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So I was wondering about this whole situation. How can a younger sibling ask an older one if they can get engaged/married without feeling somewhat embarrassed? Also wouldnt it be hard for the older sibling to accept? Does anyone else wonder about this?
maybe it’s harder if they’re of the same gender.
my younger daughter got married before her brother; he definitely had no problem with it. B’H, he got married 5 months later, tho’.
I’ve seen it happen and never heard any older sibling standing in the way or making the younger sib feel badly.
I have a friend who is almost 30. He has an older sister who is single. He won’t date until she’s engaged. His parents have begged him, his sister has told him that she doesn’t care and he should date, but he refuses to date. He won’t tell his family that’s the reason, but a few of his close friends know it.
1- The younger does not have to ask. The parents could have a discussion.
2- Maybe the older should think about Emunah. Each will get his or hers in the time ordained by Hashem. Giving or witholding permission may be getting involved in an area and in a way we should not be involved. Maybe we need to leave it up to Hashem who will /will not and when.
3- Maybe in shamayim there is a some negative issues which is preventing the older from getting the shidduch he or she is waiting for and “not being makpid”. no……. more than that, GIVING permission willingly and happily may be the chessed and zechus which breaks the “hold” in shamayim and will be the cause/effect for the older to find his-her shidduch.
Hatzlacha to all…….. younger, older and all in between…. in whatever order Hashem chooses!
This should be a last resort. Some rabbonim are very much against it barring strong extenuating circumstances. That being said, if it is necessary, he/she should ask permission/mechilla. Perhaps their ought to be a certain amount of reluctance/embarrassment involved.
I have a friend who is almost 30. He has an older sister who is single. He won’t date until she’s engaged. His parents have begged him, his sister has told him that she doesn’t care and he should date, but he refuses to date. He won’t tell his family that’s the reason, but a few of his close friends know it.
I don’t believe that.
RABBAIM: The younger does not have to ask.
There sorces who say otherwise. I’ll try to post them tonight or tomorrow
also, my daughter-in-law is one of 9 children, ka’h… she’s in the middle: 2 older brothers & 2 older sisters had only happiness for her getting married first in the family. now, 9 months later, her oldest brother just got engaged, B’H!
I believe each in his/her own time with the right one, iy’H.
I’ve told my siblings to get married at the right time for them. I have a few younger then me. I believe Hashem has a person and time and every person is unique but we have to do hishtadlus and cannot risk hurting others.
My older brother gave permission to the brother in between me and him. At first when I asked what would happen if something came up for me he said no/we will see when the time comes. When the first shadchan called, I spoke with him and we discussed it coming to the conclusion that if the powers that be (rabeim, parents, etc) feel that I could/should be getting married then he is not going to stop me and on the contrary he encouraged me.
Do I have reluctance? Yes. Would I be much happier if he were to get engaged/married before me? Yes.
But if the time is here and he is not only giving permission but encouraging me, then I am not going to not go out/get engaged/get married.
😀 Zuberman! 😀
I know a set of twins, where the younger is not being allowed to date until the older one is married.
The parents told her they will not make the wedding if she gets married before the older one.
What do you think of that?
It often depends on how much older we are talking. My husband got married before his older brother but they are only 15 months apart, so my brother-in-law didn’t care one whit and had even expected that it would happen that way. He was no old bachelor when we got married, did not have that much more shidduch experience than my husband had, and he ended up getting married about a year later anyway. If the siblings are, say, 5 years apart, then I could see how it might be harder for the older one and more sensitivity would be required.
You should definitely ask daas torah about this before doing it. I know a family that did it and it was good because the older sibling still isn’t married and had they waited… but you should really ask a rav.
Popa- Feif’s friend is Eliezer ben Hork…
mischiefmaker; That is precisely the situation where (with the permission of the older sibling) it’s ideal to skip. I have personal knowledge of a family where the older (Female) sibling let one brother and Two sisters go ahead of her because (Ostensibly) she couldn’t make up her mind what she wanted. Non-Chassidic but Frum (Extremely so). Tall, Handsome, a Talmid Chacham and from a rich family. She finally B”H (Hopefully) found the ideal Chosson and got married…Whew! Let’s hope and pray that the marriage will last…And last. She shouldn’t ?”? be among the (?????? ???? ??????? ???? (????? ????. Married late and divorced early. And another case that I know of in my extended family where the young (Or, Middle aged) lady is the only one at the class reunion who doesn’t wear a Shaitel. And her classmates are sending out Bar Mitzvah invitations.
Feif Un! Please tell your friend to go out…Think of his poor beshert waiting all those years. If not for himself, then for a another person. (If indeed this is not Rav Eliezer ben Herkonys you’re talking abt)
feif on – i don’t believe that is only reason guy isn’t going out – though he may use it as his excuse.
the whole issue should be handled in a mentchleichtic (spelling?) way. meaning: younger sibling (and/or) parents should get permission from older sibling before going out. (older sibling should grant permission unless younger really is so young and no necessary reason for sibling to go out then, but wouldn’t harm anyone if waited a year). then when getting close to getting engaged, younger sibling should again ask older sibling permission. (obviously, older sibling will say yes – it’s just to show that i’m giving you respect and is that all right with you). by doing these 2 things, will prevent much heartache between siblings. both know that acted with other one with respect, and whatever else happens is from Hashem. when not done properly, it breeds resentment and estrangement, and neither party is happy for the younger sibling’s simcha.
I know a story where the sister was one year younger than the brother; he was 24, she was 23.
She asked if she could date, and he said yes.
So she dated several times and then was ready to get engaged.
She asked if she could get engaged, and he said no.
His excuse was that he didn’t like the guy she was dating and thought it wasn’t a good idea.
Now, he is married with several children, while she is still single.
popa – is that really true?!? that doesn’t make sense at all. i can’t imagine the parents, girl, or chassan of the girl would go along with that. if your point is, then why ask permission to get engaged even after getting permission to go out, it’s just nice – it’s just another way of showing care and respect to older sibling.
It is not true.
And there was no point.
okay. thanks for clarifying. 🙂
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