Working parent letter: two implementable ideas I posted

Rebbis and Morahs have the obligation to come on time every day when class is scheduled to begin — and do! Probably much better than secretaries.

And if someone is envious of the “great” benefits of being a rebbi/teacher, they can switch jobs and become a teacher.

Yitzchok2: You are 100% right that ‘EVERY PERSON WHO WORKS IN A SCHOOL IN NO MATTER WHAT CAPACITY MUST GET PAID ON TIME!’ However, this would not change the concerns mentioned here. It’ll just mean a pay raise, not more days added to school.

Changing a childs school is not a simple matter. As a close friend of mine said “there are so many schools out there yet there are none”.

I would like to see the books of how my money is used, but i still highly doubt this’ll change the issue of either teachers payroll or the issue of too many off days.

In your post you wrote: “Once all teachers are paid on time teachers will be glad to put up thir succah at 12 o’clock at night like every other person does.” This seems a bit strange to me, the sukkah will go up whether one has a week off before sukkos or no day off!

“Once teachers are paid on time they will work even harder to come up with a plan to teach the few kids who show up on isru chag.” Like i mentioned above, i highly doubt a raise in pay will affect the amount of days off given.

Miritchka. I can say with near 100% certainty that you work for a frum person, the corporate norm is more than 5 days. As such, your employer should work with you. I can say with even more certainty that your social circle includes some combination of parents, inlaws, siblings, nephews, nieces, other relatives, friends or neighbors who can watch your children for you on isru chag, certainly their older sons and daughters who have no school can do that for you.

shmoel: I am not envious of rebbeim and morahs, if i was, i wouldnt have hesitated to become one myself. And when one has a perk at a job it should not come at the expense of paying customers. I want to know that if i am paying for 10 months of school, that i get it (which we don’t) I have alot of respect for rebbeim/morahs, and its not their fault that there is alot of parents that are disappointed with the amount of days off.

Whiteberry: Thank you for your response! you are right that i work for a frum company and that is why i have off for yom tov itself. For chol hamoed and the many other days that the schools give off, i have to use my vacation days and when i use those up, i must pay a babysitter. And once again you are correct that, b”h i have parents, in laws, and siblings – who have jobs or if not, they have, ky”h, their own brood and cannot watch my children. Neices and nephews- too young to babysit. Neighbors – actually not that many that i would trust with my children and the ones that i do trust, are working. Besides, isru chag is not my main concern as my husbands kollel doesnt start on isru chag so he is watching them today.

DaasYachid: I’m sure some rabbeim/morahs do use their days off to tutor or try to get some temporary job to earn some more money. However, believe it or not, i have very similar responsibilities as as they and i dont get that time off, i still work a part time job at night and yes, without that part time job, i would not be able to pay my tuition and mortgage as well as the many other bills. Yes, that “measly” few hundred dollars that i or others would make from working those extra few days, is for tuition. Its very likely that others do the same.

Optomotrists, dental assistants, law clerks, law professors, and therapists work on average less than 40 hours a week and have a very nice amount of off days. I think there ought to be a law forcing these workers to work longer and have less off-days! And for no more pay than they are already getting!

Where is the outrage here against these thuggish optomotrists, law professors, law clerks, therapists, etc. by all the big-mouths outraged only against yeshivas, rebbeim and morahs???

miritchka: Ask yourself how much an actual babysitter would cost you, then complain about your tuition. If you are “disappointed”, don’t forget that your husband has a chiyuv to teach his children. The school does not.

Gavra:

You wrote, “don’t forget that your husband has a chiyuv to teach his children. The school does not.” You are half right. The father of the children has the chiyuv of chinuch (not to exclude the mother, but that’s for another discussion). The school absolutely does have a chiyuv, and that is the only justifiable reason for the existence of any mosdos of chinuch. Moreover, the mosdos are being paid big money (big for the parents footing the bill), and their obligation is to provide the service that they obligated themselves to by accepting the contract with thge parents. What is angering to parents is when the yeshivos and schools have no problem blaming parents for anything and everything, but when a rebbe or teacher falls short, they defend it with all sorts of lame excuses. And no one has raised the abusiveness exhibited by some rebbes, teachers, and menahalim. No, gavra, the world of chinuch is imperfect (as we all are), and to throw all responsibility on parents is inaccurate, ignorant, and unfair.

Is it fair when the tuition contract obligates a parent to pay money for a service, but does not obligate the school to provide it? I’d like to see that tested in a court one day.

Most college professors nowadays are Adjuncts and not tenured professors. Tenured Professors are the ones who get paid for about 20 hours of work a week and cannot be fired and have all the benefits.

In order to save money colleges and universities are hiring Adjuncts more and more, they are paid Per Diem, may or may not get Health Benefits so if they dont work they do not get paid.

abcd2: I suggest that you open a school that charges less tuition. Otherwise you are blowing hot air, but not solving a thing.

Schools are expensive, and you get what you pay for. You can send your child to a school in Williamsburg for less, if that is your only concern. Or even cheaper is your local public school.

Our schools are communal Tzedakas and for to long we have not been organized enough to oversee how best we can help them and they help us.

They are NOT communal. If they were, they would have to accept everyone, which they don’t.

miritchika: Law clerks, law professors and dental assistants are NOT paid per session. They are salaried.

gavra_at_work: You’re right that yeshivas are not reduced babysitting. The point is that I am paying tuition, an exhorbitant amount i might add, and on top of that i have to pay for additional babyisitting for the many many days off that the schools give. As an aside, as mentioned above, babysitting is alot more sometimes. Being that i do not have the knowledge necessary to be a full time morah to my children, but we do have the chiyuv to teach them, we send them to a yeshiva/BY. I cant just stop sending them.

So vote with your feet and brain. If your husband is in Kollel, he can teach all of the Torah topics. Try a homeschooling program (maybe an online one), they do make it easier, and teach yourself the secular material (at least until high school, it shouldn’t be difficult).

Or as I suggested to ABCD, try opening a school.

I cannot envy the position of the yeshiva administrator. The responsibilities are many and great, and the rewards are limited. What is perhaps a serious deficiency, as suggested by the OP and many of the comments, is the absence of input from the parents. The yeshivos are eager to take our money, but not our ideas, concern for our needs, or any other input. That is angering, and the backlash is obvious. There is no easy answer. To protest against yeshivos is politically unpopular. The dignity of meeting with the powers that be is accorded only to the major donors, not the average parent (even if payiong full tuition). The modification of the system to be a true communnal organization dedicated to the betterment and safety of the children is long overdue, but will only evolve into that inthe long term. Much needs to change.

Some have mentioned it here. We have a society that frowns upon the baal babos and cherishes the kollel lifestyle. Exceptions are made for the major patrons of our communal organizations and yeshivos. We choked our ability to produce the incomes needed to sustain our community. And we are appropriately questioning the wisdom of this. I seriously doubt that Rav Aharon Kotler ZT”L and other Roshei Yeshivos intended the kollel to yield this outcome.

Together with today’s economic downturn (though it preceded it by years) is the growing thirst for luxury by the average Yid. We must all have the latest in gadgets, vacations and trips, the extras at our simchos, etc. We are seriously in the red, and yeshivos only turn to us, with government out of the picture today. And it is a disgrace to send our kids to work where they feed the system – they must stay dependent in kollel and drain it further. These same individuals become menahalim and grab what they can without regard for the working class, as per the years of such chinuch. There’s much to change, and it won’t happen quickly.

rabbi dass yochid – s friend of mine’s sitch….

both parents working-

every time there is an off day they must hire expensive babysitting . this is very hard on their over stretched budget, and then they get milked for their tution money. Now if they wud have had school ON THOSE DAYS they can pass that extra $1000 on to the yeshiva.

2 which rebbe has a tutoring job from sept 1 -sept 10 or jun 19-jun 31 ?. instead he is spending his scarce money on entertaining his own bored kids. (CHUCKY CHEESES, NEW CD’S ,LANCASTER)

a rebbe works for nothing His meager salary is just to cover living expenses. which it falls short on –agreed . BUT AGAIN -THOSE EXTRA OFF DAYS DONT HELP THE PROBLEM -THEY ONLY WORSEN IT -AS I EXPLAINED

Gavra:

I urge you to review the contracts with schools and yeshivos. I have yet to see one that spells out the responsibility of the school. All I have ever seen is the financial responsibility of the parent, and often other terms such as adhering to certain standards of tznius, not having television or internet access, etc. Nowhere in writing is there a statement by the school accepting to keep the child in a safe environment, providing the range of educational services needed (noting exceptions for special services the school may not have), and maintaining communication with the parents on any matters relating to school policy, changes, schedules, or disciplinary issues. The complete absence of all of this is what makes me suspect that the contracts might well be dismissed by a court (I’m not a lawyer).

You said it yourself. Not a Lawyer. Besides, no one is making you sign.

The way yeshivos raise funds (except for tuition)is by holding themselves up to the public as communal organizations. The trouble is that our yeshivos are competing. If a talmid would need extra time and effort from the hanhala, he is likely to be considered a liability. Let the competition have that. And we have hundreds of bochurim and girls without yeshivos or schools.

Of course it does, just like any other 990. OOPS, Yeshivos don’t file 990s. You are not Mechuyav to give, so don’t. Once again, I suggest that you open a school.

I interact with mechanchim regularly, and I must say that there are some great ones out there. However, I have yet to encounter a yeshiva that can attest to all of its staff being trained, supervised, and true metzuyanim in the field. There are a few that aspire to that, but most are preoccupied with the quality of the applicants, not the quality of the staff. And that is worse than sad. Those who complain about the salaries are correct, but it is the exceptional rebbe that deserves the higher range salary. Unfortunately, no one will judge the salary by the quality of the rebbe, only by tenure, family size, and relationship to the menahel.

Your point? I don’t know of any field where every worker is above average.

One rebbe noted on Simchas Torah that he met up with a former talmid of his, now married with children. He had last seen this talmid in his 5th grade class 20 some years ago. The talmid approached him and thanked him for being his rebbe way back when. The rebbe said it made his day.

Do you remember your 5th grade rebbe? If so, why? These are the questions that help us recognize the true mechanchim, not the “minimum wage” rebbe who defaulted into chinuch after years of kollel with no training for a career.

I agree with the last point, but that is a bigger societal problem than yeshiva tuition. Besides, if you pay well, you get really good rabbaim who ARE Metzuyanim. You just have to pay for it.

DEAR moderator.

please edit the name of the yeshiva from my recent post. thanks

“About the 10-12 month issue, I believe that there are a certain amount of days that a school must be open and that number is in a 10 month school year range.”

In NYC the Board of Ed. mandates 180 days of schooling a year. Check your school calendar.

The biggest problem I have with most comments in this thread is the notion that parents are paying customers with the school providing a service. That is absolutely false. The parents and teachers are full partners.

It does, but only in very special schools where the pricipal realizes his great achrayus, not when the pricipal sees his school as the “family business”.

In NYC the Board of Ed. mandates 180 days of schooling a year. Check your school calendar.

Limudei Kodesh only days legally valid towards the 180 days count.

Marbehshalom,

I didn’t mean that a rebbe tutors during his “vacation” days. I meant that many tutor on a nightly basis, besides for preparation, so that other necessities, such as shopping, home maintenance, etc. are taken care of during those days off.

I’m not trying to minimize the problem; we all know how expensive it is to raise a family, and tuition is the biggest expense for many. There’s a reason why it’s been called the “tuition crisis”.

But don’t make mechanchim the scapegoats. They are actually, for the most part, victims just as much as parents.

I don’t know what the solution is; I don’t particularly think it’s anyone specific’s fault, it’s just an unpleasant fact of life. But nothing is gained by blaming the rebbeim and moros.

If you feel this way about the school you send your children to, then you are sending your children to the wrong school.

Agreed. B”H he doesn’t in my case, but other schools seem to be this way (from what I read here).

Partnership between parents and yeshivos is an ideal and often exists in only theory. It is sometimes referenced in the application literature, and it is sometimes mentioned in passing at PTA and at fund raising events. In reality, it is a concept that is problematic for many reasons.

Many parents claim to be too busy to reach out to rebbes and teachers. Many claim their efforts to reach out go unanswered.

Many teachers and rebbes claim they do not have time available to connect with parents. They are often not paid for their class preparation time, and have their own family responsibilities or second jobs. Some claim that parents are not eager to partner with them.

It is also quite common that the connections between faculty and parents are made mostly when there is trouble, and that no one wants to answer the phone when the other is calling. To make a general statement of who is at fault is useless and likely inaccurate.

“Constructive criticism” is a nice term. I would not hold my breath. Parents will rarely offer it, and it will also not be well received. Anyone that I tried to give it to, rejected it out of hand, claiming that I don’t know their field of expertise and that they do. Parents are usually venting their anger, and their criticism is rarely constructive. The problems go in all directions. Creating the interactive partnershp is a major challenge. It is an art, and only training in healthy parenting and good chinuch will make this likely.

Abcd: Wrong. The biggest increase in cost will not be electricity or utilities. It will be the increased wages to the teachers who will be asked to stay longer hours. That will have to be paid for by the parents.

If the teachers don’t get paid extra for the extra hours (5% more hours per year is a 5% increase in salary to ALL affected teachers and other school employees needed during those additional hours and/or days), by the school increasing parental tuition to FULLY cover the additional wages and utilities, it will never happen.

Period.

THERE is a yeshiva in the 5 towns area which has a dismissal for the little boys at 11.15 on fridays. GEVALT, how can someone some one pay their exurberant tuitions and work with an 11.15 friday dismissal.

I am all for increasing the salaries of Rebbeim in Yeshivos. They are woefully underpaid and routinely paid late.