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hello99- wow- so many postings to flagellate me ! But that’s Ok.
ust for your info , if anyone got insluted about not being clled an adult- I apologized to htem.
Concerning your other points. I do not live in eretz yisroel presently, but this idea that everyone has to learn and learn forever has crossed the oceans and it is doing tremendous damage to families and individuals. As mentioned by me and others, girls langish and cannot get a shiduch. Families wallow in poverty and ultimately cause kids to leave and go off the derech, and other probems that come from the simple fact of not working for living.
I cannot repeat myself again and I made it clear that it is not the idea of financing some people that I object to but the indiscriminate use of this fact. If you feel differently, so be it.
As far as money for university scholarships- scholarships don’t go on forever and ,whether you like it or not, the people who use these scholarships use them to get some kind of education to get a job.
As mentioned by me and others, girls langish and cannot get a shiduch
But somehow the boys get married.
You’ve totally misplaced the blame, due to your anti-kollel bias.
ROB – I personally believe in Kollel, but right now with the influx of Bochurim coming to YWN Bain Hazmanim to post their pseudo-intelligence – I’m starting to wonder. Perhaps there are too many guys sitting and learning all day? What happenned to 10 Battlanim? They really need to stop all this vacation – Yom Tovim, summer, etc. If the Yeshiva world wants to consider themselves as Working in Torah, then learn as much as a worker works – no Baal Habus gets so much vacation from work.
kollel or the army? neither. leave israel.
All this resentment for the people who are keeping our little earth spinning on its axis….
The question is simple enough, army or kollel, to me, its not one or the other. some are built to learn, some are built to fight, others are built to work – some to question others. No two people on this planet have the same tafkid and so this question cannot be answered on a general scale. Thats just my humble opinion…. Pseudo intelligence.
daasyochid: actually, youn are wrong. there are plenty of boys who are still not married. Alternatively- the families go into major “hock’ to the boy,regardless whether they deserve it.
ROB – I personally believe in Kollel, but right now with the influx of Bochurim coming to YWN Bain Hazmanim to post their pseudo-intelligence – I’m starting to wonder. Perhaps there are too many guys sitting and learning all day? What happenned to 10 Battlanim? They really need to stop all this vacation – Yom Tovim, summer, etc. If the Yeshiva world wants to consider themselves as Working in Torah, then learn as much as a worker works – no Baal Habus gets so much vacation from work.
Like This.
More distortion of the facts. Army guys don’t go into the barracks at nite to sleep? So the yeshiva guys also go to the dorm to sleep. Army guys are always on the road going home for the weekends and most of them are hitching. Yeshiva guys it depends on the Yeshiva. The ones where Shabbos is part of the Yeshiva, they get off on certain Shabbosim, not everyone.
I think it’s you who’s distorting the facts. Not every IDF combat soldier sleeps in a barracks at night. Many of them are up all night, and combat soldiers have some variation of an “8 hours on, 8 hours off” schedule. That means they are on duty 16 hours a day. Do many kollel guys learn that many hours in a day?
Not everyone is “always going home for the weekends,” either. Many only get home every second or third weekend.
If IDF army guys are hitching, they face a pretty hefty fine if caught by the MPs. It’s actually illegal for anyone in the IDF to tremp, in uniform or not. (source of info: my IDF child)
Many Kollel guys have even less than that amount of time off. And by your own comments you admit that most IDF guys have much more off time than that.
difference is, most serious yeshivaleit us their down time to rest up so that next seder can knack, and dont consider it as “time off”. i know from my experience that rabbeim will give shmuzim about how to correctly use bein hasdarim etc. its not free time, its a continuation of how to serve Hashem. ill understand if the daas baalibatim here cant understand this, but its true by the serious bnei torah
takahmamash –
Now you respond? I posted this days ago.
“I think it’s you who’s distorting the facts. Not every IDF combat soldier sleeps in a barracks at night. Many of them are up all night, and combat soldiers have some variation of an “8 hours on, 8 hours off” schedule. That means they are on duty 16 hours a day. Do many kollel guys learn that many hours in a day? Not everyone is “always going home for the weekends,” either. Many only get home every second or third weekend.”
Yes, let’s see who is distorting the facts. This is the Combat soldier. Most soldiers aren’t combat soldiers.
From “hello99”:
“Should we change our entire lifestyle to accommodate the 6% of secular Israelis who put their lives on the line, because they are ignorant regarding the value of our contribution? And what about the 94% of secular Israelis who either don’t serve at all or serve in non-combat roles?”
“If IDF army guys are hitching, they face a pretty hefty fine if caught by the MPs. It’s actually illegal for anyone in the IDF to tremp, in uniform or not.”
That’s nice. They must not have a lot of MPs, since they all hitch. One trick that they do is stand by the bus stops and rides pull over for them. Next thing you’ll tell me is this isn’t called hitchhiking. Or the guys in uniform aren’t going home for the weekends – they really are on undercover missions.
Toi: It goes back to my original post on the thread. If the Kollel Bochrim were using their time during Bain HaZmanim like the Gedolim suggest (as some, but not most, Kollel Yugelight do), then they would have no need to worry about the Medinah drafting them, and the Baal Habatim would support them as well. No one begrudges someone like Rav Chaim who learns all day every day from not joining the army! (Obviously, besides for age).
As my Rov has told me: There is no shortage of money in Klal Yisroel. People would rather spend it on something that produces. If there were more Yissachars, then the Zevulans out there already would be willing to support.
im not sure i follow.
“The problem is not that we have an army, but that those who learn Torah for the protection of other Yidden don’t learn with enough Hasmadah to merit that sort of protection. The reason why we need an army is not because of the Arabs, but due to our own Chesronos. Just look at everone taking Bain HaZmanim! Bain Hazmanim is not to vacation, but to learn a different Limud then your normal Sedarim (famous quote from Rav Gifter), but to keep the Hasmada up. Time is wasting, and there is much work to be done!”
Most Yeshivaleit are not like this. Some are. Serious Beni Torah are not the problem, and I think even ROB would agree that they should continue learning. It is the other 85% that is the problem, and creates a Shem Ra for the real learners.
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