- This topic has 113 replies, 44 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 6 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
Sac,
While I agree with you, I think that you don’t need to call him a bum (he very well may be, but still…)
I don’t believe in alcohol. And someone who has no problem ordering alcohol on a date is someone to be wary of. I dont’ think it is appropriate in the lounge, in the bowling alley or elsewhere. If the bochur has a need to have a beer to chill, then there is a problem.
maybe he was having a lousy time and figured a little alchohol can take the edge off. Why is it his fault??
A beer does not make you drunk in small quantities.
I would not consider it appropriate behavior for a guy to drink acohol on a date period. Based in being in a lounge, that “derech” doesn’t even allow for wine at a fancy resteraunt. I would be concerned with possible alcohol over-use (abuse might be pushing it – but you never know) and other crass behaviors as well. (yes, crass is the perfect word!)
“A lounge has the same status as a bar.”
Why is it muttar to order a coke and not a beer when you are not fraternizing with the other patrons? Going through the Aruch Hashulchan in this siman (its all I have available at the moment) it appears from the way he explains the din/takana (appears is the actionable word right now, I really should go through it a second time and also go through the many mareh mikomos he brings down) the issue is one of drinking with them (which is why for example you can buy the drink and take it home when no kashrus issue is involved). I’m not arguing with you, just going through the sugya.
Regarding the fellow who ordered the beer, I think he did it more to impress his date than anything else. He utterly failed to do so.
Very poor judgement although many drive after a drink or 2. She should not see him again
When will the boys learn. Smoking and drinking do not impress women. Adaraba it turns us completely off.
maybe he ordered the drink hoping she would not want to date him again.
could be she was not what he expected and he wanted to be sure she wouldnt try for a second date.
“I don’t believe in alcohol”
I believe in using it for Kiddush and Chosen Tishes
i dont belive in it for kiddush either. i have seen way too many people at kiddushes drink till they are in a stupor.
kiddush can be made with grape juice
Mike, I have seen too much alcohol abuse especially in kids and in young marrieds. It is pretty ugly and very dangerous. So yes, I like to leave it to Shabbos kiddush and special occasions.
Does the YW CR have the same halacha as a bar? Can I drink a beer in the CR??
“I don’t believe in alcohol”
thats ridiculous. there are liquor stores all over the place. i personally have seen alcohol on NUMEROUS occasions. sometimes i even tasted it.
i suppose you dont believe in the lunar landing either.
I don’t believe in alcohol.
Every time you say that, a bottle of Red Bull loses it’s wings.
The Wolf
apushatayid,
It seems that the main gezeira was indeed to prevent drinking with them but it was enacted in a situation which could come to that; that’s why it’s okay to bring it back to your house, but not to drink it there.
As far as Coke, the poskim argue about whether a non-alcoholic beverage is included (and as pointed out by ravshalom, the R”ma even allows most alcoholic beverages). I think that the only non-alcoholic beverages which might be included are those used socially, such as coffee, but not water or even Coke.
I think calling him a bum is very apropos. I wasnt referring to his religious level I was referring to his middos*.
Drinking on a date, on a second one no less (!) shows a girl you arent interested in her or what she has to say. If you want to chill, or you NEED to chill, do that on your own time! Its disrespectful and uncalled for and he will continue getting dumped until he learns how to properly treat a woman.
(Definition of bum is also obnoxious person. Look it up.)
Shlishi,
I just noticed your post; I think my previous one answers your question.
When I started going out, I asked a rov what type of shailos I should be aware of. I was expecting to hear about yichud issues, but he told me not to buy an alcoholic beverage (with a bit of a twinkle in his eye; he knew I wasn’t the type anyway). He said nothing about soft drinks. My posts here are really just an educated guess as to his reasoning.
DY: Coffee is used socially? Coke is not used socially? Are dates not a social function? If so, the opposite would seem to hold true.
PM,
Coke is a thirst quencher.
As an illustration, some poskim consider coffee to be chamar medinah, but I don’t think anyone says it about Coke.
Typically a person might grab a cup of coffee in the office or car when needing a boost, while drinking Coke at a meal meeting a client or other social function in a restaurant.
I don’t believe in alcohol.
Every time you say that, a bottle of Red Bull loses it’s wings.
The Wolf
Peter Pan meets George Bailey meets energy drinks?
Daas Yochid
Coke is NOT a thirst quencher! Neither is beer! BOTH caffeine and alcohol (which I “believe in”)are diuretics- they dehydrate you by drawing water out of your system.
i dont know the lumdus but i know that most Poskim consider coffee to be a chamar medina and soft drinks to be maim d’alma.
People invite each other for a cup of coffee. The response would not be “I’m not thirsty”. If you offer someone a soda, he might turn you down because he’s not thirsty.
See Igros Moshe O”C 2 – 75
DY: Coffee is used socially? Coke is not used socially?
It most certainly is used socially. And I believe that if someone uses Coke on a date it is a 100% valid reason to end the shidduch. But I’m radical.
“he will continue getting dumped until he learns how to properly treat a woman.”
not sure how drinking a beer makes him not know how to treat a women….I drink beer and know how to treat a women…if you don’t believe me, ask my wife 🙂
veteran,
That’s why I capitilized. ?
Very funny wolf and so true sac!!. Imho I think drinking beer is wrong, perhaps a mixer if u were gonna take a cab but beer is cheap and he def shouldnt drive afterwards even if he insists he can handle his alchohol. I have had guys who were really tired when it was time to go, and I did offer to drive although none of them took me up on it…. 🙂 and bh they made it home alive.
I dont think i would ever date the guy again but he might have just wanted to show the girl that he is “matcho” / cool which they think this shows even though it doesn’t! Its like smoking- they think it shows how cool they are but it just shows their true colors….
rite, i agree, all the secrets come out :))!!
Daas Yochid, I apologize for my tone before since you are obviously also knowledgeable in the sugya. But my point was just that since ????? ???? it is ????, it is wrong to say that he did something assur. Since, as you pointed out in your post, some ??????? use various forms of recommendation to be ?????, it can by definition at most be called a ?????.
Regarding a lounge having the same status as a pub, that is highly debatable. As is clear from the whole ???? with all of its details, the idea is to prevent social drinking which leads to socializing and worse. Sitting with a date in the same room as the place you purchased a drink can hardly be considered ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?????? (if you disagree you obviously have no clue what social drinking is), and most likely fits perfectly into ???? ?????? that the SA says is fine.
As always, any ????? that is ???? ????? should be directed at one’s LOR.
aries2756
I don’t believe in alcohol. And someone who has no problem ordering alcohol on a date is someone to be wary of. I dont’ think it is appropriate in the lounge, in the bowling alley or elsewhere. If the bochur has a need to have a beer to chill, then there is a problem.
Good thing you weren’t in my shul last Shabbos. Someone gave a kiddush for yahrzeit. Virtually the entire minyan was drinking, mostly Scotch.
mikehall
I didnt say if you drink beer you dont know how to treat a woman (but nice try). I said that on a second date (especially since he is “Yeshivish”) when you are trying to get to know someone and you make it a point to order an alcoholic beverage you are showing you are uninterested in getting to know HER.
Coke is NOT a thirst quencher! Neither is beer! BOTH caffeine and alcohol (which I “believe in”)are diuretics- they dehydrate you by drawing water out of your system.
You’re right, but I wasn’t talking from a medical perspective. Wouldn’t it be interesting if regular Coke was prohibited but caffeine free Coke was permitted? ?
Ive been to Tishes where they served Beer
I apologize for my tone
No problem.
it can by definition at most be called a ?????.
I wouldn’t say at most (there are opinions that it is assur meikar hadin), but the point is well taken. It’s certainly something which a “yeshiva guy” should be concerned with.
you obviously have no clue what social drinking is
You’re probably right about that, but the opposite of “???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ??????” is drinking “???? ???” (from thirst – see Chochmas Adam), which this is not.
As always, any ????? that is ???? ????? should be directed at one’s LOR.
Of course; that happened to be where I was coming from, as I mentioned earlier.
you are obviously also knowledgeable in the sugya
Now THAT’S debatable! ?
showerzinger says:
“Coke is NOT a thirst quencher! Neither is beer! BOTH caffeine and alcohol (which I “believe in”)are diuretics- they dehydrate you by drawing water out of your system. “
That’s incorrect. Since they have caffeine, alcohol, sugar, etc, they are not as good at hydrating you as water would be. But if you were stranded on a ship with only Coke, tea, or beer you wouldn’t die of thirst.
B’h I hold of the other Torah where drinking beer is not usser. In addition, if it is a glass cup and clean there is no issue of traifos since glass can not be mikabul tumah.
The only issue with a bar is drinking with goyim and unless this girl is not Jewish there is no Halacha issue of him drinking.
Now, should a boy drink on the second date? Who are we to answer what is appropriate or not? If this girl is the type not to mind, then there is nothing wrong. The fact that she is asking this question, means it bothers her and therefore she should not date him because obviously, he feels it is appropriate.
Or maybe it was a bad date and he needed alcohol:):) Who are we to judge?
glass can be mikabel tumah
it doesnt absorb cold blios however
The only issue with a bar is drinking with goyim and unless this girl is not Jewish there is no Halacha issue of him drinking.
See the S”A cited by Daas Yochid prohibiting ever drinking in a bar.
Girl,
If you liked him & had a nice time, go out again & see what happens. If the relationship develops, you can ask him about the beer-drining date in a non-confrontational manner & see how he responds. I think his response will give you real insight into his character. Does he laugh you off? Does he listen respectfully to your point of view?
OK, now everyone can go ahead and yell at me.
Shrek…actually it’s the smartest thing i’ve read!
I’ve been busy on the other “beer” threads today, and did not have the time I really should have devoted to this thread.
Some of my favorites:
“Ive been to Tishes where they served Beer” – and taken a date? Ooooh, dus iz a chosid!
” Or maybe it was a bad date and he needed alcohol:):) “
Great line. Nothing more to say 🙂
On a serious note: While I personally think alchohol on a date is a bad move, if the date were at a ball game, it might not be so out of context. But if that were the case, I would ask her, “Would you like a beer? Or a soda?” and take my cue from there.
(Then again, if you’re at the point of taking a date to a ball game, you no doubt know the social ropes without our 2 cents.)
Batter up!
Coffee is most certainLy a “social drink”, its the whole appeal of a place like starbucks, especially those located in a barnes and nobles.
The only issue with a bar is drinking with goyim and unless this girl is not Jewish there is no Halacha issue of him drinking.
As I stated earlier, the gezeirah even applies if there are no goyim drinking.
glass … doesnt absorb cold blios
No material absorbs cold blios (there are exceptions – davar charif, kavush). According to the mechaber, glass won’t even absorb hot blios. The R”ma argues.
@Wolf: re: Redbull. LOLOLOL!!!
Thank you daas
I was always makpid to drink beer on dates, because the fountain sodas use unfiltered water.
I got around the problem Daas is raising by snorting it through my nose.
popa: Do you have a son in shidduchim?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.