Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Gavra at work,
Thanks!!
MYSHADOW,
Unless you keep your kid away from ANY contact with ANY modern day books, people and internet (wich is just not realistic and will definitly harm him later on life) by way of banning no, it simply wont be (and isn’t) effective.
The Big One,
you said “You are changing the facts (again.)”
If it makes you feel good to say i changed the facts here (wich i didnt do) because you cannot think up any good arguments against what i say but you cannot accept that just maybe you are wrong, thats fine beleive it and feel good- we could all pretend you got me!
However were ELSE have i “changed facts.”
The Big One,
R.O.B was clearly advocating the more leineint view.
I said i think the more leinient view is probably correct as it makes perfect sense and non one has posted a single mekor or svara that argues with it so i asked him for a mekor.
were have i changed facts?
nit picking on my words when you are unable to win a single argument with me, just makes you look stupid and immature.
Joseph,
What on earth are you talking about?
i did not say i hold either way is true for sure and then try to find a mekor.
All i said was that R.O.B.’s thing made sense and that i think he is probably right so i asked him if he could post a mekor,
and even if he dosnt if no one posts a mekor (or svara) that argues with him since what he is saying makes sense i dont see any reason to think that he is wrong.
If you have either a mekor or a svara saying he is wrong please post it
R.o.b.,
Also could you post a mekor who holds of the more lenient view?
Thank You!
rob,
I think your right, what your saying makes sense.
brooklyn19,
You may be right about it not applying anymore, but i have the same question you do (about people not percieving yiddishkeit for what it really is or for being exposed to it in the wrong way.)
Notpashut,
There is a concept of tinok shenishba by somone who was brought up not frum and was never really shown what yiddishkeit is all about (wich is alot more then just SEEING frum jews).
NOTPASHUT,
There is a big diffrence between a doctor and a rov: we call a doctor a good doctor when we see that what he does works, we know that smoking kills because we have the satistics to prove it.
We have no way of knowing who has a chelek in olam haba and you have no way of knowing if one rabbi knows more then another unless you can somehow faher them and know wich one knowes more wich you cannot do.
If you wish to play the numbers game there are alot more M.O. rabbis and rabbis of other affiliations then there are black hat rabbis.
i never said i think its o.k. to have a t.V. i just dont beleive that having one would make somone lose there chelek in olam haba and i dont claim to know for a fact either way.
Joseph, Ujm, The Big One,
Since when does questioning a statement of R’ avigdor miller make somone lose there chelek in olam haboh?
Why do you have a right to belittle any statement by any M.O. Rabbi Or rabbi who’s hashkafos are to liberal for you but no one can question a radical statement that no one can bring a mekor for made by one of the rabbis you go by?
Will Hill,
Did you not understand what i wrote?
I dont Think any of those mekoros prove anything other then a woman must dress in a way that is considerd refined for the time and place were she lives (as long as all areas that are ervah are coverd.)
13ikrim,
How do you know That the rabbis who hold of these chumras are the only true “Gadolei yisroel”?
Feivel,
but wich one (or more) of the issurim that watching T.V. transgresses causes you to lose your chelek in olam haboh?
i think being addicted to hard drugs does not happen by accident because of experimenting, it is usally a sign of some sort of abuse. we should try to take care of the problems of abuse that we have in our community and then hopefully the drug problem will lessned or go away
Will Hill,
were in the letter do they say that if you have one you lose your chelek in olam haba?
The big One or Will Hill,
Wich one of the issurim causes you to lose your chelek in olam haba please post it with a mekor.
The Big One,
I posted clearly why i hold as i do (that as long as in the society you are in the article is considerd refined if it dosnt uncover an ervah it should be muttar for example opend toed shoes or sandals without socks or any other style for that matter) and why i dont see anything in any of the mekoros that contradicts it.
so far I think no one has posted a single proof that proves me wrong if I am mistaken please show me the post that proves me wrong or post somthing that proves me wrong.
(please dont post the chazon ish about the lower legs being considerd ervah just like above the knee is as most frum people i know dont pasken like him in most other things such as shaving wich he holds is assur and sukkah wich he holds must be built a certain way and i dont see why we should go like him by this anymore then we go by him on other things)
I dont think that people generaly get addicted to hard drugs just by accident from experimenting, I think that most times there is some underlying issue such as abuse (as this is the case by all the people I know who are addicted to drugs wich is only a few but still its ALL of them.) There are certain types of abuse that are rampant in our community that people just brush under the carpet for fear of making a chilul hashem, i think if these would be properly addressed it would help the drug problem a great deal.
Could somone post wich particular issur (im) your oiver by watching T.V. that causes you to lose your chelek in olam haba (as opposed to wich ones your oiver stam) along with a mekor that being oiver this issur causes you to lose your chelek in olam haba?
Brooklyn 19,
I saw the radak, i dont see anything that indicates that she felt the bizayon was due to anything other then the fact that at that time it was unfitting for a king to dance that way as it mentions that shual also never uncoverd his arms,
nowadays there are pictures of plenty of big gedolim (ive seen ones with r’moshe and r’yaakov) with there sleeves rolled up.
On what is considerd to loud being subjective to the society you are in: R’ Pesach E. Falk (who is quite the machmir!) in his book “Modesty an adornment for life” writes (pg. 395) that if a woman is in the orient were it is considerd the norm to wear bright diffrent colors and louder jewelry it is okay for a frum woman to do so.
Brooklyn 19,
I alawys understood that story (with dovid) as follows:
If the color purple would have been unbecoming of a king she would have rebuked him for that, the thing she was rebuking him for was not his leg showing per se but rather that she felt the way he was dancing was unbecoming of a king.
i may have been wrong although i think my way makes more sense
if you have a proof that she was rebuking him because of the leg per se (and not because showing the leg was unbecoming of a king at that time) please post it
Notposhut,
It is what i meant, and yup its possible.
Notpashut,
Actualy when i have brought the names of rabbonim who support positions that i have taken on certain subjects he has called them just “run of the mill rabbis” that have nothing on his rabbis.
I have never said ANYTHING even remotley derogatory about any rabbi he goes by, i have just said that not evreybody must go like them and that they have the right to pick wich rabbi (Modern Orthodox or otherwise) they wish to go by.
Child molestation and drugs are rampant in the frum community and these problems are swept under the carpet for fear of looking bad.
i know a few substance abusers in our community and all of them were also abused and having nowere to turn because either because they think no one would beleive them (people will say “what that guy is an erliche yid he would never do somthing like that”) or they are just told to be quite and they watch the person walk around and be treated as a good jew they get severly dissilusioned with life and turned to drugs for comfort.
notpashut,
I am not saying to say that you think evreything is wonderfull obviosly you can tell your kids your opinion on things
just be carefull not to bring proofs that simply arnt good (like much of the “scientific” proofs to the torah)
or say things that arnt true (such as this is the only way to really be happy in olam haza Ect.)
as this can severly diminish your credibility and leave your kid very very dissillusioned.
Not Pashut,
No i dont beleive he would, i think he would say that all the rabbonim who say you should get one are modern and have messed up hashkafos and he would find one who says its ossur and hold like him.
jOSEPH,
But you obviosly hold that tv is not assur as you agreed with feivel in the “jews owning dogs” thred that watching tv all day and owning a dog are comparable
Feivel,
Are you saying that you think that watching tv all day and listening to goyishe music does not involve transgressing any issurim? (cuz you admitted that having a dog dosnt.)
Joseph,
What is considerd refined and respectable and ostentatious is completley subjective if a woman wore today what a woman who stood at har sinai or lived in europe 800 years ago wore it wouldnt be considerd refined or repectable looking
myshadow,
but saying that there arnt or that any other one isnt good IS lying.
myshadow,
you are correct as long as you do not say there is no other side if there is one,as this is lying and if you expect your kids to trust you and beleve what you say it defenitly helps not to lie to them.
No, i do not think chumros make kids go off the derech in of themselves,
however looking down on anybody who dosnt keep your chumros,
or saying that your chumros are halacha when really it is very reasonable to say that they arnt,
or not honestly showing all the sides of an issue and only showing the things that back your position
can lead to a kid being severly disillusioned and possibley going off the derech.
JOSEPH,
Another thing i find funny is that generaly the same people who hold that by an issur it is not possible that it was written because of the times, and that to say such a thing is bordering on heresy (even when the reason given is clearly not true anymore as by girls learning!) have no problem saying that a heter was only written for a certain cicumstance or time
Joseph,
You are unbeleivable! on one hand you insist that we must be completley mevatel daas to whatever a gadol says even if it was said about a situation that does not exsist anymore (by girls learning.) or if the metzius is they are wrong about somthing (by science-if i understood you there you actualy beleive the sun goes around the earth!) but you have no problem saying somthing is wrong based on nothing other then your feelings.
Brooklyn 19,
COOL!! 🙂
illni07,
You would also have to NEVER leave the key anywere your kid could get to it (even for a few minutes and even when you are sleeping or out of the house) if you keep it locked up at all times, & if you take it somwere for whatever reason you can never leave your pocketbook out of your sight for even a moment… and these are not even creative ways of getting hold of it!!
bkitzur its nearly impossable to make sure your kids will never get access to it
illni07,
Brooklyn 19 is right in that you’r kids can find out your social security number if they want to, unless you keep the card locked up in a safe and never in your wallet or pocketbook and never say it, and even so there are probably ways i cant think of right now to find it out.
Jphone,
you would be shocked at the type of things kids will do especialy if under peer pressure for whatever reason.
The only thing is that even easier then all that (probably) is for a teen to just walk into a store and get a pre paid phone themselves and not tell there parents anything about it! so it is probably better just to get one for your kid and at least have some control over it unless you are really sure he wont get one himself.
Brooklyn 19,
If the gemara says its deoreisa (as it does by showing ervah) it is deoraisa if it says somthing is derobonon then it is derobonon.
As for articles of clothing I beleive a couple may be mentioned however they are no longer worn (as style has changed considerably since then!)
However most articles of clothing depend on what is considerd normal in the society you are in (if somthing is considerd trashy or loud by the society you live in you shouldnt wear it if it is not you can wear it- as long as it is not revealing an ervah)
and this was my entire point.
as to what you were saying about listening to gedolim i discussed this in my post on page 6 of this thread.
brooklyn 19,
my last post was reffering to your post 2 posts ago!
BROOKLYN 19,
The answer to your question actualy is YES it does say in the Gemara wich parts of the body are considerd ervah
The gemara is torah shebal peh that was passed down to us from person to person directly from har sinai.
to compare the words of those gemaras wich are explaining what is meant by a possuk as was passed down directly person to person from har sinai to a nowadays godol’s opinion of what is to “flashy” or “loud” when even the godol is not claiming to have heard this directly from somone who heard it at har sinai (as the gemara did) is just wrong and missing the entire point.
dveykus,
you said “this is decide as per derech hatorah by our rabbonim, not our immoral surroundings!”
Then why would we assir somthing just because it is considerd to show hefkeirus or be loud & attention grabbing in the society we are in?
Dveykus,
With all due respect what you are saying just isnt true, there are plenty of cases were gedolim of diffrent generations argue on eachother without depending on someone else.
Joseph,
very mature answer
I guess you dont, do us all a favor and grow up
Joseph,
since you are so sure that am wrong please either refer me to the post were you prove that i am wrong or post a reason why my post is not correct (because my rebbi says so is not a reason.)
dveykus,
what you are saying is simply not true as there are plenty of cases were rishonim achronim & gedolim argue on people that were niftar hundreds of years before them.
as for somthing not befitting a bas melech that is subjective to the society you are in as i said in an earlier post
dveykus,
Again, if somthing was considerd in (goyishe) society were you live to show hefkeirus i think any rov would agree you cant wear that piece of clothing
If we dont get our standards from goyishe society then why just because somthing is considerd hefker or pritzusdick in the general (goyishe) society should we be not allowed to wear it?
if we do get our standards (as long as you are not showing an ervah obviosly) from goyishe society then if somthing that is not revealing an ervah and is not considerd pritzusdick by goyishe society you fnd yourself in such as not wearing stockings why should it be ossur now?
Squeak & jphone,
They dont need it
however this is not the point as if they want it chances are if they are the type to do things with it behind your back they will get it without you as there are pre paid phones available at just about any electronic store for very cheap.
you might as well get it for them if you can afford it and at least have some knowledge as to what they are doing by looking at the bill ect.
Dveykus,
Sure! it was,
I think any rov would tell you that even though a rov said that somthing is not prust if you find yourself in a place were that item is considerd by the general (goyishe) society in that place to show hefkeirus it would be ossur to wear.
so you see that what is considerd prust does depend on the general society you are in (as long as you are not showing an ervah)
so why should it be any diffrent if a rov asssired somthing because at the time or society were he was it was considerd prust or loud (wich is probably the only reason you would assir somthing that is not showing an ervah)
if it is no longer considerd by society to show hefkeirus and be prust wich is the only reason it was ossur in the first place it should now be muttar.
If you have an explanation why we should assir things because of trends in goyishe society and not be mattir for the same reason (as long as you are not showing an ervah) please post it.
and this is all besides the point that many rabbis are motter not wearing stockings