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what is the pronunciation of the next word of yosheiv beseser elyon.
trust me i’ve heard many girsas.
and if you figure that one out try tehillim kapitel kuf yud tes and try (the word is in many places but it’s also) under mem “micol melamday hiscalti ki ____ what? sicho li
midever havos/havois.ki aydvosecha/aydvoisecha.
I trust my Artscroll Tehilim,sir.But Hashem hears us all.And tefilin is not my department…
Lets instead bicker about if it is havuvos or havuvoys.
it wouldn’t be spelled the way it is then
Someone who deliberately is mispronouncing a cholum as a choylum should be complaining about someone else’s pronunciations.
1)According to my Leiter’s tanach (Berlin) it’s HAV’os. There is a messeg under the first vav. My guess is that it should sound something like two vavs with the first being a shva nach.
2)eidvosecha
3)l’yachada shem yud key b’vav-key
The hey in havos has a nekudah (patach) the first vov has a dagesh (you never pronounce a shuruk as vu- just u, and also it can’t be a shuruk, because the hey has a nekudah already, and therefore it must be a vov) then comes a choilom and a sof
Blueprints,
Haoovoys makes more sense.
In Karbonos do you say “Tanya Bar Kapara” or “Tanya Bar Kafra”?
I do what it says in the Birnbaum siddur, which is very meduyak.
1-That’s right, it’s mileil on the syllable hav. The vav must be a vav not a melupam/shuruk because the hey already has a nekuda.
2-No, and the English translation is stilted and frankly not that great, but the Hebrew side is very meduyak in girsa, based mostly on R’ Yaakov Emden. And that was a misleading typo, it should have said “I’ll” say rather than “I” say as in I should say. To be honest, I don’t watch the dikduk much while I’m saying korbanos and just say “bar kapara” like we do in learning. Sorry.
3-Once again, you’re right. it’s yacheyd. Yachada is Chabad-ari.
4-Of course it’s muttar to say havaya, but I don’t think that’s what the nussach says. All l’shem yichuds are based on the Ari. The basic idea (very basic) is that mitzvos “reunite” the two halves of Hashem’s name — the yud-hey and the vav-hey in a “yichuda shlim” — complete unification and we are declaring our intent to make the combination through the mitzva we are about to do.
I think you have teh rule with the vav wrong. It’s voo when the first vav has no vowel and the second has a shuruk. We both agree it’s mileil, right? I transliterated it HAV’vos because when writing words phonetically in English, the accented syllable is in caps.
The hebrew side just has the words with nikkud, but it is very carefully edited with attention usually reserved for tikkunei korim.
The stress is part of the pronunciation. The first dagesh vav that comes to mind is the word ??????? in the parsha of Asham Metzora. Ask Wolf or another baal kria. I am one, but not very experienced.
Its definitely havois. When theres a nekuda next to the vov with a dagesh in, then its pronounced as a vov. It has a dagesh in the vov because its after a hey with a patach under it.
Blueprints – if a vov with a dagesh is always voo then how do you read what we read as Shivisi which has a dagesh in the vov? Or yivoshu? Etc etc
Yivoshu is spelled ?????
I was refering to ??????. (And ???????)
Blueprints.. Who said tachers are infallable?
Didn’t we all have teachers that made mistakes!?
It is clearly Havois!
not I: Now to turn it around, why? You have to be able to back it up.
Shticky: Oh! yivash’u — “they will be saved” not yevosh’u — “they will be ashemed.” gotcha. Though it still is ????? at least in my tehillim.
I just taught this to my students today!
The rule is that a vuv with a dot on top can either be a cholom malei (“oh” sound nekuda for the previous letter), or it can be a vuv with a cholom chaser (“voh” sound). But a vuv with a dot in the middle is a shoorook (“ooh” sound), but it will NEVER make a “vooh” sound. It is just a vuv with a dagesh inside. So the word says “havos,” and the first vuv is a vuv with a dagesh, and the second vuv is its nekuda – a cholom malei.
This information was taken from a fantastic workbook called “Zoom into Proper Kriya” which they use in many first grade classes.
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