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I tried raising this discussion before, didn’t go very far, so giving it a last ditch effort…
For all my fellow frumies here – if someone gets a pet dog would you still go over to their home?
I would be more likely to come over because I love dogs but can’t have one myself.
Nope, never come over again. It’s me or that animal
I lived next to a nice goyish family who owned 2 little dogs and my kids enjoyed playing with them outside. We never ‘went over’ to them. No, I would not come over, or let my kids come over, if you owned a dog. Sorry for my narrow mindedness.
nooooo
The question for me is not if I’d go over, it would be if I’d ever leave their pet dog. Dogs are awesome. Why would people stay away from them?
Considering we have 4 dogs, it would not be a consideration in accepting an invitation.
We do tell invited guests that we have dogs and that they are very friendly and like to greet and play with visitors to our home.
We also warn that if you are allergic don’t visit as 2 of the dogs shed, the others have hair not fur.
We have a large fenced yard, and when we retire to the dining room, the dogs will be outside (weather permitting) or closed into the children’s den.
Here in the country, we’d be hard pressed to find non-dog owners, including the shul rabbi.
That being said, we also have a cat, but she lives in the master bedroom suite and doesn’t mix with guests.
We had one particular acquaintance who refused invitations for years based on the dogs, until last year when we had a week of very hot summer weather and she called my wife and asked if she could attend an all ladies swim party wife was hosting for charity. My wife told her only the one female dog would be in attendance.
Not without an invitation.
Depends on the dog. I have been to houses with big, intimidating dogs and I would hesitate to go. I am not crazy about them, but small ones would not keep me away
Remember that some people (or their kids) have allergies to certain animals, so it’s always important to inform your potential guests like you would inquire about food allergies, etc.
Then, there are people who have a fear of animals no matter how friendly your think your pet is. Oddly, it’s sometimes the friendliest pet that frightens people the most because of its excitedly happy reaction to the visitors.
By the way, it’s not just dog owners, but also those with cats, large parrots, etc. who need to give this some thought.
I do home-based early intervention. Several of the homes I go to have dogs (mostly the little yappy types). As long as they’re kept from interfering with my work, I don’t care. At one of the homes I used to work at, I once saw another frum therapist who clearly had a fear of the dog. I wish the frum world weren’t so anti-dog, since fear of dogs is an impediment in this society.
A while ago, we had a dog, one that my daughter brought home. I found that while I was walking the dog, my non-Jewish neighbors, who usually ignore the frum people in the area, were quite friendly. I guess owning a dog doesn’t make you seem so alien in their eyes.
Yea, that’s the only reason I don’t have cable.
If you’re in shidduchim and people hear that you have a dog, psssssssst, that’s it.
Yea, that’s the only reason I don’t have cable.
Your IP block indicates otherwise.
Comcast Cable Communications, IP Services EDITED-10
(To takahmamash) Same with a cat. I’ll never forget a friend of mine who, during a visit with a shadchan, casually glanced at her watch and said, “I have to go home and feed my cat.”
“A cat!” the shadchan exclaimed. “Don’t tell anyone you own a cat!”
The notion of pets seems goyish to the East European set, who are generally very cold to animals. I generally avoid dogs and cats because of allergies. And while I respect animals, and despise any cruelty toward them, they are of no interest to me as far as pets.
Nevertheless, I understand why people like them. For some, pets can be therapeutic.
I think people who don’t like someone because they have a pet are jerks. So having a pet is a good way to filter out all those jerks.
MaidofCH -“I’ll never forget a friend of mine who, during a visit with a shadchan, casually glanced at her watch and said, “I have to go home and feed my cat.””
I’m in Shidduchem, but we have cats. Really they aren’t ours, but they live outside of our house. They get fed by the Goyishe neighbor!
Well that’s kind of creepy.
About that dog- that literally just happened with the family of someone I know. The mother really wanted a dog, so she bought one. A week later, she was advertising for a home for it, as she’d just been told that having a dog could ruin shidduch chances for her daughter. I was super shocked.
How do you define the shidduchim crisis?
The way you define it, it has little to do with age gap.
The way others define it, as not enough boys for the girls, it has a lot to do with age gap.
Anecdotally, a lot more older singles have pets than the average frum families. Hence we see pets are bad for shidduch opportunities.
Siman, sibah, or misovev?
SpeakerAV -“Hence why I strongly believe that from oilem is fooling themselves with the age gap nonsense. The shidduchim crisis is due to the overwhelming pickiness and nonsense which is espoused in the shidduchim process.”
I strongly agree!
And all these topics in the CR, that are about the Shidduch crisis are basically Nonsense!
The age gap isn’t completely made up, it just isn’t universal and isn’t the only factor.
I hate dogs. They smell gross and are stupid. people who dont want to consider you because you own a dog probably also smell bad and are probably also stupid. Especially if their only reason for counting you out is because that’s what everyone else is doing.
Babies also smell gross and are stupid, but grown ups don’t just tolerate them. Most people actually like babies. It’s “oh how cute, he just scratched his adorable little nose”, not “this baby is disgusting but will with proper care one day grow up to be a wonderful member of society”.
not many dogs grow up to be wonderful members of society
sure they can contribute, but members of society?
“Babies also smell gross and are stupid”
Maybe your babies! Ever heard of baby lotion? Babies are bright and beautiful. How some of them end up gross and stupid when they grow up is an anomaly.
Baby lotion does not stop babies from smelling gross. They constantly spit up and dirty their diapers.
It is a fear/loathing imbedded in our DNA. Dogs were used to persecute yidden starting with Mitzrayim all the way to WWll.
The Queen……
It is not embedded in your DNA, it may have been drilled into your psyche by your parents, grandparents, teachers and other elders.
Attack animals have been used to control people of all kinds over the millenia. Dogs don’t persecute people, other people do, and they use assorted tools to aid in the task.I type this at my desk. My 8 year old Yorkie is lying in a bed on the desk next to the computer. My grandson is on the rug playing with two of our other dogs.
My brother in law, who has lost his sight in a 30 year battle with diabetes is training to walk with a seeing eye dog. We are all comfortable with dogs, all grew up with them as pets and have no embedded fear/loathing in our DNA.
“Dogs don’t persecute people, other people do”
You sound like a guns rights activist.
It is a fear/loathing imbedded in our DNA.
Do you know how ridiculous you sound?
I don’t mind dogs, but what sickens me is the obsession people have with pets, often spending money on veterinarian bills, when that money could have gone to serve the needs of people.
The Rema’s psakim on tzaar baalei chaim match up with the Bereshis narrative that clearly gives man dominion over the rest of creation.
“Do you know how ridiculous you sound?”
ouch
Joseph………..
How wrong your observation is. I am the complete opposite of a pro-gun activist.
I’ll not get into such a debate on this board as I don’t hope to change minds and my mind won’t be changed either.
dovrosenbaum………..
to put it bluntly, who are you to decide whether I should spend money on a veterinarian bill or have to give that same amount of money away to “serve the needs of the people?”
That sounds like the dogma of a totalitarian or Communist state.
What I earn is mine. I give far more than the biblical tithe in tzedaka. If it gives my family pleasure to have pets and maintain them in a healthy state, it is not for someone else to decide that ‘my money’ should have gone to meet needs of other people.
That attitude is no different than begrudging my wife a new dress for Pesach or suggesting we eat noodles instead of beef, because the additional cost could have been spent on the needs of other people.
As long as I make the money and am properly charitable, I am entitled to spend the rest as I see fit, as long as it is legal and moral.
Besides, Veterinarians are entitled to make a living. They have great expenses in their education and equipping a practice. Who are you to say they shouldn’t have a chance to recover the cost and provide for their families.
As long as I am not asking others for financial help for my family, you have no right to pass judgment on my spending.
Before Pesach, I am marrying off a daughter. I am not going into debt to do so. It may be a more lavish simcha than you think necessary. But it will provide parnassah for the venue, caterer/workers, orchestra, florist, baker, and other vendors. What’s more for every dollar spent on my daughter’s simcha 50 cents is being donated to a Kallah fund. I have no obligation to do so, I do it gladly.
It just seems to me that there’s a blurring of the boundary between adam and chaya these days. People treating their dogs like people, with clothing, expensive treatments, etc. is just sickening to me. One of many moral faults with our decadent culture.
dovrosenbaum……..
As I’ve stated I have 4 dogs. They are dogs, they are not people. Their only clothing are woven collars necessary to both hold their license and rabies tags and attach the leash if need be.
They are all rescues, not expensive purchases from puppy mill breeder.
That said, if they take ill, they receive appropriate medical care. One doesn’t just end a life because medical care costs money. Even if that life is canine, not human.
Expensive is a relative term. I don’t know what you earn, it’s none of my business. You don’t know what I earn, it’s none of your business, suffice it to say I would not have 4 dogs and their accompanying expenses if I could not easily afford it and all my other obligations are met.
CTLawyer: It’s totally your right and completely normal to spend money on stuff you like. But I’m not buying the moralizing. When you spend money on your animal’s health instead of giving it to help a sick human, you’re spending the money to make yourself happy and that’s it. If you think it’s a moral duty, that’s just gross.
There is a story, of a tzaddik who watched a German kissing his dog before WWll. He said, a person who kisses a dog will one day kill people.
Some dogs need to wear clothing.
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