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Hi folks! I just dated a guy and we went to a classic 2nd date typical hotel lounge. I ordered water as usual, he ordered….beer. Okay,so I understand if we’d have been in a restaurant and hed order alcohol.or in a bowling alley and hed order beer from the bar.but on a beginning date-in circles where things are still formal,do you folks out there feel what he did was appropriate?
Was he driving home afterwards?
Yet you’d have no problem with him getting beer in a bar at the bowling alley??
I would recommend that you ask a serious shaila about continuing. Although he probably did not realize that it’s assur (S.A. Y.D. 114-1), it seems a pretty crass thing to do on a date.
A Frum person should never be in a bar.
Depends who you are and who he is.
If you’d be ok with bowling, and ok with beer at bowling, you should be ok with this.
If you’d be ok with bowling, and ok with beer at bowling,
and ok with violating halacha?
A Frum person should never be in a bar.
I guess I’m not frum since I was playing backgammon the other day and was sent to the bar.
Just another sign that I’m going to hell in the afterlife.
The Wolf
What’s backgammon have to do with going to a bar?
I guess I’m not frum since I was playing backgammon the other day and was sent to the bar.
It’s a good thing you’re not a lawyer.
What’s backgammon have to do with going to a bar?
I guess you’ve never played backgammon.
It’s a good thing you’re not a lawyer.
What difference does it make? Can I be sent to Hell for eternity twice?
The Wolf
It IS less expensive to get soda from Shop Rite.
Isn’t there a soda machine in the area?
How can you drink from the hotel cup they pour the drink into? The cup may have been used for non-kosher.
girl22~ I’m veryy chill & I think it’s inappropriate… even if he said the alcohol would be outta his system before he had to drive you home.
What difference does it make?
Temperature
How can you drink from the hotel cup they pour the drink into? The cup may have been used for non-kosher.
It’s cold, but as I posted earlier, it’s nevertheless assur.
Girl22 I take it that you are ignoring me because you were there and think I saw you/know you. That is not the case- I am only assuming you were there because I know that they have a policy that if you do not order an alcoholic drink then they charge you $20 per person minimum just for sodas. When my brother went on a date there a few months ago the waiter told him this policy and he said- ok I’ll take two cokes and beer! If you were at Allegria then perhaps that is the reason why he bought a beer and if you were somewhere else then perhaps they have the same policy so he decided to evade the wasted $40 and buy a beer….
ooooo I’m SOORRRY- i missed your earlier post! LOL!
Daas Yochid:
It’s assur to drink any drink from the hotel’s cups? I thought your citation of S”A was regarding beer specifically. Is the reason it is assur because of the non-kosher nature of the utensil it is poured into?
And how then is it so common for frum people on dates to be ordering drinks from hotels?
What’s wrong with ordering beer on a date? It’s not like he became plastered. Also, OP, if your chilled enough to discuss your date in a co-ed online forum, you should be chilled enough to order beer on a date (let alone the guy).
It prob tells you something about the guy; namely that he is rather chilled. it is a statement to drink alcohol on the 2nd date. question is where you are at? are you comfortable with that kind of guy?
Bowling under the influence can be dangerous.
Without addressing the other issues here, I’d like to point out that there is nothing wrong with driving after having a single beer, especially if he was not planning on driving for an hour or so. His blood alcohol level would never have been near the legal limit, and after an hour or so should be close to zero.
Daas Yochid – what are you talking about????
As for the concern with being able to drive he is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!An average person processes one “drink” (a shot of scotch,glass of wine,one beer)in an hour. In fact he’s need multiple drinks to be over the legal limit of .08
He should have made the date his designated driver. Better safe than Sorry!
Wolf do u like to use the doubling cube?
EEEWWWWW! Besides potentially being dangerous, if he is driving, it is SO unclassy to do that, especially on a first date. Though I am not much of a drinker, I am not a teetotaler, either. But I would never drink even ONE drink, if I would be driving, and certainly not on a date. Especially not on a first date.
Keenobserver, your scientific acumen notwithstanding (NOT being sarcastic, as you made a good point), how a person metabolizes one beer, depends on many factors, including height and weight, what he had to eat and drink besides the beer, etc. On an empty stomach, it can go right to his head.
Wolf do u like to use the doubling cube?
Yes.
The Wolf
To clarify:
The S.A. I quoted earlier says that it’s assur to drink an alcoholic beverage at the place of purchase (when purchased from a non-Jew).
The issue which was brought up about the cup is not a problem (regardless of whether it was glass) because the beer is cold. Nevertheless, it is still assur because of the first issue.
I know the problem, the girl is upset it wasn’t scotch !!
DY: IOW, the halacha (that you cited from S”A) prohibits ever drinking alcohol in a (non-Jewish) bar.
glass is not bolaya.
That’s a machlokes.
🙂 girl22,I am not accusing you of pounding beers, drinking maybe, pounding sounds a little heavy though. Snowball fights on a first date would definitely depend on your personality and chemistry with the guy. Having rules on a date is bizarre. Of course, there needs to be proper decorum, but I don’t see anything wrong with having a drink on a date. Would it make a difference if your second date was at a shabbos table and he had a lchaim? Also, I am clearly out of town, so if there are rules where you are from, diregard this. Hatzlacha with dating!
Daas Yochid: Did you bother to even read the SA you quoted? Not to mention the Rama…
For all those concerned, the SA specifically says that the issue is only if someone is ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ??????. This clearly refers to a situation such as a pub or a bar, not a date in a hotel lounge. Further, the Rama cites numerous Rishonim and Acharonim that beer made from grain (such as most beer on the market today) would be permitted, and that such is the minhag in ?????? ??? i.e. Ashkenazi communities.
rshalom: What is the minhag of Ashkenazi communities? Certainly not to drink in a bar C”V. The S”A cited by DY clearly prohibits that.
Doesnt the Rma say that “shechar shel tvuah” the minhag is to be meikel?
Either way, bar, in the context of a hotel lounge means the place from where the drinks are purchased/served, one orders a glass of water or a diet coke at this bar as well.
Its ironic, the reason for the gezeirah is “chasunos” and this is where everyone goes for dates.
Would you have felt any different if he had ordered Wine (Assuming they had Kosher wine) or a cocktail (Pina Colada , Stawberry Dacquri etc)
A lounge has the same status as a bar.
The ??”? and ??”? are ?????, and the ?”? writes ?????? ?????. The ???? ??? writes ???? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ???.
Just to break it down. I’m going to assume that since you went to a lounge on a second date you probably associate yourself in the more “Yeshivish” circles.
Good decision, your better off without the bum.
Besides he doesnt take your safety seriously. Hotel lounges dont usually give the standard 12 oz bottle, they have beer on tap and give you a large cup. Good chance he was driving inebriated.
DY: So the issur is only to drink alcohol where it is served (i.e. a bar), and not a non-alcoholic beverage (i.e. a hotel lounge)?
“Good decision, your better off without the bum”
In terms of her safety, the average male can drink more than 1 beer and still be OK to drive.
I know of plenty of Frum people that are pillars of their community that enjoy a nice cool one once in a while.
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