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Do you think that polygamy is a good thing or a bad thing? If it would be an option to bring back polygamy would you be in favor of it?
Most of my wives are against it.
I think it should be legal but I don’t recommend it.
Old joke:
Q: What’s the penalty for bigamy?
A: Two wives.
The Wolf
Old joke:
Q: What’s the penalty for bigamy?
A: Two mothers-in-law.
Is there anything halachically wrong with it? If so it should be muttar wihtout question. Everything that is not assur on a strict halachic basis should be allowed.
Well there’s a Cherem on it. And a Bittul Bein Adam L’Chaveiro towards the first wife.
A rebbi of mine once said that the best argument against polygamy is Sefer Bereishis.
I heard that some communities are pushing it because these days a family can’t live on one salary.
The status of the Herem of Rabeinu Gershom is debateable, even among Ashkenazim – so if the western countries legalize polygamy (as is increasingly a possibility due to the rejection of the traditional canon law rule that marriage involves one man and one woman – they already rejected the part about marriage lasting until death) it will reopen the discussion. Many have argued the Herem can’t permanently change halacha, is only applicabhle to Europe, and doesn’t apply to countries where polygamy is lawful by secular law.
Halacha requires that the first wife consents. That would eliminate most abuse.
Financially few men could afford to support two wives, however in the modern economy wives are often self-supporting, and the “sister wife” (a Mormon term) could provide reliable child care allowing the other wife to fully engage in a career.
For yungerleit, two wives is a necessity. You can’t expect the boy to make it on only one salary
ENOUGH WITH THE JOKES. The Supreme Court rules on same-sex marriage in the near future, and if they support it that suggests the ban on polygamy will also fail. The “professoriate” (law school professors) are already writing books on the subject. It is quite possible that in the near future the law in the United States will allow polygamy, so we need to think how this impacts on us.
akuperma: Federal court in Utah has already overturned Utah’a ban on polgamy (a bit over a year ago) on a basis that would be applicable to all such bans.
Rav Avigdor Miller said (and reprinted in one of his recent Q&A seforim) that it is possible that one day contemporary rabbonim will end the cherem. The Vilna Gaon also said he was in favor of ending it.
akuperma: It doesn’t. It’s still Assur.
It would certainly solve the shidduch crisis.
akuperma: Federal court in Utah has already overturned Utah’a ban on polgamy (a bit over a year ago) on a basis that would be applicable to all such bans.
I believe you’re wrong on this. A Federal court did rule that a part of the statue was unconstitutional — but it was the part on cohabitation. The part actually banning polygamy is still intact. In short, you can live with as women as you like, but you can still only be married (legally) to one.
The Wolf
Anyone who’s really in favour of it ain’t gonna admit it here 🙂
“It would certainly solve the shidduch crisis.”
Not for the men
Why is polygamy assur? Its a minhag- not halacha. And for some Jewish communities its not even a minhag.
“It would certainly solve the shidduch crisis.”
Not for the men
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/defining-the-shidduch-crisis
quoted from other thread:
daas yochid: “I have sympathy for both girls and boys who are having a hard time.”
Reb Wolf: The cohabitation issue is the most relevant part of the law, as a practical matter. The only part of the law that was upheld is that which bars filing for State marriage licenses with more than one spouse. But the polygamous communities in America as a matter of practice do not file for multiple marriage licenses anyways. They simply live together in religious marriages without filing with the State. And the law that previously technically prevented that, is what was overturned.
(It should be noted that even before it was overturned that law was rarely enforced unless the person was also violating other laws such as abuse of a minor. The case that got it overturned was of a man with multiple wives that made his lifestyle very public as part of a TV show. The Attorney General tried to prosecute, even though he violated no other laws, and that got the law declared unconstitutional.)
“Sister-Wife” may be the Mormon term, but there is a reason that the Torah calls her a ???.
Historically, even in the time prior to the Cherem, it was not common practice.
Practically, it is a very bad idea for many reasons.
I know it’s a side point, but I must protest the “jokes” employed by some posters to denigrate entire communities of people who have dedicated themselves to Torah, even if their dedication does not measure up to that of the tailors in previous generations. The sole purpose of these “jokes” is to undermine the respect we should have for people who spend significant amounts of time learning Torah.
I know it’s a side point, but I must protest the “jokes” employed by some posters to denigrate entire communities of people who have dedicated themselves to Torah, even if their dedication does not measure up to that of the tailors in previous generations. The sole purpose of these “jokes” is to undermine the respect we should have for people who spend significant amounts of time learning Torah.
My joke was simply a joke about having two wives. It wasn’t meant to undermine anyone’s community, respect of Torah or those who study it. I certainly didn’t mean to offend anyone by it – I truly thought it to be a harmless jest. My sincere apologies.
The Wolf
No.
I have enough tzaros without a Tzara.
quoted from other thread:
daas yochid: “I have sympathy for both girls and boys who are having a hard time.”
I do. There are numerous factors which can cause someone to have a hard time in shidduchim (all ratzon Hashem, of course, with various hashkafic perspectives on how bechirah factors in), but the inequality of numbers stacks the deck more heavily against the women.
newbee
“Is there anything halachically wrong with it? If so it should be muttar wihtout question. Everything that is not assur on a strict halachic basis should be allowed.”
That’s quite a different position than the one you took in the halachic dinner thread.
Wolf, I’m sure the poster wasn’t referring to your joke.
Your joke was merely offensive to women.
🙂
Old joke:
Q: What’s the penalty for bigamy?
A: Two mothers-in-law.
The Wolf
RebYid- I can’t believe you used Wolf’s signature, he can sue you, you know 🙂
Caveats.
There has never been polygamy in a country with a technologically advanced economy. The closest was Utah in the 19th century, at for a while Utah led the world in terms of women entering professions and having career. It would be an interesting experiment.
If the “shiduch” crisis is caused by a shortage of frum men (which suggest frum men go off the derekh more than women, or that most Baalei Tseuvah are female – and I doubt that either is true), polygamy would solve the problem. But the problem probably has to do with the economy causing men to be slow to want to start families they can’t support.
Polygamy would not be common, absent a shortage of men, since few men could support multiple housewives. The exceptions would be the superrich (of which there aren’t many), or if something such as a war kills off most men (very rare, especially for Jews).
Any change in law would allow multiple wives and multiple husbands, meaning the government definition of a family would be wildly different than our own. This would be interesting as well.
I hear you, I wonder if the average woman today would prefer to have a tzara or be single.
adocs: Ha, I was being sarcastic here
I know I can be sued, but there’s nothing I can do about it now.
It’s so ironic that polygamy only refers to MEN marrying more than one spouse. I guarantee you if the situation were reversed, the men would be up in arms!
I would be opposed to it. The Torah doesn’t asser it, but neither does it encourage it. It only defines the Halachos that are required to be fulfilled when there IS a second wife.
I know I can be sued, but there’s nothing I can do about it now.
I’ll have your attorney contact mine. I’ll probably settle out of court for a pastrami sandwich. 🙂
The Wolf
polygamy only refers to MEN
Technically, polygamy refers to both.
Polygyny is the term for having more than one wife. Polyandry is the term for having more than one husband. Polygamy is a gender-neutral term.
The Wolf
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