Yeshivish uniform

In the yeshivish world it is disrespectful to wear a colord shirt.

Uh, disrespectful to whom, exactly?

Where in the Torah does it say that someone has to wear a white shirt?

*kapusta*

Is a white shirt with a Nautica logo on the pocket any more “yeshivish” than a blue shirt with no logo?

A Pushete Yid – (who is apparently nisht azoi pushit!)

You make a very interesting point. My boys wear white shirts. Oddly enough, logos on the pocket are not really an issue in HS past 9th grade, but once you hit bais medrash level, high end shirts are almost mandatory (think Brooks Brothers, Paul Fredrick, ect)

“Unfortunately, people are enamored with the uniform and not the person wearing it. “

yes but people do see past it. It may take time, but c’mon , i hope were not all THAT superficial.

“i hope were not all THAT superficial. “

i think that horse is long out of the barn.

“why don’t rabbanim (note the term rabbanim, not rabbis) wear colored shirts?”

They are the ones who should wear the white shirts during the week so that we respect them and their roles.

But a Talmid should not dress as a Rebbe.

In the time of the Beit HaMikdash the white Bigdai Kehuna showed the special role of those who were most directly involved in the Divine service.

See the Gemara in Shabbos 119B. Different factors that led to the Desstruction of the first Temple are brought down: Rabbi Yitzchak says because they equated the great and small and Isiah 24:2, “And the nation will be like the Kohain…”. Later a reason is brought by Rabbi Yehudah because they disgraced Talmidei Chachamim (Torah scholars). If boys just past bar mitzvah dress like established Talmidei Chachamim, then it is very easy to disrespect rabbanim.

During the week for the rest of us when there is a a need to dress bekavodig, a solid light blue shirt will do.

and i would have to think very hard about marrying someone who did have a logo on his white shirt.

Thus fulfilling the dictum of Chazal “al tistakel b’mah sheyesh bo ela b’kankan.”

The Wolf

If we are to have any Kavod HaTorah we can not have entire communities dressed in the Levush of Talmidei Chachamim (Torah scholars).

Those who represent themselves to the world as Torah Scholars are held to a very high standard. This standard is so high that most of us are not there, and certainly not bar mitzvah boys who have not had many years to develop themselves to that standard.

To have teenagers carry the flag of “Bnei Torah” may spur some of them to these higher standards eventually, but the flag is going to get soiled.

josh – i disagree. i think it gives the boys a very powerful push upward, and it also causes them to act in the bekavodig manner of a ben Torah from that young age. where does it say that the disgrace of talmidei chachamim was caused by boys dressing like their rebbes?

i didn’t understand that bit about the kohanim, can you explain it again?

wolf – 🙂 it’s not true. i never said that the people wearing logos are any worse than those who do not wear logos, i said that those who do are not for me. maybe it’s because i was tortured through school by logo-wearers who were totally absorbed in themselves and what they could do to elevate their status, but i have this bad feeling about logo-wearers. of course, i said i would have to ‘think very hard’ about marrying someone who wears logos, not that i never would. i would have to make sure for myself that the logo isn’t reflecting something undesirable.

josh – hachitzonius meorrer es hapenimiyus. even if we’re not on such a high level, dressing like a talmid chacham can make it easier for us to get there.

tzippi – it’s a great story, but i think that the point was a different one, although i sort of see how it connects here. the point was that he was so involved in kiruv, avodas hakodesh, that he didn’t have time to change into ‘bekavodig’ clothes before davening. but what i’m saying here isn’t really that. i’m trying to define and find the reason for, what is considered bekavodig.

A Jew dresses like a Jew. Its always was that way, from the time we were in Eretz Mitzrayim, and always should be that way. The uniform of the Jew may vary over time, but there is always a Jewish uniform.

The pnimius is also meorrer the chitzonios.

Is my sons high school, the Rabbeim watch closely those who decide to wear only white shirts, and very often after observation discourage cetrtain boys from doing so. The official yeshiva dress code allows for blue and pinstriped shirts.

Wearing a white shirt announces your affiliation, the same way, lihavdil, wearing a baseball jersey announces the team you like to follow. Wearing the uniform does not you a member of the team and wearing a white shirt does not make you a ben torah. In the minds of many, since the outside impacts the inside, it stands to follow that wearing a white shirt makes one a ben torah and baal middos.

Ask your LOR.

Per my LOR, it includes a white shirt.

“Per my LOR, it includes a white shirt.”

Per my LOR is does not. According to your LOR by wearing a blue shirt I am ipso facto dressing like a goy?

Just an FYI: My LOR is the one you praised as a tzadik on another thread.

Since there are many well respected LORs, and the opinions of these LORs regarding the “uniform of a yid” varies from one to the next, it follows that either there are multiple uniforms (which is all the rage in the sports world today, to encourage fans to purchase multiple jerseys) or no uniforms at all.

R’ Shmuel Berenbaum had certain ideas about yeshivas and what a ben torah should be immersed in. R’ Shmuel said in a shmooze it’s bitul torah for a ben torah in yeshiva to be reading a newspaper “even one such as the yated”. R’ Moshe Tuvia Leiff, heard from R’ Shmuel, that if there would have been daf yomi in the days of the Yevanim, they would not have included it in the decree.

R’ Shmuel, further,had a certain view of what should be learnt in a yeshiva. Some 35 years ago, a small group of talmidim and alumni formed a chaburah to learn the Rambam’s moreh nevuchim at night in the yeshiva’s ezras nashim. When R’ Shmuel found out about this, he told them they cannot do this in yeshiva and must learn this elsewhere. More recently, some 15 years ago, a fellow arrived in yeshiva and started a navi chaburah during night seder. Again when it came to R’ Shmuel’s attention, he briefly told him that it was not acceptable.

Rema711,

correct

The Kitzur ( chap.3) spells out the reason for wearing black.

White is more kabbalistic.