Home › Forums › Bais Medrash › Daf Yomi › Sukkah › Yidl mitn ridl (Hilchos tzitzis)
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March 13, 2015 8:42 pm at 8:42 pm #615156☢️ Rand0m3x 🎲Participant
How is it possible for a man to take a pair of kosher tzitzis that are of proper size for him, remove one of the four
whatever-the-correct-word-for-one-of-the-string-arrangements-is,
and wear it in the normal fashion, without further modifying or damaging it, in the daytime, and yet not be mevatel the mitzvah
of tzitzis?
March 13, 2015 10:54 pm at 10:54 pm #1072002YW Moderator-29 👨💻ModeratorBy wearing another pair with it.
March 15, 2015 12:38 am at 12:38 am #1072003☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantIf he’s an eved or goy.
For a Yid, though, each beged with four corners requires tzitzis.
March 15, 2015 1:23 am at 1:23 am #1072004☢️ Rand0m3x 🎲ParticipantI realized just a little too late that I had
left out that they’re his own tzitzis.
DaasYochid, good for you, but I hadn’t realized
that would be considered a possibility.
I’ve revised the riddle accordingly (and made it shorter, too):
How is it possible for a Jewish adult male to wear (in the daytime) his own tallis or tallis koton (of the proper size) which is posul, without modifying or damaging it, and yet not be mevatel the mitzvah of tzitzis?
March 15, 2015 1:28 am at 1:28 am #1072005☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant????, ????
March 15, 2015 1:43 am at 1:43 am #1072006☢️ Rand0m3x 🎲ParticipantSigh… Think hilchos tzitzis, please, DaasYochid. 🙂
(Version 3.0)
How is it possible for a Jewish adult male (of sound mind and not an ????) to wear (in the daytime) his own tallis or tallis koton (of the proper size) which is posul, without modifying or damaging it, and yet not be mevatel the mitzvah of tzitzis?
March 15, 2015 1:57 am at 1:57 am #1072007JosephParticipantIt is better for a Yid to not wear any four-cornered garment with tzitzis (i.e. he wears no tzitzis) than for him to wear a four-cornered garment with posul tzitzis. There is no chiyuv to wear a four-corner garment with tzitzis. But there is a chiyuv to wear kosher tzitzus on a four-corner garment being worn. So if he isn’t wearing any tzitzus he is committing no aveira. If he is wearing posul tzitzis he is committing an aveira.
March 15, 2015 2:20 am at 2:20 am #1072008Josh31ParticipantIt can be a daytime that he is not allowed to add the 4th tzitzis such as Shabbos.
It could be so hot that he gets no enjoyment from wearing the garment.
March 15, 2015 6:39 am at 6:39 am #1072009MammeleParticipantHe wears it thrown on as one does a blanket, not like a piece of clothing?
March 15, 2015 11:56 am at 11:56 am #1072010mobicoParticipantBy removing the fringe through rounding off the corner of the Beged.
March 15, 2015 12:40 pm at 12:40 pm #1072011R.T.ParticipantBy folding it and wearing it around the neck, like a scarf?
March 16, 2015 12:14 am at 12:14 am #1072012☢️ Rand0m3x 🎲ParticipantMammele / R.T.:
Correct, but I accidentally left out “in the normal fashion”
from the second and third revisions of the riddle.
(Version 4.0)
How is it possible for a Jewish adult male (of sound mind and not an ????) to wear (in the normal fashion, in the daytime) his own tallis or tallis koton (of the proper size) which is posul, without modifying or damaging it, and yet not be mevatel the mitzvah of tzitzis?
mobico:
“Without modifying or damaging it.”
Josh31:
While I’m sure your first answer is incorrect,
I don’t know about the second. You might be right,
although I doubt it. It’s not what I had in mind, though.
March 16, 2015 12:20 am at 12:20 am #1072013☢️ Rand0m3x 🎲ParticipantOkay, I may have been laboring under the misconception that one
does not fulfill the mitzvah with a garment if he was already
wearing it before the time when one is obligated in tzitzis.
Thus, it stood to reason that if one cannot fulfill the mitzvah in that case, he would also not be nullifying it if the tzitzis were posul.
But maybe that’s totally wrong, in which case I retract the riddle.
Can I get some help here from someone who, unlike me,
knows what they’re talking about??
March 16, 2015 12:27 am at 12:27 am #1072014Sam2ParticipantAccording to many Rishonim (and the Rama in the Darchei Moshe, I think), the correct answer is that it’s Shabbos/Yom Tov.
March 16, 2015 12:35 am at 12:35 am #1072015Patur Aval AssurParticipantIt’s a ???? ?????? ????? and according to the ??”?.
March 16, 2015 12:58 am at 12:58 am #1072016☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantSam, he wouldn’t be allowed to remove it.
PAA, he said it’s “a pair of kosher tzitzis”. I wouldn’t consider a ???? ???? according to the ??”? to be that.
Randomex, you are correct (that the riddle was a mistake).
March 16, 2015 1:49 am at 1:49 am #1072017Patur Aval AssurParticipantPAA, he said it’s “a pair of kosher tzitzis”. I wouldn’t consider a ???? ???? according to the ??”? to be that.
I assume he meant that mitzad the strings it was kosher, but that the answer would be a situation in which the begged didn’t require tzitzis. Actually, on Friday I typed up a post to clarify if that is what he meant, and I also made the eved suggestion, but for some reason I didn’t post it.
March 16, 2015 1:52 am at 1:52 am #1072018☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantThen we could have posited a case where the material was not subject to the chiyuv.
March 16, 2015 2:15 am at 2:15 am #1072019shulchanhashalemMemberAlso if he is in public and it would be embarrassing he is not Mevatel the Mitzvah. The Rama speaks this out.
April 13, 2015 4:06 am at 4:06 am #1072020☢️ Rand0m3x 🎲ParticipantJosh31, it seems I owe you an apology.
April 13, 2015 11:08 am at 11:08 am #1072021Sam2ParticipantOh. He’s talking about a corpse. That’s the normal fashion for a corpse.
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