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DY: Yep, and this goes back to what I said on another thread. It’s true that he has Rishonim that back him up. However, those Rishonim have clearly not been accepted as being even worth mentioning in “standard Jewish thought”, which really is what determines the Halachah in these cases.
Nope not trolling
Accordng to multiple Rishonim, belief in an ancient universe does not automatically brand me a non believer.
I find that decades of peer reviews science and carbon dating support the conclusion that the planet is a wee bit older that 5772 years.
But that’s just me.
I second Sam2’s statement, we follow what our Gedolim say, there were Tannaim that said Bar Kochva was Moshiach yet he wasn’t just because Rishonim hold the view doesn’t mean we have to follow them as opposed to the Rishonim that say the opposite
secondly, I consider the act of trolling any comment meant to get people riled up and argue against you, which in essence is what you were trying to do
There is an answer that satisfies both the Jewish date regarding the age of the world, and the secular view of millions of years. The sun and the moon were not created until day 4 of creation, hence 24 hour ‘days’ as we know them, did not exist until day 4. So how long was a ‘day’ for the first 3 days? According to Hashem’s time frame, or perhaps, NO time frame, millions of (our) earth years could have passed…
INSTEAD BE A JEW. HOPE THIS HELPS.
Ready now: Many people have serious Kashyas. It’s hard to say reality is one way when Eineinu Ro’os that it’s different. So there are legitimate answers within the framework of accepted Jewish thought that allows people to resolve these contradictions. Just because the contradictions don’t bother you doesn’t make anyone who they do bother any less of a Ma’amin than you are. And I am very far from an expert, but I have been told that Al Pi Sod many held of a P’shat in Ma’aseh B’reishis like Schroeder’s long before he came around.
“Many people have serious Kashyas. It’s hard to say reality is one way when Eineinu Ro’os that it’s different.”
What do you mean by “Eineinu Ro’os”? All of scientifically accepted fact is merely a series of guesses (albeit educated guesses) based solely upon observation. It has been wrong before many, many times. Remember when the world was flat? Or when the earth was the center of the universe? How about when all cognitive activity took place in the heart? None of these “scientific facts” were true, and who says that today’s are any different?
The Torah, on the other hand, is a description of the world by its ineffable, infallible Creator. He knows how the world works because He made it. He is never wrong.
Ready now: I agree that much of the scientific community has an agenda of showing that HKBH doesn’t necessarily need to exist. However, apparent contradictions are there. And if some need theories like Schroeder’s to resolve them, then it’s very hard to have a claim against those people.
And where do you have PROOF that the solar system is geocentric, There is PROOF the Solar System is heliocentric.
And one of the Proofs is ironically Bircas Hahammah. Birchas Hamahham has to occur in the position the Sun was in on the first day of Creation, it also must occur on Tekufath Nissan which is supposed to be the First day of Spring. Tekufath Nissan is April 4.
However because of a mistake in the jewish calculation of the Jewish Calender. Hillel II calculated the Solar Year as 365 Days 5 Hours 55 Mins, The Actual Solar Year is 365 Days 5 Hours 49 Mins. Over 2000 Years those extra 6 mins per year have added up to about 2 weeks.
Since April 4 is the halachic Spring, many times Peseach actually occurs in winter due to this error (I dont think it ever occurs before march 20-21 which is the correct date currently of the Vernal Equinox
“zahavasdad”- in your enthusiasm for the topic of ” World Events”
you have just given the proof for geocentricity (earth as centre, sun and planets moving around earth)!
Please re-read your source article and you will find the word “geocentric” as it is there.
What you wrote in previous post(above) about Bircas Hahammah is based on the certainty of geocentricity and not on anything else.
Please make a formal admission. Thank you.
Ready now: I didn’t respond once, but I will this time. You actually believe the Sun revolves around the Earth? I have heard ways to talk about it so that from our perspective or whatever the World revolving around the Sun is a true statement, but I thought people who honestly believed that stopped existing in the 17th century at the latest. Who knew?
sam2 and zahavasdad: Bircas Hahammah is all about the sun travelling in a circuit for 28 years and returning to the exact same position that Hashem placed it in the sky when He created it at first.
We say, once every 28 years, just erev Pesach, in a specified way, “ose ma’ase bereshis”. This is geocentric – earth as centre, sun and planets going around earth,and this “looks” or “appears” exactly the same in the relative motions of the planets and sun to each other in the solar system as the “secular” motions, but if you “pin” earth instead of the sun at the centre,everthing that happens in the sky still happens. There was a website showing the actual movements,but I haven’t been able to track it down – that was some time ago -maybe it is back – just don’t whathever you do navigate to some anti-Torah sites!
NASA uses the calculations based on geocentricity to send space ships up.
Bircas Hammah is based on SOLAR not LUNAR cycle, While it was on Erev Pesach in 2009, it was not in 1981. If if the solar system is Geocentric the math doesnt work, It only works if its Helicentric.
Bircas Hahammah is supposed to occur on the Vernal Equinox however because of mistakes in the Calender The jewish Calender is now about 2 weeks off, If it was a Geocetric it would occur on the Vernal Equinox
FYI Just because there is something said on the internet doesnt mean its true, so just because there is a website that claims the solar system is geocentric doesnt mean its true
The earth still revolves around its axis, in a fixed position as Tehillim say.
We are all here to learn, everyone has some hidden virtue:
The sun cannot be stationary, fixed (as the heliocentrists say! Has v sholom ) AND at the same time be the concern of Bichas Hahammah for having moved one complete enormous circuit in the total time of 28 Jewish -calculated years through the sky ! Heliocentric means the sun is fixed and at the center , has v sholom. Maybe this will help:
According to Birchas Hahammah , the sun takes 28 complete Jewish – calculated years to move around the sky to get back to the exact same place that Hashem put it when He originally created the sun. So the 28 year cycle is based on the moon months – chodoshim, and the seasonal changes across 365.25 days and is NOT based on what the secular world understands to be an imaginary circuit of the earth around the sun.
Ready now: The Earth moves. Everyone knows that. Denying that is just denying reality. The Sun also moves. As does our entire Solar System, as does the entire Milky Way galaxy.
And Zahavasdad isn’t wrong. If we still had Kiddush Hachodesh Al Pi R’iyah and had Beis Din be M’chasheiv the Ibbur we would have to correct our system by a few days. Because while 365.25 days is very close to the amount of time it takes the Earth to circle the Sun (hmm, I can see a problem developing here), it is not precise. And therefore a Shanah, as you call it, will move farther away from the actual seasons by a negligible amount each year. But after 2000 years, those amounts add up and we end up off by a few days. The T’kufah is off by a tiny bit more each year. The Gregorian calendar adjusts for this better than our calendar (not that that’s a problem with our calendar, C”V; it’s just a reality that this long Galus has brought us). Thus, the equinoxes and solstices are not determined by the secular calendar. Rather, that calendar took those days and set them at points throughout the year (March 21, June 21, September 21, December 21) and bases its calendar around those days, and not the other way around as you seem to have assumed.
It does NOT take 365.25 days for the Earth to Circle the Sun, that implied 365 Days 6 Hours
It actually takes 365 Days 5 Hours 49 Min 46 Seconds for a solar year
That extra 11 Mins sounds like nothing, but over time it does add up, Its currently about an extra 2-3 weeks added
And its not a THEORY that the earth revolves around the sun, its a FACT ,
There are other proofs besides Birchas Hahmmah, Its all in the Math, For example the reason we can compute Eclipses because we know the exact location of the sun and moon. The Next Soalr Eclipse will occur in Israel on Nov 3, 2013 and the next one in NY will occur on August 21, 2017 (This will be Total in many parts of the US …I am looking forward to actually visitng a place where it will be total)
That the earth revolves around its axis in a 24 hour period is a seperate issue than the earth revolving around the Sun
Zahavasdad has not even acknowledged that the Jewish calendar is Lunisolar!
sam2 I have clearly written in the previous post:
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