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many take their kids to zoos on chol hamoed.
zoos often sell animal food to feed to animals.
this food may be chomets.
many people dont seem to realize this.
you are not allowed to purchase chometz
even to feed to animals.
Nitpicker i raised this very same question on the what to do on chol hamoed thread just 2 days ago.
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/ideas-for-chol-hamoed-pesach-5772-2012
I would have thought that to be obvious.
The Wolf
I would have thought that to be obvious.
The Wolf
For a tzadik and talmid chochom like yourself, many things that us pashute yidden still need reminders and pointing out, is obvious. Many of us hope to one day reach your level of clear thinking and constant concern for halachic compliance.
Obvious to those that realize it, not to those to whom it has not occurred yet. And even during the year make sure the feed does not contain meat and milk
It’s not so obvious for some people. One year I took my kids to a small zoo set up for chol hamoed in our town, and I saw frum men and women buying the food to feed the animals. The food was for sure chometz gamur and I told the people but they ignored me. My husband (abbaofthree) told our Rov about this and he said that it is ossur to buy chometz and feed it to animals. He was pretty horrified that they bought chometz, thus OWNING it.
For a tzadik and talmid chochom like yourself
I never claimed to be a tzaddik or a talmid chacham. On the contrary, I have often claimed to be the very opposite of those things.
The Wolf
I already encountered this issue years ago, when some Chassidic guy in full garb, asked me for change to buy food to feed the goats in Central Park Zoo.
I am there in this bright suit & colored shirt, telling him:- Do you realize that this is Chometz Gomur? (& I figured this out myself without the assistance of a rabbi). He was shocked & didn’t want to belief me, but eventually succumbed, and altered his plans he had been planning on, to feed the goats.
That’s what you get for not keeping your mouth shut during laining.
I never claimed to be a tzaddik or a talmid chacham. On the contrary, I have often claimed to be the very opposite of those things.
Of course, of course. From a massive anav such as yourself I would expect no less. Virtually all our tzadikim never acknowledged it. And very many of the greatest of the greats actively denied it or even admitted to being something else. (There is even, at least, one famous story of that effect.)
Mods: Can you please change Reb Wolf’s subtitle to “Lamed Vov & Humongous Anav”, please?
The Goq- and I beleive I answered your question (hopefully correctly ;)).
Yes u did answer moishy thank you.
I go every year to the zoo and I have never seen any yidden buying food for the animals. Interesting! I wonder how many CR people will bump into each other next week at the zoo:)
Morahrach, you obviously never go then because I see way to many yidden buying treife animal food. It’s horrible! What are frum yidden doing at the zoo anyways? Too much pritzus and shtus going on. The men should be home learning and the women should be cooking and taking care of the children.
I see way to many yidden buying treife animal food. It’s horrible!
Why? Assuming it’s not Pesach and the kids aren’t eating the animal food (but rather, giving it to the animals) why is it horrible?
The Wolf
Of course, of course. From a massive anav such as yourself I would expect no less. Virtually all our tzadikim never acknowledged it. And very many of the greatest of the greats actively denied it or even admitted to being something else. (There is even, at least, one famous story of that effect.)
An anav does not harp about his sins as I do. An anav simply doesn’t proclaim his greatness.
Mods: Can you please change Reb Wolf’s subtitle to “Lamed Vov & Humongous Anav”, please?
Please don’t.
The Wolf
Shtick: What’s the problem during the year with Basar B’chalav feed? There is no Issur of owning Basar Bechalav and I don’t think that feeding the zoo’s animals with food that you specifically bought from the zoo to give these animals is called Hana’ah. Especially since it’s already a Machlokes whether to be Machmir on N’veilah B’chalav, I don’t think that would be a problem at all.
Aha! How interesting. No matter what people throw at Wolf, he seems to thrive on it. At last we’ve found a way to unsettle him.
Wolf- did you read my post or quickly jump to argue? I obviously meant on pesach
Sam2 – feeding a hefker animal basar b’chalav is a shailah, actually they make tzushtel from Pesach
What are frum yidden doing at the zoo anyways? Too much pritzus and shtus going on.
lolololol what a comedian.
Wolf- did you read my post or quickly jump to argue? I obviously meant on pesach
Not so obvious.
Your complaint was about tarfus, not chometz.
Furthermore, if you can be sure that the feed has no chometz, then there is still no problem buying it and giving it to animals, even if it is 100% traife gamur.
That being said, it wasn’t obvious at all that your post was referring to chometz and Pesach.
The Wolf
In my humble opinion buying animal feed in Pesach is worse then chametz from before Pesach. The one before Pesach was already ‘batel’ with ‘kol chamira’, whereas buying chametz is definitely NOT batel. Furthermore, to my limited knowledge, one cannot be mevatel his newly acquired chametz in pesach, so he’s stuck with the aveira.
Logician: It’s a Machlokes by Issurei Hana’ah that comes from the Gemara about giving a dog N’veilah. But this is probably better because it’s not really your Issurei Hana’ah that you’re giving to a B’ehimah Shel Hefker. The reason for not feeding the B’heimah Shel Hefker Issurei Hana’ah is that the animal will like you. That’s just not true in a petting zoo. The animal won’t recognize you more than the tens of thousands of others who feed it. Also, I did combine the fact that there’s also a Machlokes by whether N’veilah B’chalav is Assur B’hana’ah.
Animals that are carnevours are usually wilder animals. Dogs and Cats are domesticated versions of their wilder counterparts like Tigers or Wolves.
Animals that are in a petting zoo are of the tame variety and those animals are herbavous and calm. Animals that eat meat have to be wild otherwise they cannot catch they prey in the wild.
In Other words , You are unlikely to be feeding Nveliah to any animal in a petting zoo
wolf- I was describing what the food is, that it’s treif. My comment came after someone who posted that they go on pesach every year and they never see frum yidden buying animal food. So it was obvious I was talking about pesach.
I went to the bronx zoo today with all the kids. While the veiber got stuff ready for pesach.
We saw one other frum guy there with his kid.
Popa- for all we know you could live in New Zealand. Please stop commenting, you’re a pathelogical lier.
I saw the title and thought this was a thread about my house.
nitpicker, why in the world would you have to ask your rav? If it’s chametz, it’s assur.
syag- lol!
Zoos are a definite shailoh if you own the zoo. Of course, most carnivores do not eat hametz, though they do eat animals that had eaten hametz. And while Lions and Tigers never eat hametz or kitniot, Bears are know to eat anything and anyone they can.
ONE MORE THING: Even if you’re SO smart and you know- I mean, like, DUH- that the animal food is chametz, that does NOT mean that the animals would like a nice heimishe snack of shmurah matzah. It’s astonishing how many times I’ve seen that, and it’s really bad for the animals (I mean, let’s face it, it’s not exactly kind to us…).
The problem is that the animal food is probably hametz and/or contains basar v’ chalav.
Ask the zoo officials if you are allowed to bring your own animal food.
From what i understand, the zoos feed their prisoners on a regular basis. you not purchasing food for the duration of seven days will in no way affect the animals health. ignoring the fact that many people will still be wasting otherwise useful money on unnecessary fodder.
You could try feeding the ducks moldy matzoh, but only if you Gebrok.
“you are not allowed to purchase chometz even to feed to animals”
The animals in the Zoos in the US are not owned by Jews. Not an issue.
The Bronx Zoo has a petting Zoo with domestic animals, in which kids can buy animal feed to feed the animals. That would be the only problem, so if the Zoo can’t tell you for sure that there is no chametz in that feed, don’t buy it!
“The animals in the Zoos in the US are not owned by Jews. Not an issue.”
?
But you are allowed to go into a Mikva on Shabbos?
There are no “prisoners” in a zoo. Zoo animals have done no crime and are not being punished for one either. The sheep and goats are there as community pets, and people feed them for the experience.
You may not get hanaah (derive any benefit)from your chometz on Pesach and that includes feeding it to animals.
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