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A couple of random observations:
1. Me’ikar ha din, the mitzva of pirya v’rivya is mekayam with one boy and one girl.
2. Women are not mechuyav in pirya v’rivya
3. with regard to the terms of a Kesubah, I have advised my daughters and grand daughters that, in the event they marry a learning boy, the issue of .support should be addressed in the tosfos hakesuba. A simple assumption that the wife is mochel is insufficient.IYK > . Jobs are being offered for approximately $12.50/hour,
you are right. It used to be possible to be in a “working class” – have a simple decent job and earn respectable living. So, it was possible to learn until you need to work and then simply start working. The trend is for some time that jobs are separated into low end that you mention and higher end that requires either education or business acumen. Note that there are still good professional jobs that do not require higher degrees. As the story goes – a neurosurgeon calls a plumber in the middle of the night and explains that there is an emergency in the house and he needs it to be solved ASAP as he has to get ready for an important surgery in the morning. Plumber quotes $2,000. “What, I am a neurosurgeon and do not charge that much”. “you are right, when I was a neurosurgeon, I also did not charge that much”
I understand that there are higher paying jobs. However, what used to be, was a society that didn’t claim that people didn’t want to go to work. Now, I hear people saying all the time that people don’t want to work anymore, an untrue claim. People want to go to work. They don’t want to be forced to work in return for legalized slavery. As I mentioned, calculate what it costs for a 2000 calorie well balanced diet, calculate housing expenses, calculate what is being offered even by these “business acumen or higher education” jobs and you’ll see that greed has taken over. If people do not change, we will head to a societal collapse, which will lead to world war 3 and the loss of freedom as we know it today. Jews will not have better lives at all from this. If it is acceptable practice to pay anyone on the lower class of pay check less than required to pay for food or housing, then these need to be regulated to cut out the greedy guys. We all know Jews are very involved in real estate. Don’t think for a moment that if society collapses due to greed in this area, that we will not see gas chambers again.
IYK, I am not sure why you think a professional job does not pay expenses for a family. In my experience it did, And you do not have to be a slave. Get some experience or an experience partner/advisor and start your own business. I did.
I understand that we all can find reasons to complain and worry about future –
but note that each of us is richer than the King of England two hundreds years ago in terms of ability to travel, communicate remotely, access information, even eat exotic food from far away locations. We all have millions of slaves, literal who pack the food for us, and golems that keep lights and heat on. when you do work, you have computers, internet, Amazon Marketplace all designed to make you ore efficient. We are even for now far away from tyrannical regimes of the past – Crusaders, Tzars, Nazis, Commies. If this generation complains …We have come to a stage in society where if money was not an issue, yes, you’re right, we have all the luxuries that previously were unavailable. However, money has always been an issue in my experience. No one ever gave me a fair chance at life. Perhaps 30 years ago, non greedy people who cared about others in the community would offer to help open a business to make a living. Those people do not exist anymore. When I went around telling people I needed 200k to open a business, total offered in loans was 10k, offers for money partnerships were only if I were to agree to giving 80% to the partner. If you had a business, you’d know that neither offer was realistic. Yes, I had college education, but nobody cared. This was going on over 10 years ago, so I highly doubt things have changed, as those who know of me, don’t dare approach me anymore as I point out the obvious issues to their greedy offers.
Besides, opening a business nowadays when society is rampant with overcharging for everything, doesn’t accomplish any of my life goals. I want change in society where future generations have a normal chance at life. I don’t wish to become part of the reason society is collapsing by not paying workers what they deserve to be paid.
I’m glad your life seems to have worked out well for you. But I know many working nowadays that are falling farther into debt the harder they try to get out of it.
If you think people are complaining for no reason, you’re part of the problem.Yes, I had clear experience in business working for others, but offers for opening a business of my own were always unreasonably one sided. One sided against me. Most professionals nowadays who go through college or trade school, find that the pay they hoped to make when exiting college, is no longer available or the market is flooded by the time they get the training they need. Paying off college debt has become a bigger business than allowing students to have a future. I don’t see why you think greed is okay and won’t backfire. I don’t see why legalized slavery is okay in your eyes either.
I speak to people who tell me they want to retire, worked to their whole lives, yet their dreams are slowly slipping away from them the more they go to work. Go around and ask random people who are working, you might find out the same thing.
There is no present or future without change. But it seems like I’m on the wrong platform to point that out, as most here are probably not thinking of their own free will.I don’t get why people feel the need to have less children. I’m not just talking about from 10 to 8 children, I’m talking about frum couples having 3,4 children on purpose. Every Yid is his own oilam, imagine how much zchus you will have for raising many more children than you would like to have. After all, our ancestors have much more than 10 children, when did it become necessary to copy the goyishe world in this aspect?
I don’t understand. When did the world become about peru urevu instead of ahava achva shalom and reius? Ahava or love is a prerequisite to marriage, which most people seem to have forgotten. Forcing people to have lots of children so you can have a better perception of your olam is not at all about ahava. People who teach are considered like fathers to their students according to Judaism, so I don’t see why we force people to get married in the first place, especially with all the issues facing society like those who need foster care, those who are starving, those who need housing, etc.
Have we already fallen past mem tes shaarei tumah?Always_Ask_Questions,
“At the same time, next sentence mentions “halakhic thinking”.
And again, “halachic thinking” distorted and not distorted takes place right here in the CR, but has little bearing on actual piskei halacha people get from their rebbeim. I think we’ve reached the wall on this one.
“So that you get a taste of the tension, here is a quote from a notorious letter in 1984”
I could really have done without this taste of machlokes. Do you really think that letter represents anything more than the 1980s version of the CR, but without the benefit of moderation to hopefully keep the most unwise things from being published? That was not written by any rav, nor anyone brave enough to sign an actual name to it.
Always_Ask_Questions,
“Rav Gans did not lecture the father, he addressed the child directly in a very friendly manner and lead him to make a commitment to interrupt soccer and daven for a couple of minutes.”
“so I presume the Rav knew that the father will get the message and he indeed did. He and I discussed it without the kid.”
Ok, so it seems to be exactly what I speculated. The rav wanted to ensure that the kid davened mincha. The big “lesson” to the father is his interpretation of the psak and your presumption after speaking with him about it. May I ask how the shaila was worded?
IYK,
“If it is acceptable practice to pay anyone on the lower class of pay check less than required to pay for food or housing, then these need to be regulated to cut out the greedy guys. We all know Jews are very involved in real estate. Don’t think for a moment that if society collapses due to greed in this area, that we will not see gas chambers again.”
If you want to help effect real change, then you need to articulate some better ideas than to just “cut out” the mysterious “greedy guys.” Because I’m right with you that housing prices are way too high for maintaining a healthy functioning society, and I partly agree about food, though it’s a more complex and I think less severe problem in this country where I see some practical things that can be done. But I have no idea what I can do to help lower housing prices, and frankly the language you are using to describe the problem, coupled with your threats to harm the Jewish community via antisemites in another thread have me creeped out.
Always_Ask_Questions,
“We all have millions of slaves, literal who pack the food for us, and golems that keep lights and heat on. when you do work, you have computers, internet, Amazon Marketplace all designed to make you ore efficient.”
I agree with some of what you are saying, but the interesting thing is, every time a new technology is developed to improve efficiency – hey! this task used to take an hour, but now with this new technology the task can be done in a minute! We think that our lives will be bettered by it – now we can do our task in one minute and have 59 minutes to learn Torah, but in reality, the goalposts get moved, and now the boss wants 60 tasks done in an hour instead of one. I maintain some legacy software developed in the 1980s and 1990s that represent a career’s worth of work and used to take hours to run. Now it runs in a couple of seconds, and my own building legacy of software is much more extensive. And the technology that is supposed to help us is constantly screaming at us to connect and feed it our personal information to get sold to advertisers. So our productivity and ability to connect is through the roof, but it also has created a generation of very mentally stressed out people.
IYK,
“I don’t see why you think greed is okay and won’t backfire. I don’t see why legalized slavery is okay in your eyes either.”
I don’t think Always_Ask_Questions ever said anything like that.
Avram:
I understand your stance fully. I even understand why you are creeped out. I however, was dealt a bigger blow than just threats. My life was destroyed by those who felt I was going to be successful and took steps in action to destroy my life. They deemed me a threat to myself and others, when those who knew me told me straight out that their experience with me was that I would never hurt anyone. My concern is, that the natural language is mirroring. We are not treating others how we wish to be treated, leading to situations like mine, where I face hunger problems for my whole life and it seems like nobody I’ve met in the Jewish community wants to really solve this issue at the root. I feel shunned and shut out by the very community that raised me, yet they choose to repeat these negative actions. I feel like I waste my time trying to make a difference even here, where people see my posts.
If you want to effect change, we need to be the change. I’m just trying to show where things can go if we continue. It’s very creepy, but so many are still sleeping. It’s time to wake up.
Change can happen. I believe that whatever the minimum wage is, must be capable of covering needs. If there is a minimum wage, or a regulated minimum income for normal work hours, then calories and square footage of housing needs to also be regulated.
I’m going to take a break from posting for a while and hope the positive message of what changes can be made sinks in.IYK,
“I understand your stance fully. I even understand why you are creeped out.”
I didn’t really articulate a stance. You’re calling people out to deal with the crisis of housing prices, and I am asking you what you would like us to do.
“I however, was dealt a bigger blow than just threats. My life was destroyed by those who felt I was going to be successful and took steps in action to destroy my life. They deemed me a threat to myself and others, when those who knew me told me straight out that their experience with me was that I would never hurt anyone.”
That is a horrible experience to go through, and I am truly sorry that you suffered so much.
“My concern is, that the natural language is mirroring. We are not treating others how we wish to be treated, leading to situations like mine, where I face hunger problems for my whole life and it seems like nobody I’ve met in the Jewish community wants to really solve this issue at the root.”
I think there are many people who do wish to help others and would gladly try to help you. In order to get the right help for you though, people need to know what the root issue is. And it’s not really possible for anyone to know what it is unless you can articulate it.
“I feel shunned and shut out by the very community that raised me, yet they choose to repeat these negative actions.”
There are, unfortunately, rotten apples in the barrel. And just as rotten apples hurt the fruit in contact with it, rotten people can cause great harm to those around them. But B”H the Jewish world is large and diverse. Your community is not the only one that exists. And G-d willing you will find one that better suits you.
“I feel like I waste my time trying to make a difference even here, where people see my posts.”
I am reading your posts, as are many others, including many who are not responding. How do you want to make a difference? What do you want the readers of the CR to do? Take this thread for example – how can we help to deal with the housing and food pricing crises? And also know that people here may disagree with some of the things you are saying. That is not a rejection of you. It’s an opportunity to refine your argument, to learn different perspectives, and maybe change some minds.
“If you want to effect change, we need to be the change. I’m just trying to show where things can go if we continue. It’s very creepy, but so many are still sleeping. It’s time to wake up.”
So explain how to be the change! How do we not continue down a dangerous path?
“Change can happen. I believe that whatever the minimum wage is, must be capable of covering needs. If there is a minimum wage, or a regulated minimum income for normal work hours, then calories and square footage of housing needs to also be regulated.”
So contrary to what the antisemites will tell you if you do reach out to them, Jews don’t control these things. Elected officials do. So are you advocating for us to reach out to our elected officials and ask for a higher minimum wage, and better price controls on housing and food? Are there candidates that you support who would work to accomplish this? Also note that changes like this at a societal level tend to be slow to occur. In the absence of a high minimum wage and lower prices, how can we as members of the Jewish community help those who are struggling as you are?
“I’m going to take a break from posting for a while and hope the positive message of what changes can be made sinks in.”
I think we all want the world to change for the better. What specifically do you think we can do in our own small spheres of influence to attain it?
One more thing avram, before I disconnect from YWN for a while:
In your posting name is MD. I don’t know if that means the state of Maryland, or that you are an MD.
But in psychology, it is important for people like me to have a voice. To be able to speak out. Yet here, the more I speak out, the more I feel like being silent. Like it’s not helping make the world better, because I see people who want to cause harm to others and are clearly speaking like they are doing so as we speak. Yet it seems like they don’t want to change.
I have learnt from many different sources, that there are platforms where I can be heard and my situation would drastically change for the better. However, these platforms are not in the Jewish society. It is because I care about my own well being, that if I am continually silenced by the Jewish community I face every day, where else can I turn to have my voice heard, than the anti Semitic community?
I don’t plan to look back at this forum for a while, as it has become quite a toxic environment. Yes, I do care about myself and love myself more than you can even dream.IYK- is there a reason you are directing your words to the most supportive and soft spoken of all the posters? He is addressing you and your concerns with respect, why do you turn on him like that?
IYK,
“I don’t know if that means the state of Maryland, or that you are an MD.”
I am not a MD or any kind of medical specialist. Even if I were, my words would be no more or less important than anyone else’s here, including yours.
“I have learnt from many different sources, that there are platforms where I can be heard and my situation would drastically change for the better. However, these platforms are not in the Jewish society. It is because I care about my own well being, that if I am continually silenced by the Jewish community I face every day, where else can I turn to have my voice heard, than the anti Semitic community?”
The Jewish people are not numerous in the world, but we’re BH large enough that there are a lot of different communities and a lot of platforms. Do you really think antisemites would care about you or do anything to better your situation? The only goal they’ll help you accomplish is revenge and hurting others, and that is neither a worthy goal nor a goal that will bring you health. If you don’t like this forum, there are other forums, or you could even start your own.
“I don’t plan to look back at this forum for a while, as it has become quite a toxic environment. Yes, I do care about myself and love myself more than you can even dream.”
I’m sorry you feel this forum is toxic. And I don’t question your love for yourself. I only wanted to know what specifically you were asking of the readers here.
Avram: The rav wanted to ensure that the kid davened mincha.. May I ask how the shaila was worded?
Father worded the shaila as a binary choice: should the kid play soccer or go with the father to shul. Father did not see any other option except “the rioht way”.
>> So our productivity and ability to connect is through the roof, but it also has created a generation of very mentally stressed out people.
this is indeed true. So, we now have a potential, so it is silly to complaint to Hashem that there is no water in the desert – just open waze and see directions to the store. If we can’t reach that potential, it is our problem. Maybe, when we daven, we need to focus more on “honen hadaas” to be able to use what we have than on asking for parnasa and other things directly.
a technical note on software: my father O”H, a chemical engineer, said that it will take time for computer tech to become easy to use – it took chemists several centuries to figure out most convenient vessels for each type of chemicals. So, wait a little (or help make it better). But software does illustrate what is happening with society in general: for now, most are using extra resources not always to do more, but to do it cheaper or to extract more money from customers.
Many tools take 1000x time more spaces than they did 20 years ago and do basic functions worse.
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