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Reb – I can’t tell if you’re legitimately trying to make an argument or if you’re just purposely firing out non -sequiturs to get a response. There is clearly a difference between the mitzva of Daled Kosos and the mitzva of Ad DeLo Yada. The kiyyum hamitzva for daled kosos is fulfilled through the drinking, not the resulting (I should say rarely resulting) intoxication. Obviously there would be no reason to patur women from a mitzva which involves drinking possibly intoxicating beverages in which the mitzva is simply to drink and not to get drunk. I can’t remember the last time I heard of a woman getting drunk from the Arba Kosos and it can be easily avoided. Conversely, the mitzva of Ad Delo Yada is to GET DRUNK. This is clearly a violation of one of the fundamental qualities of a woman’s avoda and is therefore not practiced.
Captain Bump, it’s simple. Women should get together in groups. Half should get drunk at a time while the other half stand guard.
reb. once again you obviously overlooking the obvious if the husband is not home he would have to leave wine or challos for his wife to make her own kiddush.
My father holds that the woman should do the rema’s shita.
they drink 2 cups and take a napI don’t understand how a Yid can take a nap on Purim. Meileh if you fell asleep from drunkenness, it’s an O’nes, But to do so l’chatchila?!
We try to be mekayem mitzvas lulav with the greatest hiddur, and we are machmir on Pesach kala kachamurah. But suddenly when it comes to Purim, after we made sure we heard every single word of the megillah, and we gave tzdakah to many many ani’yim, suddenly we can rely on the most meikil shita in achronim.Yidden! Gevald! The forth mitzvah of Purim isn’t a second tier mitzvah.
“But suddenly when it comes to Purim, after we made sure we heard every single word of the megillah, and we gave tzdakah to many many ani’yim, suddenly we can rely on the most meikil shita in achronim.”
A mitzvah can’t be done b’simchah unless there are at least a thousand MO people telling you it’s wrong. It just keeps the balance in teh world. It’s all necessary.
rebbitzin-women are not mechuyav in 4 cups of wine-it can be grape juice too, i have yet toi meet a women who drank enough wine to get drunk at the seder, even most men don’t get drunk.
Sifsei:
You wrote: “But suddenly when it comes to Purim, after we made sure we heard every single word of the megillah, and we gave tzdakah to many many ani’yim, suddenly we can rely on the most meikil shita in achronim.”
That’s completely ridiculous, and I would hope you have the intellect to understand that. You have fabricated your own standard, and based on that, you are judging the Ramo, the Mishnah Berurah, and countless other poskim from many generations to be “meikil”? They are not addressing kulah or chumroh, just the etzem hadin. You are a mechutzaf for calling them meikil. You are free to engage in the dialogue about what the chiyuv of ad delo yoda is, and you can quote whomever you wish. These are not Shu”t that are engaging in pilpul to respond to a questioner. These are the poskim that lead Klal Yisroel explaining to us what the halacha entails. And when they tell us that it is preferred to sleep, that’s halacha, not kuloh. Yes, there were poskim who stated differently. This is a disagreement in halacha. Not kuloh or chumroh.
Nowadays, women can usually get drunk safely, but most have occasional reasons not to drink. The only reason some have a minhag that women don’t drink is so that women get to keep their privacy when they aren’t allowed to drink.
why do i find it hard toi believe you?
A mitzvah can’t be done b’simchah unless there are at least a thousand MO people telling you it’s wrong. It just keeps the balance in the world. It’s all necessary.
Maskim
Rebbitzen Goldenpickanicerscreenname:
Malach – do you know why on Simchas Torah the birkas Cohanim is in shachris and not the regular place in Mussaf?
Because a kohen that made kiddush on ONE cup of wine is considered shikkur and cannot duchan.
Multiply that by dalad kossos and you have very intoxicated kohen.
In gemara’s times they did not have Rashi Light wine. The wine was as strong as scotch. Yet women were michuyav in daled kossos and it was not shouted down as un-tznius or anti Torah. True there were no Pessach hotels but people did invite “kol dichfin” to the seder. It wasn’t just family…
-if your right then it still couldnt have been enough for ad delo yada since then needed to be seriously into the haggadah/seder and conducting it. they couldn’t have done it in a drunken state the way you see people on purim.
they were deffinitly better at those mitzvos than us and we don’t see any mention of women drinking on purim.Berliner: you made me laugh, shkoach.
Of course they are meikil. What ever happened to hiddur mitzvah?
Rebbetzingoldennosepicker,
My kasha is, if MITZVOS TZRICHOS KAVANA, how does he and she have the proper kavana to be yotzeh the mitzva of ad dlo yada when asleep?
Even if you go to sleep, the maiseh mitzvah is still the drinking. Ad d’lo yoda is the shiur to be m’kayem the mitzvah. Going to sleep is just a heiche timtzi [insert thumb-swoop here] to reach that shiur (albeit not in the most mehudardike way). Therefore you only need kavanah for the drinking itself, not the sleeping.
Good kashe though.
Good kashe though
Which recipe did you use for the kasha?
I like how “ad-dlo-yada has become a verb, as in “required to ad-dlo-yada”.
The hiddur mitzvah is with heroin.
So should any heroine drink?
women are almost mikayem “d’lo yodah a whole yr. bec. “daaton kalos”
@ Nevlle…. not funny.
מצוות אינן צריכים כוונה כשיש הנאה לגוף
Someone related that the word יין (wine) has the same numerical value as the word לקח (cake). Someone asked “how is this possible, יין has the numerical value of 70 and לקח has the numerical value of 138?
He answered “for this problem there is a sim-
ple solution, have more ייןand if two times יין
comes out to be more than לקח , then take another piece of לקח .
If two times לקח is more than two times יין and even more than three times יין . Then you have to have so much יין and so much לקח that either one of the two occur: Either this problem will “work out” mathematically, or you will fulfill the
obligation of Purim to reach the limit of עד שלא ידע!
Eventually he will not be able to tell the differ-
ence between “cursed is Haman and blessed is
Mordechai.” Certainly he will not be able to tell
the difference if יין is the numerical value of לקח !@Rebitzin if you are correct that the mitzvah is being drunk then we have the shitta of minchas chinuch that when a mitzvah is the תוצאה and not the פעולה it doesn’t need kavanah. (מצוות פו”ר)
But I think you are wrong. Ad delo yada is the shiur of the mitzvah not the kiyum. And the reason might be the Ran who says הנאה לגוף.
so, now that “ad-dlo-yada” is a verb is ad, bichlal or not.
That’s the Halacha. Matza is considered הנאה לגוף even if you don’t like it. (בלע מצה יצה מרור לא יצה)
Of course you are supposed to have kavanah the question is whether you can be yotzeh without it.
The entire drinking is one hemshech of kiyum hamitzva. There isn’t one gulp that takes you over the top.
The lomdus isn’t too complicated, if you need help ask the Lakewood bochrim that come to you’re shabbos meal.(Btw the Ran is in RH daf 7)
Maybe I should come to your Purim seuda. Ubifrat that there can be side benefits.
The harrowing heroine with hair in a heron ate herring with heroin on Purim.
bein hazmanim started early for some this year.
Once the child is three, it is time to start giving him grape juice on Purim.
From grape juice to wine to brandy. By his bris, he got little wine. When he’s older, he has to practice drinking extra on Purim, so you can’t give wine because that amount is only safe in grape juice. Also, “he” is sometimes used as a gender neutral pronoun because the English language doesn’t have one.
melamdah tiflus
Sifsei Chachomim, the opposite is said, every drink is a new chiyuv until he falls asleep. Similarly, there is a new chiyuv for sippur yetzias mitzraim until he falls asleep.
R. G. Drinking on purim is derabonon which does not need kavono.
Even if say that derabonon needs kavono lekatchila, but if the actions refllect the mitzva like drinking excessively. no kavono is required.
RG, why don’t you ask your question on SA O”CH (481,2), since you said you finished it, where it says there is a chiyuv to tell about yetzias mitzraim until falling asleep? The sefer Minchas Chen on the Hagadah explains that you have performed the mitzva with a little but your still have a new chiyuv to tell again until you fall asleep.
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