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Sam: That’s circular logic. The reason a woman cant wear a tallis is because of beged ish. but its only beged ish if women were banned from wearing talleisim- but they’re not! regarding tefillin, chazal say michal wore it. many hold rashi’s daughters did too.
rambams rule about mitzvos shehazman geramah should hold up for women wearing tefillin. if you disagree with that, its on you to bring a rayah. just know its a big deal to go against a pashut rambam.
Rational: Or maybe it’s Begged Ish because no woman wear it, not because they’re not allowed. There’s no Issur on men to wear heels (Mitzad the heels themselves). But it’s Begged Ishah because only women wear them. So too by a Tallis.
Don’t give me a random rule and a Rambam and tell me it’s a big deal to go against them. The Mechaber knew the Rambam too and Paskened against him. Look at the Mechaber and look at the Tosfos I cited for the reason why.
Sam2: To the best of my knowledge, there is no machloket whether women are ALLOWED to do mitzvos asei shehazman gerama. Rambam is clear in Hilchos Tzitzis that they can perform these mitzvos and we shouldn’t discourage them. The Mechaber in Orach Chaim by hilchos tzitzis says the same thing, but adds that women shouldn’t make berachos. The Rema over there says they do.
I linked Rav Moshe’s teshuva above, that it is assur.
Seriously, do you only read your own posts?
PBA: You’re kind of unfairly quoting R’ Moshe’s T’shuvah though. If you read it carefully, he says that it’s Muttar (when not Begged Ish) just that it’s not worth it if your Kavanah is for Apikorsus, because then you’re changing it from a Ma’aseh Mitzvah into a Ma’aseh Apikorsus.
PBA: You’re kind of unfairly quoting R’ Moshe’s T’shuvah though. If you read it carefully, he says that it’s Muttar (when not Begged Ish) just that it’s not worth it if your Kavanah is for Apikorsus, because then you’re changing it from a Ma’aseh Mitzvah into a Ma’aseh Apikorsus.
Yes, but let’s be more precise. He says if you are motivated by “feminism” then it is assur. And WOW is unquestionably and in their own words “feminist”.
Rd, when WoW shake lulav, would you say their brachah is worse than my wife’s? (We’re Ashkenazi.)
seriously, i dont understand why you people are debating their taanos from a halachic standpoint. when a conservative dude asks me to prove him wrong about a mic and guitar on shabbos i laugh and walk away. they dont deserve an answer from anyone with an IQ over 50.
WOW is doing such out of a sense of brazenness. Ashkenazic women doing such aren’t motivated ideologically, but are following Tosafot (ha mayvin yavin). While motivation and ideology are not of any halakhic consequence, and “technically,” much of the Orthodox feminist innovations can be done, whether they should be done is an entirely different matter.
Rd, I agree. I just thought you were describing women making brachos on MASG in general.
I don’t hold like Tosafot le ma’aseh on anything, but I think the typical Ashkenazic women makes brachot on MASG out of the understanding given by Tosafot, not out of a desire for becoming an honorary man.
I don’t hold like Tosafot le ma’aseh on anything
Is that a bit of an anti-Ashkenazi bias I’m detecting?
DY: He’s not anti-Ashkenazi. He’s just dumb enough to think that he’s smarter than Tosfos.
I don’t believe I am “Smarter” than Tosafos. But I don’t hold like their methodology, just as I am not too keen on the methodology of the Aruch haShulhan. My feelings on Tosafot are best described in:
Hakham Yosef Faur, “The Legal Thinking of the Tosafot: An Historical Approach,” Dine Israel, Volume VI (1975), pp. xliii-lxxii.
Why doesn’t he think he’s smarter than the Ramba”m?
Someone really into Yiddishkeit, really into learning, one who knows who’s who and what’s what, develops an inner sense of deep humility towards the previous giants. The lesson of ?? ???????? ??????? remains indelible in the mind and heart, and will always refer to the earlier ones with deference, reverence.
RD: And, once again, who on earth do you think you are that you have any right to disagree with their methodology?
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