
the age of puberty. The eruption usually occurs about
the fourth day of the fever; and it can, in from thirty
to forty hours, be seen to have overspread. the entire
body of the patient – accompanying which phenomenon
will be observed catarrh of the air -passages and a
‘greater or less degree of pyrexia. Furthermore, there are
few individuals who escape the disease in early life,
though it is sometimes to be observed at a later period
– even in old -age .In the case of children especially,
it is apt to be a very dangerous disease – the more so
as mothers are apt to regard it as a malady from which
there can be no escape, and which, in view of its frequency, is comparatively harmless in its occurrence. ”

“The changes observed in the case of the lungs
appear to differ in no essential particulars from those
occurring in the course of other affections. Many of the
cases die from bronchopneumonia, which affection seems
to differ from that seen in other diseases in its
occasional greater tendency to suppuration; the outcome
of the malady is sometimes, too, a ford of caseous
pneumonia.Cornil and Babes (Quoted by Williams:- Trans.
‘fed.- Chir.Soc.,Vol.lxx.,p.77) insist upon the occurrence
of a peripneumonic or form of p4monary inflammation
peculiar to measles, and due to the direct action of the
specific poison; it is said to occur early in the so-called suffocative cases of the disease”

“The local action of the poison of measles sometimes results in disease of this organ: it usually takes
the form of a focal necrosis. Preeman (Med.Rec., 1898,
Vol.liv) observed this in about a third of all his
fatal cases of measles; and he reports that, as the
larger areas of necrosis are clearly distinguishable
by the naked eye,”

“The case’ of
measles without eruption reported by Rilliet (loc.cit . p.249) happened to be very severe, and occurred in a
child of twenty -one months of age infected from two
others in whom the disease had run a normal course.The
fever and concomitant catarrh were observed to be of the
ordinary kind; but, instead of the expected eruption
developing, double lobar pneumonia appeared on the
fourth day and spread very rapidly, the child dying on
the eighth day of the disease”

“According to the official returns,
in England and Wales from 1839- 1841, during the months
of January to march, there were 8106 fatal cases; from
April to June,8907; from July to September,6610; and from
October to December, there were 7213 deaths ”

“That certain forms of measles may take on a malignant tendency is the experience of almost everyone.
Edgar (lo c . cit .) ”

Dooms,

“Along also came FLUSH TOILETS, Running CLEAN Water, MORE FOOD and LESS OVERCROWDING.”

All of these existed for many years, yet there was a drastic increase in human life expectancy even after these have been common.

“RATE DOUBLED a year later in 1990”

Dooms,

They were following the cohorts, the numbers are for cohorts born in those years. You obviously have not read the entire study. The same cohorts that had a decline in the MMR had an increase in ASD.

From the CDC:

“Health, United States, 2017 ”

Life expectancy, in years
At birth:
76.8 (2000)
78.7 (2015)
78.6 (2016)

Infant deaths per 1,000 live births:
6.91 (2000)
5.9 (2015)
5.87 (2016)

Deaths per 100,000 population:
All causes:
869.0 (2000)
733.1 (2015)
728.8 (2016)

Heart disease:
257.6 (2000)
168.5 (2015)
165.5 (2016)

Cancer:
199.6 (2000)
158.5 (2015)
155.8 (2016)

Chronic lower respiratory diseases:
44.2 (2000)
41.6 (2015)
40.6 (2016)

Unintentional injuries:
34.9 (2000)
43.2 (2015)
47.4 (2016)

Stroke:
60.9 (2000)
37.6 (2015)
37.3 (2016)

Alzheimer’s disease:
18.1 (2000)
29.4 (2015)
30.3 (2016)

Diabetes:
25.0 (2000)
21.3 (2015)
21.0 (2016)

Influenza and pneumonia:
23.7 (2000)
15.2 (2015)
13.5 (2016)

Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis:
13.5 (2000)
13.4 (2015)
13.1 (2016)

Suicide:
10.4 (2000)
13.3 (2015)
13.5 (2016)

“2Cents, I have refuted the nonsense in the Autism Epidemic Denial.
So do you admit that Autism Epidemic IS REAL from 1:10,000 to 1:150?”

nope.

You still need to prove that:

a. the 30% is the same.
b. that the age diagnosis plays no role in diagnosing ASD. (including nonverbal).
c. that other mental disorders with language deficits were not affected by the DSM change.

Otherwise, your explanation and question can easily be satisfied.

I find it weird that when it comes to SIDS you yell fraud (in CAPS) only because there have been changes in classifying these infant deaths, despite having the data available and you can see a sharp total decrease not only in SIDS but also in all preventable deaths, Even when you use the current SIDS criteria you still have a very significant decrease, yet only because there was a change, that is sufficient for you to dismiss the claim that there is a decrease.

Why when there have been such radical changes to what is ASD, starting from age to just combining so many disorders which existed prior to the DSM IV yet were not considered autism, you just keep on using the latest DSM criteria to show that there has been an increase in prevalence, when it is likely that it is just an increase in diagnosis.

But then again, I accused you of confirmation bias, you conveniently only use parts of the data that supports your position.

If this is your position, fine. But you do not have a right to make your biased claims public and risk public health.

Truth:

“Life expectancy is currently on the decline…”

You would probably be interested in what the Kaiser Family Foundation has studied.

US life expectancy
1980: 73.7
2016: 78.6

In fact, most of the top ten causes of death are either steady or declining, the main increase is in unintentional deaths which usually are drug overdoses which have increased significantly.

Taken directly from the study:

No effect of MMR withdrawal on the incidence
of autism: a total population study

“The key findings are that the seven-year cumulative incidence of ASD rose progressively from 47.6
per 10,000 for children born in 1988 to 117.2 for
those born in 1996, that this rise continued in cohorts of children born after MMR was withdrawn,
and that no decline in ASD incidence occurred in
the five-year period from 1988 to 1992 during which MMR vaccine usage fell from 69.8% to zero
population coverage. If the vaccine had been
responsible for a rise in the incidence of ASD, there
ought to have been a fall in incidence following
withdrawal of the MMR vaccine, but this did not
occur. Necessarily, that finding runs counter to
expectations deriving from the causal hypothesis.
The continuing rise in the incidence of ASD after
withdrawal of the MMR vaccine seems to be incompatible with the causal hypothesis.”

“We found no
change in the incidence of ASD with regression between the periods before and after withdrawal of
MMR”

Truth, Who is ‘fardreing a kup’?

Truth:

“Why? Bec. the CDC puts them on quack watch lists, so that makes them more credible?”

Let go of your imagination for a moment, there is no CDC quack list, rather these people have alternative agendas, as has been discussed here.

Most of these people were considered quacks way before they entered the vaccine discussion.

In fact, for years Wakfeild was considered as a legitimate authority and his study was taken seriously until it was uncovered that he falsified data and had an agenda.

“I answered this but I’ll say it again: Autism is BOTH Genetic and Environmental – just like SMOKING.”

Your response is not sufficient, the percentage of sibling probability of being diagnosed with autism to extremely high to dismiss this as a genetic factor.

Including the study of many identical twins, which have an extremely high probability that if one has autism the twin will also have.

This shows that these children were born with autism.

Yet I do appreciate your efforts of trying to entertain us with these explanations, they just dont hold water.

Dooms:

“dditionally, the study had a CHART. In the Chart it shows that AFTER MMR was introduced in
1989 – Autism SPIKED in 1990!
When people stopped using MMR in 1991-1992: – the Autism Rate DROPPED.
When people started doing 3 Vaccines in 1993 – Autism Rate SPIKED – AGAIN!
The CHART – which is in the study – clearly shows that Vaccines cause Autism.
Yet the authors – who get $$$ from Vaccine Industry – wrote the OPPOSITE!”

Actually what you wrote is inaccurate.

Rates increased as the MMR has decreased, even after 1993 when there was an increase, even some of the future cohorts (post-1993) had decreases in ASD rates, this clearly demonstrates that:

a. Withholding MMR vaccines has no effect on autism.
b. You are dishonest and cherry-pick only the data that supports your position.

“in the Body of the Study (that few people read) it states that MMR was replaced with 3 Shots – but
in the paragraph called “results” that fact was NOT mentioned – which is Most Important!!!”

Astonishing to think that something that was published for all to see, yet your claim is that no one realized this.

This study was presented to study if there is a change to ASD when MMR is withdrawn, the triple jab, which Wakefield (who is the father to the MMR/autism conspiracy claim and currently one of the anti-vaccine movements leaders) made the claim that the triple jab is the safe alternative to the MMR vaccine, was all part of the study.

There is no fraud when accounting and detailing that at one point (1993) was the triple jab introduced, in fact the focus of the study was not to compare zero vaccination to the MMR, this just so happened to be that from 88′-92′ there was a sharp decline of the MMR vaccine with no replacement, so this would be able to satisfy people like yourself who made the unsubstantiated claim that even the triple jab is a cause to autism.

However, you would have to do better than this to claim that there is fraud.