Tznius Support Group PLEASE WOMEN ONLY, even reading

Hey NY Mom – way to go!!!

As I have said before, I firmly believe that teenage girls need to be told that very often their choice of attire is simply not attractive. What is the purpose of dressing a certain way? Meaning am I trying to get negative attention? Or am I trying to get ANY attention?

Oh how I wish those girls could hear what the boys that they try to “show off” for are saying…

Dressing stylishly is ok with me – I also take a certain pride in how I look. The difference being I am not wearing very form fitting clothes, or flashy styles. Other areas of tzius, well I am a work in progress

good job NY MOM! that’s really a ‘step’ in the right direction! A small piece of advice for anyone who is looking to buy something new- ARE YOU TRYING TO IMPRESS THE SHECHAINA OR THE SHECHINA?

plonisalmonis, how would your parents react if, when they asked for your help, you answered, “I’d be happy to do it, please wait a moment while I put on tights”?

plonisalmonis –

Firstly, Kol Hakavod!

Secondly, Would you wear tights/socks the whole day, this way if you have to go out for a minute or answer the door, you can?

One thing which always bothers me is when people’s chumros are a strain on other people, or even on other ruchniyus areas of the machmir himself.

Wow! Thanks everyone for your kind and loving responses. 😉

SJS – I usually don’t. I was referring to the times that I didn’t put on tights in the first place – like on Motza’ei Shabbos when I’m just wearing a robe and anklets because we didn’t have company on Shabbos and I didn’t plan on leaving the house.

anon – I believe I’ve tried it, and still got the same response.

I’m confused about the whole thing anyway. In my family, when we (the girls, obviously) turn three, we start covering our elbows, knees, and ankles. So I’ve been covering my ankles basically since I was three. So when my father tells me that it’s fine to go outside in my anklets (which, contrary to what they sound like, DON’T cover the ankle), it makes me a bit confused.

Ames – I’m talking about when my parents ask me to go outside right now, and they’re not giving me time to run upstairs and put on tights. It’s not the putting on that’s the problem, it’s their response to me when I say “one sec, I’m just going to put on tights”.

NY Mom – it’s okay, I’m still “talking” to you. (You can resume breathing… 😉 You are right, kibuv av va’eim is one of the things I have to work on, and in part, laziness is also a problem. But like I said above, lets say I say “one second, I’m just running upstairs to put on tights” and I get flack for that too?

plonisalmonis, thanks for explaining. It’s seems that your parents feel that you are criticizing their tznius standards, so it may be best if you avoid discussing this issue with them. Perhaps it would be best if you try to anticipate when you will be asked to go outside to help–say, if you know that someone is going grocery shopping– and put on tights before that. You could even throw out the garbage without being asked, if this is possible, or go outside to help with the groceries as soon as the shopper returns home. That way your eagerness/ willingness to help would not be questioned.

If you are asked to go outside unexpectedly, and need to put on tights, it may be best if you do not frame the issue as a tznius one, but instead say, “I’m more comfortable wearing tights”.

Anon – thanks a lot! I’ll try it and see what happens….

Ha! I clicked on my edit button, but then when I finished typing it told me my post was too old. So much for gloating…. JK.

Thanks again for your advice, but it’s been an ongoing problem – your last suggestion wouldn’t work in the summer.

BTW – I don’t know if you’re reading me wrong. My family is yeshivish, my father is in chinuch… but I guess sometimes frustration takes over, and when I’m bedieved tznius (like if I take tiny baby steps, you won’t see my ankles under my robe), then they’ll get upset if I tell them I want to put on tights.

NY Mom – I’m not comfortable speaking to my parents about it. But I like the bathroom idea….

plonis, first I’d like to say I have so much respect for what you’re trying to do, and I wish you lots of hatzlacha in doing it!

Maybe you can “plan”. Like if you hear someone oulling into the driveway, either go put on tights or just get out of sight so you wont be the first one whos asked and only go out when you’re wearing tights. Not sure if you’re comfortable going out in knee socks and a long skirt, but maybe always keep a pair in an accessible location for “emergencies”.

NY Mom, this thread is a wonderful idea! Theres lots of talk about tznius, but no one actually does anything about it.

*kapusta*

I was not inspired by The Magic Touch so I didnt read Inside/Outside.

Plonis, I think its very important to get the dialogue open with your parents. Maybe start with your mother if you are uncomfortable talking about tznius with your father?

SJS – I have to sleep over it.

plonis: I would tend to agree with NY Mom that the mitzva of kibud av v’em overrides your chumra. But I’m not a rav. Do you have an LOR you can discuss this with? He might be able to clarify things for you.

As an interesting side note, I once had a sefardi roommate who told me when her family lived in Sudan her father would not let her wear tights because there it was considered not tznius. I must admit I was quite surprised at that.

SJS,

Have you ever mentioned this to your physician? This sounds medical in nature, and should be addressed as such. Unless, as ames suggests, your hair was tied too tightly; I’ve experienced that.

Hatzlacha!

SJS-have you consulted with a rav? hair covering is a deoraisa! Much hatzlacha to you!

why does my seminary, and all the Israeli seminaries for that matter, insist that my stockings be of the transparent type? Is revealing my legs considered more tzanua? I asked the head of the seminary and did not get a clear answer. My father tells me “you are right it makes no sense, your cotton socks are more tzanua, but I recommend you do as they say and don’t cause problems.” My mother is a model of tznius and she only wears black stockings. Any insights?

I once read in a tznius book that it is better to wear light-colored stockings than dark-colored, because with dark-colored, you know when you see the light patches you are looking at skin, whereas with the light-colored stockings it all looks the same. Of course, that particular section of the book did not mention totally non-see through, or “bullet-proof” stockings.

I am not claiming to be the most Tzniot individual out there, but I’d like to express my opinion on the matter. Women are intelligent beings, but they are human as well, so you can understand how dressing Tzniot can be a challenge.

The intellectual part of us asks;

Why dress in this specific manner, What are the reasonings to do so, How should one know what is permitted and what isn’t?

Our materialistic instinct suggest;

But this outfit is so cute, If She can dress like that so can I, But this outfit compliments my figure so well.

People need to be educated in something before they can commit to it. There should be Tzniot classes that offer a wider spectrum of “levels.” You can’t have a former Bais Yaakov student learning at the same “speed” as someone who never learned their Aleph Bet. When they hold these Tzniot meetings, most of the women who should be going don’t because they are afraid of the reactions they might get when stepping into a room full of very Tzniot clad women. Most of the women who know the rules and reasons are getting REeducated, while those who don’t attend, don’t even have the step to guide them into Modesty.

(p.s. There are several women from Bais Yaakov backgrounds, who are starting from scratch as well).

why are/were opaque tights assur?

Aren’t opaque tights for the cold?

Gezuntheit why are/were opaque tights assur?

they are not asur it just a matter of what type is accepted in different communities. i know that from experience from when i was in manchester sem it was considered modern to wear black and back at home in us its frum. i asked my cousin in israel where this idea came from so she said its because when one wears black opaque for intance it shows very clearly where the feet are, two black sticks that strike out while sheer are not at stark the definitions where the lines are. i myself wear both types but this is just why some dont like the opaque look. if one is in a place where it is not the norm to wear dark

opaque then its better not to wear it but if one is in a place where its accepted then it is fine it is not a tznius issue then

i already said that i dont go by that opinion gezunteheit wanted to know where the idea came from. i think its fine to wear nude tights but it should be obvious that your wearing something

nymom- i do the same thing with the covers of the tights!