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She wanted revenge because her so called boy friend was arrested a while back. I remember the story then and how she swore she would get back at him for helping to have him arrested ,she got her revenge today, BUT there is justice, and she will get hers……
It is reasonable to be skeptical of the accuser especially since the accused is a well known, established member of the kehilla, while the accuser is a heretofore unknown girl who is no longer part of the kehilla.
However she has a few saving graces.
Yanky Horowitz is extremely street smart-you cannot get one past him. He is also a very respectful person. If he endorsed her it’s because he verified independently that her claims are indisputably true.
Her parents,who are part of the kehilla, backed her.
A frum therapist took the stand and testified that she advised the accuser to press charges. Coming forward was not her own idea. She moved on with life. She holds a job and goes to college.
She has been a highly immoral person since at least 15 yeats old, before she ever met him. Her word is as good as Pinnocio’s.
She has been a highly immoral person since at least 15 yeats old
Again, so what?
Even if she were promiscuous, that doesn’t give people free reign to molest her — and even if promiscuous, she is entitled to justice if she is molested.
What matters is what happened between her and Mr. Weberman. Her other past activities (real or imagined) should have no bearing on the matter at all.
The Wolf
chalilavchas-
you keep reiterating the same stupidity. others have testified that there aren’t three lacks on the door. just because she says so doesn’t make it so.
The 14 hour trips as I understand were with his wife. there is nothing wrong with that
you keep saying how you you’ve heard things. You’ve heard how people say XYZ. Hearing things from people doesn’t make it so.
Yes I do think she chose her life to do that. she definitely did do this for revenge. there is absolutely no question about it.
I’m not sure what you’re angry about. But to believe this was a fair trial is absurd. the DAs office did a good job portraying him as an alien from out of space trying to live among people. so no, I don’t plead guilty even after this verdict. the proves absolutely nothing other than some people who thought of satmer as crazies to begin with feeling good about their confirmed belief.
for shame.
Iced…
What moral person takes a 15 year old girl on a road trip???
The road trip was never denied by anyone
The verdict is a great tragedy and an insult to the Jewish people and an insult to the intelligence of the American people at the most basic level.
It is the judgement that is given by instinct- the jury- like unthinking animals. May Hashem avenge the injustice soon.
An insult to the jewish people is people defending this guilty party.
He was not found guilty because of Anti-Semitism , He was found guilty because its likely he committed a crime
No evidence to convict. He is innocent.
If Satmar doesn’t have much faith in the justice system, why are the rebbes fighting in the justice system?
ZD: Likely? That’s what’s irking me and many others. It’s supposed to be beyond a reasonable doubt. I don’t think it reached that threshold of proof. Very sad.
And I highly doubt the jurors weren’t influenced by the negative press — where even his weight was held against him.
“The verdict is a great tragedy and an insult to the Jewish people”
The Satmar community is a chashuvah kehilla. I have a lot of family there, and they are among the most special human beings you can find. Bikur cholim does amazing selfless work etc. etc. Satmar is not under scrutiny-an individual is.
“The 14 hour trips as I understand were with his wife. there is nothing wrong with that”
The accused never denied being alone with her on those trips.
“But to believe this was a fair trial is absurd.”
The accused hired a well known attorney who crossed examined her extensively. He attempted to destroy her credibility but was not successful. The jury was unanimous.
“She has been a highly immoral person since at least 15 yeats old, before she ever met him.”
She met him at age 12 and continued until 15.
“others have testified that there aren’t three lacks on the door.”
The were several therapy sessions per week for 3 years each lasting 4 hours in duration. He does not deny this-nor that the door was closed during this time. If there were no locks that may make it halachikly ok (?) but there are still hashkafic ramifications.
I’m not following this case (I usually do, I must know of all details, rulings, proceeding etc. I am an overpriced unlawyer, illegal expert). From what I read here (and the snippets I get on another site) I gather that not too much yiras shamayim can be attained while getting drilled over and over with these intimate shameful details. After a while they seep inside, not too healthy. So you’ll have to excuse my lack of a very valuable important comment on this. If I’d be a Rav, judge or the like, I’d have to listen to all this shutz, being that they’re smart enough to keep me out (to their misfortune), I don’t think I should be peeking and poking at disgusting intricate, intimate details.
I personally think a better service to K’lal Yisroel would be to formulate and issue some sort of hand book or guidelines how to prevent such incidents. It should be in some language suitable for all. I think many would benefit from such a publication, more than from just miring in this case’s filth.
I recommend everyone google the following and THEN come back to discuss if you still feel you have something valid to say.
Weberman trial: How do we know victim is telling truth?
Z-kite, by your “non-judgemental” comments (judgement) you have made your opinion clear.
However -there were no sordid incidents because there was no proof- only allegations.
Whether guilty or not I surely don’t know. Is there a smoking gun like in other circumstantial cases? No, it doesn’t appear to be.
I do see many Frum bloggers here and other places jumping for joy at this guilty verdict. This I believe is due to Sinas Chinum on their part. Forget about what Bais Din would have done – nothing near life in prison, but let’s look at this from a Goyishe perspective. They say the Jury saw circumstatial evidence and that’s why they found him Guilty. Let’s look at a different case in our Court system (even though a different State, but they all work basically the same) – the Anthony trial. There was tons of circumstantial evidence against her, more than this Satmar guy, but the Jury claimed it wasn’t enough to convict. Over here, there was much less and yet guilty on ALL counts?
It seems juries in general are basing their decisions on emotions rather than on facts. In Florida it was a young “innocent” girl on trial for murder – poor girl. In NY it was a Chassidish Middle Age guy supposedly molesting a young girl – poor girl.
Forget about guilty or innocence, forget about what the Torah requires, how could anybody with any brains, let alone s/o who was brought up Frum, have faith in a Jury system that is a total failure? You see clearly time after time Juries basing their decision on emotions, not on facts. Eg. OJ, L. Nelson, besides the above.
So perhaps all these Frum bloggers should Not jump for joy just because some Jury decided what they wanted to hear?!? It’s even more saddening to hear from Frum bloggers -“Justice has been served”. Justice is Not possible with a Jury system, even if sometimes they get it right!
All those who say he is innocent – If you say that we don’t have proof and shouldn’t call him guilty, I will agree, as long as you don’t call him innocent either. Don’t play both sides of the fence, either we aren’t allowed to declare our opinions as knowledge, or we are.
There is at least one other victim of this man who did not originally press charges for fear of retribution. They may now press charges against him
Horowitz has been wrong several times in the past with his knee-jerk reaction of believing every allegation against frum people.
the Rasha is not FRUM, he is a RASHA.
When you commit a terrrible averiah and then commit a terrible chilul hashem you are no longer frum
Chalilavechas: I AM NOT LIVING IN DENIAL! Unfortunately, I know too well the level, or lack of it in today’s Jewish community.It is very sad to see how low people have fallen, there are many things to attribute to this horrible level of filth.I won’t get into that here.Just because you feel as many others on this sight that he is guilty does not mean that I have to agree with you.Nor does it mean that you have to bless my daughters, it makes me wonder where you are coming from?? The anti Satmer sentiment on this sight , is quite obvious, this will really help bring achdus back into Klal Yisroel, won’t it? You are as naive about Satmer as the unknown media who have absolutely have no idea what Chassidus or Satmer is all about!
This is an anonymous forum, How do you or anyones backround
This is not about Satmar, Yeshivish or any chassidism. Its about abuse.
There could very well be Satmars on this Forum who are happy with this verdict and dont want such a rasha in their comminity
You are as naive about Satmer as the unknown media who have absolutely have no idea what Chassidus or Satmer is all about!
So educate us. I could hear some good things about Satmar right now (besides for the usual “Bikur Cholim ladies”).
“It is the judgement that is given by instinct- the jury- like unthinking animals. May Hashem avenge the injustice soon.”
Although there was no forensic evidence, the circumstantial evidence is suggestive. Establishing a court system is one of the 7 mitsvos bnei noach.
“It seems juries in general are basing their decisions on emotions rather than on facts.”
There are issues that upset people-yidden and goyim alike. It does not reflect well that he did not have a license, his office was in his house rather then in a professional office(and he admits that he kept a bed in the office), she did not have a choice-neither about going to counseling in general nor about choosing Weberman in particular. The menahel decides which girls must go to counseling on threat of expulsion, and they dictate which therapist they must go to. Weberman is a first cousin to the menahel. They must give $12,000 up front. This presents itself as bullying, and would upset anybody.
chalila: 1) Engelman’s word has no value. 2) Mr. W never had yichud with anyone.
Im amazed some are more willing to belive a Rasha than Rav Horowitz or Pearl Engelman
2) Mr. W never had yichud with anyone.
No? Quick! Go tell the defense team! Maybe they can use that on appeal!
“It never happened because my wife was with me through every therapy session I ever had with the defendant and any other female client.”
Oh, wait — the defense never said that, did they?
The Wolf
Please ignore iced maybe then he will go away.
A lot of people lurk on this blog who never post many even paste the links elsewhere.
I speak to those people that people who condone this behavior are in the minority and not reflective of the majority.
We are not afraid of being bullied.
Syag Lchochma -“Tell it to me, and I will tell you if its Loshon Hara”
Yes, speaking bad about Weberman is LH!
“All those who say he is innocent – If you say that we don’t have proof and shouldn’t call him guilty, I will agree, as long as you don’t call him innocent either.”
As a matter of fact, I don’t think he is guilty or innocent. They never proved their case. If they would have brought even one other victim -then I’d agree that he is guilty.
Innocent until proven guilty doesn’t apply in this country where e/o judging it up is bias.
chalilavchas -“I just spoke to a very choshuv person who has reliable information that the DA’s office has knowledge of 4 OTHER Weberman victims who spoke to them, but theyre not at liberty to divulge the names.”
As far as I’m concerned, until they get up on the witness stand and are cross-examined – their claims mean nothing. I’m not saying he’s innocent, but with the some legal knowledge that I posess, I wonder why the DA took this to trial without waiting for others to join along. The answer is simple, he knew the Jury would convict the Guy. Why? Forget about that he’s Frum, Juries almost always go after their emotions. The DA didn’t think for a second that a Middle Aged man would be believed over a young girl – in a case of – he says -she says – Poor Girl.
The fact that he was convicted on such a minute amount of circumstantial evidence and we have many cases of murderers let go even when there is much more evidence shows the failure of the Jury system.
BSD -“Although there was no forensic evidence, the circumstantial evidence is suggestive. Establishing a court system is one of the 7 mitsvos bnei noach.”
Stop with the Tzidkus of the Goyim already. Part of those 7 Mitzvos is that they have no jurisdiction over Yidden.
“There are issues that upset people-yidden and goyim alike. It does not reflect well that he did not have a license, his office was in his house rather then in a professional office(and he admits that he kept a bed in the office), she did not have a choice-neither about going to counseling in general nor about choosing Weberman in particular. The menahel decides which girls must go to counseling on threat of expulsion, and they dictate which therapist they must go to. Weberman is a first cousin to the menahel. They must give $12,000 up front. This presents itself as bullying, and would upset anybody.”
I grant you these are all problems, including the taking of Tzedaka money to purchase women’s undergarments. But e/o knows he wasn’t on trial for these things. He was on trial for molestation and nothing I’ve seen so far is even close to a “smoking gun” that makes the circumstantial evidence against him very strong.
Health
Wow. Amazing how far you go to defend this mushchis and yet when you see someone in a restaurant without a sheitel without speaking to her or her husband and knowing anything about their situation you are ready to hang them on the gallows. You really are quite the special individual. I guess sheitel is yehareg val yavor but not molesting a niddah, eishes ish, yichud, gezel from a tzeddakah and all the other things this scum of the earth did. I really don’t know where some people get their moral compass these days. There was a fair trial she was cross examined extensively. The case is as solid as it can be under the circumstances. Baruch Hashem a serial child rapist has been taken off the streets of williamsburg.
WIY -“Health –
Wow.”
I’m not going to get into it with you, but I believe the Torah says to be “Melamed Es Kol Odom (Jew only) L’caf Zecus”. This goes very far if you look in the Gemorah.
You would be correct about this woman also, but since I was talking about whether her Geyrus was Kosher, meaning she could be a Goy – there is no Inyan to be Melamed Zecus.
I just actually follow Torah priniciples, not like others that it’s just mouth exercise!
chalilavchas -“Health, you feel Weberman might be innocent?”
Wrong, I don’t know if he is innocent or guilty! I believe in a concept called Innocent Until PROVEN Guilty. Novel idea, No?
“OK, have the most attractive of your female relatives visit with the poor fellow, behind closed doors with three locks, with a video camera of course. Lets see if all he does is speak of the importance of heavy tights and danger of secular magazines.
Perhaps then you’ll have the evidence you need.”
Your Hatred to Chassidishe Men is quite obvious. Do you think that this girl was the only girl Weberman counselled? There were hundreds, if not thousands. So you/they claim they have a few more victims. After their testimonies with cross-exam I’ll decide innocent or guilty. But right now -why her did he abuse and not hundreds others? Perhaps she was out for revenge because he had evidence against her boyfriend with something called Statutory Blank?
I just actually follow Torah priniciples, not like others that it’s just mouth exercise!
To quote myself:
Chossid Shoite!!! He at the very least has the Din of a Safek Roidef, and everyone is mechuyav to be mefarsem the fact. Haven’t you heard of Gedaliah Ben Achikam?
Don’t get all “frum” trying to go kneged Halacha.
I can’t understand what you are thinking.
Chalilah: “OK, have the most attractive of your female relatives visit with the poor fellow, behind closed doors with three locks, with a video camera of course. Lets see if all he does is speak of the importance of heavy tights and danger of secular magazines.”
It would obviously be assur to visit one who is chashud for arayos in such a manner. Though, being chashud doesn’t mean one is guilty (or innocent.)
Its amazing that some think its a bigger Averiah to read People magazine than violate laws of Yichud, and someone should be put in Cherem for reading people magazine but become a hero for taking a 15 year old on a road trip
Health, kindly address why you think Weberman didnt have any interest in keeping Hilchos Yichud if he was so stringent on other Halachos, and why you think Satmar was ok with this?
Since her stockings were less than 90 Denier, she has a Din Goy. Yichud with a Goy is only a Takana of Hillel, who was an obvious Tzioni (since he traveled to Israel from Bavel), and the V’Yoel Moshe was M’vatel all Tzionish Takanas.
Pashut.
chalilavchas -“Wrong! Chassidishe Men? Only the arrogant, seemingly guilty ones, who feel they dont have to answer to anyone! Im in awe of the heroic Rosenberg. Seems to me he’s Chassidish, or do you feel he’s not a man, so he doesnt count?”
I dunno. Are you him?
“Health, kindly address why you think Weberman didnt have any interest in keeping Hilchos Yichud if he was so stringent on other Halachos, and why you think Satmar was ok with this?”
I never said this guy was an outstanding Jew. I just said I’ve not seen any proof of his guilt.
“There is no debate that he took the girl on a long trip alone, because he wanted an apology from the mother for complaining about it.”
He said he also had his wife there. How do you know he is lying?
“There is no debate on his not keeping Hilchos Yichud, only on how many locks he locked.”
Do you believe in the Torah? Even by a Soitah where the woman was warned Not to have Yichud and she did anyway with Eidim -it just makes a Sofek. So we test her. She in no way is guilty after Yichud. So how are you sure he is guilty after Yichud?
“He and they did themselves in. Aizehu Chacham HaRoeh es Hanolad.”
Sorry, they convicted him on a very weak circumstantial case. The Anthony case was extremly strong, but still she was found innocent. How do you coinicide the two?
GAW -“To quote myself:
Chossid Shoite!!! He at the very least has the Din of a Safek Roidef, and everyone is mechuyav to be mefarsem the fact. Haven’t you heard of Gedaliah Ben Achikam?
Don’t get all “frum” trying to go kneged Halacha.
I can’t understand what you are thinking.”
Simple – even if he is a Rodef – all the Torah requires is stopping him. Here at the most it’s a Sofek. I don’t know if a vindictive Freye young girl can even make it that, but let’s say she can. So he never was accused outside this setting of therapist -so the Torah wouldn’t allow him to play therapist anymore. Btw, he shouldn’t have been doing this in the firstplace. There is no reason to think he would go lure people from the streets and therefore needs to be put away for life. To make that jump is Keneged any Daas Torah.
And my personal opinion is – he’s a fool, but not a molester.
I could be proven wrong – if many more victims testify against him.
Health “I grant you these are all problems, including the taking of Tzedaka money to purchase women’s undergarments. But e/o knows he wasn’t on trial for these things. He was on trial for molestation and nothing I’ve seen so far is even close to a “smoking gun” that makes the circumstantial evidence against him very strong.”
Point well taken. I was addressing your point that there was emotional bias involved and that antisemitism played a significant role in the verdict. I am merely pointing out that this was not necessarily antisemitism. Bullying is universally despised.
Bear in mind that she was cross examined for a combined total of 14 hours by a highly competent, well paid attorney, and he could not catch her on a single inconsistency.
iced-Just out of curiosity, throughout tenach and jewish history there were despicable people-some of them wearing all shmoinah begadim (literally). On what basis do you state with such certainty that he is innocent beyond a shadow of a doubt?
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