Women & Girls Out There: I Really, Really Need Your Help!!!!

Mytake, I know some people have mentioned this, but the best advice is:

GET RID OF CLOTHING THAT DOESN’T FIT THE MOLD OF WHAT YOU WANT TO WEAR.

Either donate it or bring it to a seamstress for alterations. If its around, you WILL wear it.

Then, if you can afford it, but some new clothing that fits your model.

i was just thinking one day, that my skirts are all too short so i walked into foxs and got 3 skirts for about $20 each, and u know what they are long enough and comfortable….so now i have no excuse :))

Tznius is a lifestyle, not just a length of the skirt. I know you want chizuk in helping you pick the “more tznius” outfit, and of course the halochos are important, but I want to give you a different type of chizuk as well. So much time and effort is spent these days telling women the exact measurements their clothing should be, the colors they should and shouldn’t wear, and it can be very confusing for good, tznius girls who are made to feel guilty because the measurements of their clothing don’t meet a certain rabbi’s requirements. In this process, the concept of tznius is completely lost.

As another commenter said, it speaks in the Torah of Sara Imenu’s Tznius by saying she was in the tent, but do you ever see anywhere mention in the torah of the measurements of her clothing? In fact the laws of the measurements of a women’s clothing is not stated anywhere in the Torah. The proof of the Moavi women not coming to greet bnei yisroel not being a sin because women don’t venture out to greet strangers, this concept as well cannot be applied to the specific halochos of length of skirts and sleeves. People like to say that these days, it is not considered the “norm” for women to stay home, but then again neither is it the norm for women to wear long sleeves and skirts. So of course I am not advocating dressing non-tznius, nor am I at all advocating women staying home, but I am trying to show how this logic is very flawed and only used to make women feel guilty to not living up to Sara Imenu’s lesson of “hineh baohel.”

If you are having a personal struggle with tznius, I wish you strength and perspective. Strength to overcome your personal yetzer hara and to dress and act b’tznius with simcha; and perspective to realize that it is not your only mitzvah, it is one of many, and it will not determine the blessings or tragedies that befall the jews, just as you leaving your house to go to work will not determine these things.

And as a last note, for the male commentors on this thread, and for all males who feel the need to discuss this topic, the most untznius thing on earth is a man telling women how to dress, especially when he gets specific about the measurements of her clothing and the tightness. Or when he mentions “looking cute” as one commenter here did. This is a women’s area, men are not welcome, and men who come in and give their two cents on this personal women’s topic are vulgar and should not consider themselves frum, at least in the area of tznius. Perhaps Avraham Avinu’s message was for you men, when the malachim asked about his wife, Avraham basically answered them she is not your concern, mind your own business.

cshapiro

Foxs’ has skirts?? Guess where I’m headed this week!

Who do you think told her to go into the tent?

SJSinNYC said “Women generally dress for other women. “

Yes, but the men are also looking (sometimes too much).

Men may not understand a woman’s Y”H for looking good, but women don’t understand a man’s Y”H in regard to tsniut.

My take: things are never so simple!!! But really the man has to draw the line on what is and is NOT acceptable in his home!! If she is not dressing to please her husband than WHO is she dressing for?????

SJS: i know; i was just commenting on us – i didn’t take it that you thought it was right or wrong.

i understand how single girls don’t dress so tzniusly – don’t truly understand the effects they have on guys. but how do married women dress provocatively – what in the world are they thinking?

except that i think we get immune to certain styles when we see it again and again, and we actually desensitize ourselves.

this posting reminds me of Rabbi Orlovsky’s lecture on platonic relationships. he once spoke in front of boys and girls, stating how boys cannot have platonic relationships. people started arguing with him, until finally one girl realized, that it was only the girls that were arguing, and asked the boys to say something to defend themselves. boys just looked at each other and smiled sheepishly.

My take::: “FOR HEAVENS SAKE” take it literally!! Is someone posts something in the Cr, they are inviting all of us to comment, which I have. If you don’t like what I said, you have a right to disagree. That is your opinion, as I am stating mine!

Yea, I was impressed that they were so long….well long is all relative…but anyways they def have cute stuff…

which one goes first Kibud av vaem or tznius?

Even assuming she is not telling you to break halacha, it is still highly questionable if there is kibud eim where the issue does not affect her.

Insist your mother tell you which rav gave that ‘psak’, and then call him. If you can get no name, assume it doesn’t exist. You are absolutely correct, 2 inches is not enough for all situations like getting into/out the car for example.

First Daven that Hashem give you the Daas to see what’s right. Second, ask Daas Torah. I’m sure they’ve already heard of a case similar to yours.

observateen: thanks ur absolutely right. but i dnt want to ask the family Rav cuz its so personal and i dnt know who else to ask i feel so uncomfortable any recommendations?

thanks everyone for the inspiration. today i put on a longer skirt. i didnt throw the others out yet but hopefully soon i’ll have the strength to do it.

binahyesaira: thanks so much what your saying is so true. I wish i did have a teacher that i kept up with but i really dont. BH though I think my mother understands what type of boy Im looking for so at least that is not an issue. I actually did think a similar idea to what you said and I hope Ill be able to find someone to give me the clarity to know what the right thing to do isin this situation and of course most impt is to Daven! Thanx so much! DRB: thats great keep on growing!

If getting in and out of a car is an issue then women should practice doing this when men are not around. Try backing into the seat then swinging your legs in. Use your scarf to cover your knees, so wear a longer scarf or carry it as an accessory, or carry a shawl or wrap which can be used to hold over your knees and cover them. This can also be accomplished with your pocketbook. It is very stylish to carry large bags these days. So practice using them as a blocking or coverup tool.

Looking to grow:: I am SOOOOOOOOO Impressed with you!!! If you were my daughter I would be so PROUD of you!! I agree with the others you need to have a heart to heart talk with your mother, explain to her that it is important to you!! May your search for the right partner come quickly!!

wow where should I start!!! i just want to say a HUGE thank you to all of you who gave me so much Chizuk!! a maamin-wow ur post means so much to me thanks and AMen! this thread is so amazing and ispirational! Only in Am Yisroel where Yisroel aravim ze lazeh!! DRB thanks for sharing and u get a zechus b/c i decided to change into a longer skirt as well so thanx! May we be Zoche to greet Mashiach real soon BBA!!!

this may sound a bit repetitive but im still a bit lost does a/o know if hilchos kibbud av vaem includes dressing in a way that may be at the expense of tznius/the way i would like to dress due to a parents request plus its not tot not tznius so its like longer earrings but not to long 2 inch below the knee…gray areas…I know if def best to speak to a Rav but dnt feel cmfrtble i was wndering if perhaps a/o knows s/o well versed who may know the answer or dealt w/this before…

I was on Torahanytime typed the word Tznius in and did a search. Well its such Hashgacha Pratis HASHEM sent my way the most amazing powerful shiur just what i needed to hear its a real must listen to!!! http://www.torahanytime.com/scripts/media.php?file=media/Rabbi/Yehuda_Levin/2009-07-02/Tznius_:_Our_Responsibility/Rabbi__Yehuda_Levin__Tznius_:_Our_Responsibility__2009-07-02.wmv

This is the link im not sure if itll work with me posting it here but if not go onto Torahanytime.com and then type in Tznius and press search and Rabbi Yehuda Levin should come up enjoy

Thank you so much for this thread. Until now I have had so much trouble understanding people walking out of their houses with their knees showing. Even coming to BY events, even wives of talmidei chachamim. I would get so offended and really blamed those who do it for ‘making it ‘okay’ and making it harder for my daughters not to. And somehow, reading about how you know its wrong but struggle with it, has made an impression on me. I am relieved to hear that it means something and that you are fighting it. I never experienced that type of fight so I always assumed (wrongly) that you just didn’t care. It has defused me and I respect your efforts. Please forgive me for my faulty thinking. The oddest thing is that I’m usually not judgmental, I will always look for another side to every story, but this has always been a difficult topic for me.

As for chizuk, I have to agree with everyone who said to throw it out QUICK while you are in the moment. I had to do that with my baggy sleeves that ‘pretty much cover your elbow as long as you don’t move’ (sounds familiar? Yes I know that it wouldn’t bother me so much in others if it wasn’t a personal issue) I kept saying I shouldn’t wear them anymore but I really don’t have anything else, blah blah blah. Then one day (circa 9/11) I just threw them out!! It was hard but quick and I was so proud. When summer came I had no choice but to buy myself new shirts.

Also, I don’t know if this will help you but it works for me. I say to myself (“self”) if you do this when you shouldn’t, everyone who sees you will feel that much more comfortable doing it too. Do you really want that on your cheshbon? This often works for me, the concept of not wanting to be a michshol to others is more powerful than helping myself.

Again, please forgive me and stay strong!

If a mother tells her daughter to do something and that something is NOT against halacha, the daughter is obligated to do as her mother asks,out of Kibud Av v’Eim. The Torah specifies the mitzvah of kibud Av, it does NOT specify how many inches long a skirt must be. As long as the mother is not overes halacha, the daughter who disobeys her IS overes.

With all the nice talk about hiow beautiful this is, the gift of tznius, the inspiration, how proud we all are of the daughter who wants to be mroe tzniusdig, etc. etc. (and you are all correct), nevertheless, in your zeal to promote your particular vision of what is tzniusdig, you lose sight of the halachos that are unquestionably mandatory. For a daughter to basically blow her mother’s wishes off WHEN THE MOTHER IS NOT ASKING HER TO DO ANYTHING WRONG, is far worse than wearing the skirt two inches shorter than the daughter would like, when he shorter skirt is still well within tzniusdig range.

Daughter, please have a long and calm talk with your mom to explain how you feel. There may be a compromise here. Your mom may be feeling that you are heading in a religious direction that makes her nervous, especially if she is a frum lady. When kids become baalei teshuvah, the irreligious parent feels rejected. When an already FRUM parent sees her own frumkeit being perceived as not frum enough for her child, it is very hurtful and an even worse rejection. That happens a lot when kids come home froma year or two of Seminary. See what’s going on and try to explain your feelings to your mom, and show respect for HERS. Explore the possibility that maybe she is not wrong, and try to help her see your persepctive in a reflective and respectful way.