Yoav's Misreading

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  • March 1, 2015 5:37 pm at 5:37 pm #615021
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    The Sefer Hachinuch in Mitzvah 604 writes:

    ???? ?????? ???? ?? ????

    ???????? ????? ???? ?? ???? ????? ???? ?? ????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ??? ?? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???? ????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ??? ????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ?? ????? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??? ?? ?????

    Based on the context, “?????? ??? ??????” is referring to the Amalekite females. However, in the Gemara in Bava Basa (21a-b) where the incident with Yoav is discussed, it is talking about Edomite females not Amalekite females.

    The Gra in Kol Eliyahu on Parshas Beshalach also assumes that it was the Amalekite females that Yoav failed to kill.

    http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=34797&st=&pgnum=27

    Granted, the Gemara says that Yoav’s reasoning for not killing the females was based on the pasuk of “???? ?? ??? ????”, but the Maharsha explains that Yoav was making a kal vachomer from Amalek to Edom.

    So whence did the Sefer Hachinuch and the Gra get the idea that Yoav failed to kill Amalekite females?

    March 1, 2015 9:25 pm at 9:25 pm #1062540
    TheGoq
    Participant

    Wow I had no idea I was so erudite!

    -The Goq

    March 2, 2015 5:30 am at 5:30 am #1062541
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    So I think I found a source that it was in fact Amalekite females that Yoav spared. The Yalkut Hamechiri on Psalms 18:61 brings a midrash about Yoav singlehandedly killing thousands of Amalekites. After describing the bloodshed it says:

    ??? ??? ????? ?? ???? ???? ?? ??????? ??????? ??? ????? ????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???? ????? ?”? ?? ????? ??? ???? ??? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ????

    http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=32636&st=&pgnum=132

    But there are several problems with this:

    1) The Yalkut Hamechiri is not an original work. It is a collection on midrashim. So what is the original source of this midrash? The Yalkut Hamechiri introduces it as …???? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???

    The problem, as eloquently expressed by Solomon Buber in the footnote, is: ???? ???? ?? ???? ?? ?????

    2) In this midrash Dovid asks Yoav if he fulfilled the Torah’s command of ???? ?? ??? ???? and Yoav responds that he did – he only spared the king, the children, and the women. And Dovid does not object to this.

    3) The Gemara in Bava Basra, and for that matter the pesukim in Melachim, are pretty clear that the war under discussion was with Edom.

    Perhaps it is theoretically possible that there were two different wars and both times Yoav spared the females and Dovid only objected the second time. However, (besides for the fact that this seems extremely unlikely,) if the Gemara was in fact talking about Edom and the midrash was talking about Amalek then the Sefer Hachinuch should have cited the midrash, not the Gemara.

    So I think it’s still a ?”?.

    March 2, 2015 5:53 pm at 5:53 pm #1062542
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Typo:

    “It is a collection on midrashim” should be “It is a collection of midrashim”

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