Yeshivat Maharat

Wrong place to ask that question.

I’ve been burned many times here over my support of them.

It’s under the leadership of Avi Weiss. His male clergy aren’t able to get jobs in mainstream orthodox shuls, nor join the RCA.

To quote a very smart (and quite Chareidi) woman that I respect very much: It’s entirely possible that something like this is beneficial and somewhat necessary for the community. But Avi Weiss isn’t the guy who should be setting it up.”

I’ve been burned here because many people have no respect for hashkafot other than their own.

Daniel Rosen: “rebdoniel: perhaps you should ask yourself instead why you would be burned.”

Well, maybe you shouldn’t troll and start specifically inflammatory OPs to create controversy- and maybe, just maybe, it might be a good idea not to ask people what they think and then, when they respond with, um, WHAT THEY THINK, to then attack them for it.

You get what you pay for.

Why are people stooping to respond to something that seems to be meant solely to stir up sinas chinam?

There is nothing to be gained from ANOTHER thread on this that wasn’t on any of the other (far too many) threads on the subject recently.

I want other peoples opinions which is why I posted it in the first place.

There is a desparate need to have women out there on the field, because many women are veru humiliated to have to ask various Sha’alos to a male Rov; Especially in the realm of Taharas Mishpocho & Bedikah cloths, but even in other spheres as well such as sensitive issues with Availus.

In this same vein, there is a desparate need to admit women onto Hatzoloh, because it is very humiliating for a woman requiring medical attention to have to treated by a man {especially when the man is the neighbor from down the block who knows the woman’s family well} rather than by a woman, especially for a childbirth, but even for other situations.

Rav Avi Weiss shlita has done a lot of tremendous Chasodim, especially in the spere of Pidyon Shevuyim vis a vis Soviet Jewry, so we have a lot to be envious of his myriad Zechuyos.

I’m no chosid of R’ Weiss, nor am I against some kind of increased role for women in leadership roles in Orthodox congregations.

In terms of presence and leadership, the two primary elements cited by rishonim in excluding women from non rabbinic leadership roles were ” nikayon” and “kovod hatzibur”.

Nikayon referenced the role as mothers, and the needs of small children that mothers would tend to, and all that it entails. Kovod Hatzibur is by definition a subjective thing, and if the tzibur (not the rov) doesn’t feel slighted, the issue is diminished, if not removed completely.

A well educated and/or seicheldik woman who is not looking after kids and is respected by the tzibur should be, I believe, enabled to take leadership roles in the governance of a shul.

Even for the most liberal, though, could a woman fulfill all the roles of a Rov? She can’t be an Eid; She can’t sit on a beis din; She can’t daven for the omud; Can she be an encourager for the performance of mitzvos she is not obligated to perform?

Thus lots of reasons a woman can’t or shouldn’t perform all the duties of a Rov, even if she is just as well educated in halocho as one.

However – women are already fulfilling the roles of toanei halocho in divorce cases in botei din in Israel. No need for smicha to know halocho, and A woman can arguably represent the needs of a woman in a divorce better than a man can.

Also, as mentioned above, it is extremely uncomfortable for women to go to a Rov with issues relating to Nidah and bediko. So much so, that I know of women who simply refuse to ask these shailos if it means having to do so. The harm this potentially does to shalom bayis is grave. It seems to me that there is a need for women to assume a role as halachic advisors or decisors on matters of taharas hamishpocha.

As we all know, there is an enormous amount of expertise on kashrus issues among the women of our communities. It has long been informal practice to ask such questions woman to woman. Not much of a change to encourage their presence in kehilos as halachic advisors on these issues either.

There are other areas like these where a halachic role for women should be encouraged, IMHO. Resistance to this degree of female participation in halacho is on much weaker ground than resistance to the maharat concept.

I do not have an issue with women being rabbis and I still think that Maharat is “treif.”

The problem with Maharat is this sentence: “Yeshivat Maharat represents a natural evolution towards a pluralistic community, where women and men, from every denomination, can enhance the Jewish world.”

That sentence is problematic on at least 3 levels, maybe more.

“I have an issue with women being rabbis.

They have cooties.”

Now I realize that the this website is geared towards high school kids and immature adults who think they are witty or clever apposed to yeshiva bochrim. I always pictured the guys who ran this website as Rabbis with black hats.

yichusdik: I think hypothetically, you make a good point. But practically speaking, I think it can open up a path better left closed. Once you open a new position of Jewish leadership, there will be those that will push/push themselves into more areas of Jewish life.

You have the “Rabbonis” that you’re bringing your bedikos and your chickens too. Soon you’re asking her your hilchos Shabbos. Five years later, your neighbor is bringing his esrog.

When its an official title, you have an opening to broaden the responsibilities in dangerous ways. When you are going to the “Rov’s Rebbitzen” and her authority is only an extension of her husband’s, then I feel this possibility is prevented.

The question is, why be poretz geder? Like you say, many of these roles have been and are already unofficially filled by women. What is wrong with the way of our fathers (and mothers)?

It’s really quite funny that some of the posters here are taking the “learned” higher ground, when the graduates of this institution could wipe the floor with any of them in a halachik debate…

GAW: See my post in OOM’s thread. She’s really not a great example (not through any fault of her own).

WS: Fine. That was her choice. How about the other examples I brought in that thread? Reb. Jungreis? Reb. Tarshish?

Women can easily “make their mark” within the orthodox jewish world without being a “Rabbit” or Maharat.

GAW: You have somewhat of a point about Rebbetzin Jungreis, but Rebbetzin Tarshish is influential in her sphere. I didn’t go to her seminary, so I can say that what she says has nothing to do with me.

However, the whole “If a rabbi says it, it goes” mentality means that if a rav says something, it’s taken a lot more seriously.

Think about it- it’s all the mindset. Be honest with yourself- would you listen equally, as a gut reaction, to a rav and a rebbetzin?

Paradoxically, though, that’s why I don’t think that female Orthodox rabbis make sense- because most Orthodox people won’t buy into it, making the whole designation worthless. It’s just inflation.

gaw: You should really be getting double points for overtime here… 🙂

I know where you are from now.

Where am I from?

kk, I can go along with that.

But the one thing we can learn from this is that if we are not willing to accept a female orthodox rabbi/ maharat, that perhaps, the community rebbitzins should become more active in our shuls so that perhaps, this never would have happened.

One of the graduates is planning on going into teaching. If you went to a bais yaakov seminary, you could get a teachers certificate without the controversy. If you are more modern, you could go to stern and get a Jewish education teaching certificate as well. If you want to teach Hebrew language in public schools, you just need to have a teaching degree and pass an exam created by Brandeis, and then you can teach in a public school. What is the point of this program anyway?