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I will repeat here what I commented on another post the other day,
The concept of someone spending all their day in yeshiva (hopefully) learning to the exclusion of any effort of making a living and supporting a family was basically non existent until about 40 years ago. The fact that the burden of support was placed on the girl’s father head was another new phenomenon. In Europe only the outstanding individuals who were potential community leaders were privileged to this arrangement.
What has this system produced over the last number of years for a number of people.
Fathers in law in debt over their head.
Working wives working full time and taking care of their children as well while their spouses spend their days in the coffeerooms..
Entire communities subsisting on every government program they can play the system for.
The attitude that work is beneath the man’s station and is to be looked down upon.
This is what we have come to.
The notion that a married individual can both work and learn has become a belief as to how mainstream Judaism is to be practiced.
No question that many men do devote many hours a day to their studies but overall there is definitely something that just does not quite pass the smell test.
Sorry.
Second to last sentence should read:
The notion that a married individual can both work and learn has become practically a heretical belief as to how mainstream Judaism is to be practiced.
Ploni, this thread isn’t about debating this topic. In fact, singleme is looking for a *working* guy.
Not every thread here has to be made into a fight…
Workers/learners have always existed, exist now, and always will. Some day we’ll get back to basics, and implement the teachings of Avos 2:2. Though expenses are high in many frum areas, the US labor market is very flexible, and it is still possible to work part time or just 40 hours. Working hours are on average higher than in European countries, but far less than in Japan or Korea. If people are determined to pay the bills on fewer hours to make time for learning, it can be done.
“Rabban Gamliel, son of Rabbi Yehudah HaNasi, said, ‘It is good to combine the study of Torah with an occupation, for the effort required by them both keeps sin out of mind, while all Torah study, not combined with work, will in the end cease and leads to sin.'” Avos 2:2.
thats why I dont donate to yeshivas that encourage even weak not strong guys to learn perpetually, plus many see me as 2nd best.
singleme:
I assume you want someone who is currently taking the necessary steps that lead to a decent career. If you’re looking in the lower to mid-twenties range, generally that means he is NOT working now; it means he’s in college (or some other sort of apprenticeship or training). Most boys who are serious about their yiddishkeit will learn full-time for a few years after high school and only then start college. Since it takes at the very least 4 years of college (undergrad, graduate, training, exams, etc.) before the guy can start working in his chosen profession, he will usually not be working by the time he starts shidduchim.
If this is the kind of guy you’re looking for, you can try the rabbis in various Queens yeshivos: Madraigas Ha’adam (Hillcrest), Chofetz Chaim or Ohr Hachaim (Kew Gardens Hills), Sh’or Yoshuv (Far Rockaway) or Zichron Aryeh (Bayswater). Maybe Landers (also Kew Gardens Hills) would work for you.
I don’t know if I have permission to write names in this forum but I know for a fact that rebbeim in some of these places are constantly meeting with girls for shidduchim purposes.
CH3-CH2-OH (or should we call you Mr. Alcohol)
There are Yeshivous where you learn during the day and go to College at night, like Chaim Berlin etc., where a person in low 20’s can already be working in his profession. I was learning until 22 and started working prior to my graduation (had one semester left) in my profession at that age. So if a boy graduates by 17/18, goes to Israel for a year (receives college credits) comes back and go to Yeshiva and college he should have a job by 22-23 years old.
anon1m0us,
You totally misread part of CH3’s post.
anon1m0us:
You’re right. When I said that the serious boys learn for a few years full-time after high school, I was being a little narrow-minded; I was really just referring to my circles (queens guys on the more yeshivish side).
Since the yeshivos I’ve been in stress bais midrash and kolel learning, most of the good guys will go with the flow and do the full time learning for a few years before starting college. That’s just the way I’ve seen it.
By the way, I’m a little curious (and a little jealous!). What field were you studying that you were able to get a job before graduation?
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