Women Doing Men’s Jobs

Yehudis

You belong in I’m a mother where people complain about their husbands

🙄

“You belong in I’m a mother where people complain about their husbands”

And religion, and Gd, and authority and rules…

Frogette is a teacher for girls. She is my shliach, I’m yotze working with her. So in essence I’m doing a woman’s job!

ps she thinks I’m using my time wisely. <<OOPS>> Here she comesxwexwnlex xcvbhdskadsvksaldjc sadc aiwejioj wije ciojwedij wioedbdcasbc,sabedcwjeiodjwiojdn cqwd ijw dj dasmncdsc jka;k dsf;klj sdklfj wejerq3 rij32 <CONNECTION LOST>

Yehudis, perhaps because the content of the posts themselves – disagree or agree with them – aren’t in the category of opinions that run contrary to normative Jewish thought, while feminism in all of its incarnations definitely is. I don’t agree with ujm fully on his views on women, but the difference between him and the overwhelming majority of bnei Torah are pretty small, whereas any inching towards feminism is a deviation from the mesorah and kovod hatorah.

“I don’t agree with ujm fully on his views on women, but the difference between him and the overwhelming majority of bnei Torah are pretty small,”
You make a dangerous oversight. You may say the difference is small, but the presentation, as is being pointed out, is not only lacking accuracy but foul smelling. If you make a 5 star steak house and put a skunk at the entrance you will turn away many people and be thought of negatively as well. When you claim to represent torah as well you leave people with a bad taste in their mouths.

Syag, agree. There are many saying about Talmidei Chachamim that can be used as the definition of the term.

For example, if you see a T’Ch doing an aveirah at night, then you don’t have to tell him next morning because he surely did teshuva already. That is, an aveirah does not disqualify, but a lack of introspection does.

Similarly, T’Ch-im merabim shalom b’olam. So those who do not, do not qualify.

Avira, it is simple to measure shalom, see whether your words and actions increase it or not. Peshat.

Ujm, i think what yehudis might mean is that when there are sholom bayis issues, no rov would tell the woman to pipe down, look at her husband as a king, and move on. I hope you’d agree to that. Being a king doesn’t mean that a woman bows and is completely mevatel herself. Also, a woman’s mitzvah of kibuv av veaim isn’t nullified, it’s just that her duties to her husband come first – “reshus acherim alehah”. But as much as a rov will tell a woman that her responsibility to her husband comes first, he will also tell a man to prioritize his wife over his other family members.

Yehudis, ishah keshereh osah ratzon baalah is definitely taught to kallos in the yeshiva and chadidish world, as it should be. What’s also taught is self respect and having zero tolerance for verbal, emotional, or physical abuse. The ideal dynamic is not oppressive at all.

The attitude of looking at a husband as a king is a two way street; he is to look at her as a queen, duly consider her counsel, and honor her more than himself, amid the myriad other responsibilities a “kingly” husband has to his wife. A king is not a dictator; he is a king because he is accepted as such and his authority is the result of deserving it. If he acts like an idiot, he can’t expect his wife to have much respect for him. Rabbonim advise men to earn their wives’ respect by not getting angry, learning in the house, being careful about minyan, and many other things. They don’t tell the husband “yeah, your wife is breaking halacha…she should jump in a lake”.

>Aseres Hadibros (Ten Commandments, for the uninitiated.

Last time I checked dibra did not mean commandment. If we had the aseres hamitzvos that would be different. while of course KA”V is a chiyuv, to say that the aseres hadibros are commandments shows a lack of initiation on your part.

Avira > ishah keshereh osah ratzon baalah, not the other way around.

so, you are saying even ish kosher still does not listen. Sounds true….
A little more seriously, if you do not express your ratzon too much, then you will be easily zoche isha kesherah! The way I learned it that the husband should lead in ruchniyus, but not in gashmiyus, so in most daily issues, there is not much reason to express your ratzon, or even to have it (why have it, if you are not planning to express it). To finish the circle, isha kesherah knows ratzon baalah to begin with (see Bina, above), so there is no need to even bother.

> hopefully your life revolves around ruchniyus not gashmius.

It takes a lot of ruchniyus to deal right with gashmius! or, sometimes, or sometimes not to deal. And this is where I find family needs most direction. Kids can learn basar& halav fine, but prefer to explain humros to their Mother instead of helping in the kitchen.