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What is it with this am kshei oref? Is it not enough not wearing masks the whole year (justified or not), not social distancing, continuing mass gatherings no matter how many times they are viewed negatively throughout the year-Especially now to PUBLISH pictures and documenting how Yidden are STILL defying orders! Seriously are we a smart nation or the dumbest nation on earth? All Yiddishe websites proudly publishing photos of how we are shopping for daled minim unmasked, how we gather for slichos and Hoshanos unmasked and one on top of the other tightly packed as if the rules dont apply to us “chosen people” especially after the government basically labeled out areas as red zone ghettos! Already stores are denying entry to Jews there have been a few articles already.
What will it take to stop this meshugane gaiva! Stop publishing articles and photos of Jews mass gathering and without masks! You act as if noone has access to these sites but yidden and then complain and are surprised how they make rounds into the news and social media! We dont need photographers from outside we are doing an excellent job ourselves to increase hatred and anti semitism. Enough! Stop publishing these pictures and live streams of shuls so that the world can see how this nation defies orders!
As it is during normal times it isnt that interesting to see a bunch of people davening or buying an esrog. But especially now i think we will do quite alright even without these “cute” and “heartwarming” photos of us gathering and not wearing masks while continuing as if everything is normal. Enough is Enough. Its getting out of control.
Many Americans are outraged by the ridiculous suppression of human rights under the pretext of public health. It is hardly limited to frum Jews. When you look at the figures of all infected (as reflected in antibody tests), one realizes that Covid 19 is a disease that rarely makes people sick, and in the rare cases where someone gets sick it is usually fatal only to those who were seriously ill to begin with.
What it does mean is the the frum community has finally realized that it is dumb to regard New York as a good place to live. We should avoid a state where persecution of religion is considered good public policy. If we wish to stay in America, it is time to start moving to the conservative states.
Very well said. This is a symptom of people forgetting that we are in golus. No other way to rationalize this.
Many Americans are outraged by the ridiculous suppression of regard for the health of others under the pretext of human rights. Many Jews are outraged by the ridiculous suppression of Halacha which tells us to protect our health and that of others under the pretext of relying on Hashem. Many are outraged by the ridiculous suppression of those who enforce social distancing and mask wearing under the pretext of “rarely” and “usually” because apparently people who are ill and at risk and those few healthy exceptions don’t matter enough for us to stand six feet away or wear a mask.
That is not true and not fair. Nobody thinks you don’t matter. If people had a reason to believe that really worked they would do it, no matter how stubborn they talk when you poke them. The problem is that the mayors and governors who made the rules, were all seen breaking them. In new york they made it clear that it’s really about control and not health, so there is no message being passed down that the distancing and masks matter.
The chicago mayor went nuts on lockdown restrictions and then spent weekends in michigan. And the governor and his family went to his other home in Florida If it was really about health, would they do that? .
On top of that is a slew of respected doctors in different communities telling patients and friends that it’s really not going to help anyone but the high risk who should be home. So if one’s doctor, governor and mayor says that, and then the CR posters say really they are murderers or don’t care, is it still okay to continue standing your “my way or the highway” ground or is it time to admit you may be holding overly cautious and *some* of the others may actually be following medical and rabbinical guidelines as well?
**i am not anti mask, i am anti the mudslinging **
95% of people I know who tell others to be quiet in shul talk themselves. We don’t learn from others actions we learn from reality. No one out there will tell you that social distancing doesn’t work and no one knowledgeable will tell you that masks don’t help to stop the disease from spreading. I am not overly cautious, I know that because I have friends that think I am and others who think I’m too loose. Don’t go around with a human rights flag because you want to crowd in shul or in a supermarket. I know people right now who have positive family member in their house but refuse to quarantine. People who are positive themselves and think it’s ok to go out with a mask. Aside for mortality there are long term health repercussions for a lot of people. Keeping a distance and wearing a mask isn’t so difficult. It is a sign of ahavat yisrael, and not doing these thing ms shows you really don’t care. The numbers aren’t rising by accident. People are not being careful
If you know people who are positive and go out anyway than they are idiots, but don’t go projectingbthat onto everyone else. I don’t know such people and i doubt they make up any kind of majority.
“No one out there will tell you that social distancing doesn’t work and no one knowledgeable will tell you that masks don’t help to stop the disease from spreading”
There are many medical proffessionals who will tell you that there is nothing we can do to stop this virus from getting around. You can delay it, but you can’t stop it. If you have decided to pretend that is not so, that is your choice, but you can’t deny people the right to follow their own medical advice. Face it, not everyone who does things you don’t like or understand is evil and uncaring. And if you really are surrounded by so many who actually are, than you should consider moving elsewhere.
Do you want to know what *really* is a sign of ahavat yisroel? Not accusing other jews of not caring.
**i am not anti mask, i am anti the mudslinging **
“there is nothing we can do to stop this virus from getting around. You can delay it, but you can’t stop it.”
All this basically says is that social distancing and masks work to delay the disease from spreading, which is what I said. Just because some say everyone will eventually get it does not make it ok to be careless.
My post was a response to akuperma who claimed that requiring others to be safe was a suppression of human rights and that this disease isn’t a big threat to human health because “Covid 19 is a disease that rarely makes people sick, and in the rare cases where someone gets sick it is usually fatal only to those who were seriously ill to begin with.”
It is people with this mindset that I am referring to. People who think it isn’t a big deal. The people who are out while sick or refuse to quarantine say the same thing.
Nothing to face. The way the disease spreads is person to person. When someone infected is in close proximity to others. Anyone who attends shul where there is no social distancing and no masks either does not care of just doesn’t understand that it is very likely that they will get sick or it is possible they will get others sick. This is not my opinion. If you disagree with this please explain how.
I am in total agreement with you about how wrong his words are. As i just said on a different thread I had never seen irrational postings from him in years of posting but his need to insert some corona-is-cold comment in all his posts since day one is baffling and not worthy of a response.
Regarding everyone getting it and delays… an abridged answer is that this is delayed. It can’t be avoided, it’s been delayed. Delayed from last March when we had no beds or treatment. Is that reason to be careless? Of course not, but my point is that you can’t keep calling everyone uncaring and careless. If they are following their doctors, you can’t keep accusing them of not caring.
Saying it is something everyone will get does NOT mean it’s inevitable so go pass it around (like we did with chicken pox). I agree totally that that is wrong. The comment was referring to the fact that no matter how careful people are, it still creeps in because that is how this virus works and it does not mean someone careless gave it to you. Some people are getting the virus because that’s life, not because of their neighbor, so it’s time to stop pointing fingers. If you haven’t been sick, don’t daven in such a minyan.
I think i have already tried explaining this several times , for instance in the post you responded to, but not effectively. But for what it’s worth…
**i am not anti mask, i am anti the mudslinging **
“ you can’t keep calling everyone uncaring and careless.”
I never did. I was referring to those who suppress the opinion of those who are careful. It was a response to the post that we agree that we disagree with. I never referred to anyone specific or any majority or minority of people. Only to those who have the viewpoint of akuperma. It seems like we agree after all.
A couple of months ago I wrote a letter to a certain magazine asking them to stop putting in pictures of rebbeshe tishen. Instead of printing my letter, they printed another letter warning people that it’s assur to give in tzitzos to a goyishe dry cleaners. I found that very ironic (I would agree that it might be assur to give tzitzos to a goyishe dry cleaners owner that read their magazine)
The reason why chassidim don’t wear masks is not because of stubbornness; it comes from embarrasment. Everyone is embarrassed of everyone else. People that wear masks in shul are openly mocked by others who would also wear a mask if they weren’t afraid of being mocked themselves. The solution, as always, is to start with yourself. You wear a mask and socially distance everywhere, and when a large enough number of people do so, then everyone will become comfortable with it, and you’ll see the percentage of people wearing masks skyrocket.
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