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“I threw my brother out the window a ball..”
“He said I shouldn’t do it but”
“They even don’t like it so much”
Their 900-year-old rebbe, Yoda, they learn from.
“We’re eating by the Cohens on shabbos”
JF2 – If you’re questioning the use of the term “by”, it comes from the use of the Hebrew term ??? which is what you would use in that sentence in Hebrew.
That’s not yeshivish. Anyone to whom english is a second language will naturally use the grammar or syntax of their 1st language.
“Ich hot gedrived a gerenteter car” Is that bad yiddish or bad english, or good Boro Parkish?
‘He told me, Chaim Cohen, that…..’
It’s more a chassidesha way of speaking.
“Throw my wife out the window the keys”
Yinglish
Vitch vay?
For starters you are talking about American yeshivish, which is based on “Brooklynese” – they don’t talk like that if they were raised in Gateshead or Bnei Brak. Add in pieces of Yiddish, Israeli Hebrew and Talmudic Aramaic,including grammatical variants, syntax and vocabulary, and you get “yeshivish.”
From a linguistics perspective,it is quite fascinating.
I think it has something to do with Yiddish, I think Yiddish is spoken that way and when the Jews came to the US they just adopted that grammar to english
Nechomah: I beg to differ: This type of linguistics is generally found among people with eastern european backgrounds who are generally yiddish speakers. These types of grammatical mistakes are usually due to literal translation from yiddish.
How about this (which I hear from the Bais Yaakov girls)?:
“I’m being by my friend this Shabbos”.
Why don’t you question why the syntax of Modern Hebrew is European, not Hebrew?
It’s the same reason. People use the syntax of their first language.
It’s essentially a frum English pidgin language that incorporates stylistic and other elements from Yiddish, Lashon haGemara, and Hebrew.
Come on, I want to hear some more examples. This is hilarious and true. I’ve heard them so many times. One of my daughters actually uses the “I’m being by my friend….” expression.
Why don’t you question why the syntax of Modern Hebrew is European, not Hebrew?
It’s the same reason. People use the syntax of their first language.
Because when one speaks english, one should use the proper syntax of english.
Since modern hebrew was basically re-invented and there was no syntax, the syntax of European languages was used
Most people think in their first language. Someone that’s not a professional translator easily falls into the “translating word for word trap” similar to some online translating programs. Others who were raised speaking English mimic what they hear from friends and family. It’s not easy for someone to change if most of their peers are making the same mistakes.
I can’t remember which Yiddish/English expression became accepted as proper English by the simple virtue of being spoken a lot. Perhaps someone can help me out, it may have been discussed in the CR.
One of my teachers used to say “we’ll speak it out tomorrow”
I cringed every time…
It always annoys me when people say things like “or I’ll do this, or I’ll do that.” I can’t help myself from answering “so you’ll either do this or that.”… It’s a literal translation of “ader des ader yentz”.
It always annoys me when people say things like “or I’ll do this, or I’ll do that.” I can’t help myself from answering “so you’ll either do this or that.”… It’s a literal translation of “ader des ader yentz”.
Actually, if you want to be grammatically correct, you’ll answer, “So you’ll do either this or that?” Make sure you put either in the right place.
How about the 8th Day lyric “don’t forget from where you’re from”….
haifagirl- it’s actually proper the way I said it too. This is from a grammar page as a proper sentence. Change “Mike” to “you” and it’s basically what I wrote.
I cringe when people say (or write!) ‘ He redt the Shidduch.’ Firstly we have a perfectly good English word for that – ‘suggested’. Secondly why on Earth is it spelt ‘redt’?????
haifagirl- it’s actually proper the way I said it too. This is from a grammar page as a proper sentence. Change “Mike” to “you” and it’s basically what I wrote.
You’re comparing apples and oranges. That’s not the same sentence at all. Diagram the sentences and you’ll see the difference.
jmh- that ones been bothering me for years.
haifagirl- not really, because there’s no “do this” or “do that” in the real sentence. That’s just the “placemark” for let’s say “go to school” or “go to work.” try it again like that…
Here’s another one I can’t stand– “If you would have thought about it, you would have realized…”
Does it matter as long as we understand each other.
On the topic, i have a friend who is chasidish who said once:
Im cutting up my husband, a salad…..
Im tucking my son into his pants
throw my shvigger out the window, a towel.
This isnt unique to jews but why do people say i could care less, theyre saying it does matter to them instead on i couldnt care less meaning it doesnt matter
To on the ball: “spelt” is a grain, not the past tense of “spell”. But I did not cringe.
nfgo3- it’s both:
spelt
verb
a simple past tense and past participle of spell.
spelt
noun
a wheat, Triticum aestivum spelta, native to southern Europe and western Asia, used for livestock feed and as a grain for human consumption.
To on the ball: “spelt” is a grain, not the past tense of “spell”. But I did not cringe.
It’s actually both.
So where are you being this summer? De gayst tzim Kuntreeeee?
haifagirl- not really, because there’s no “do this” or “do that” in the real sentence. That’s just the “placemark” for let’s say “go to school” or “go to work.” try it again like that…
You’re absolutely right about “go to school” or “go to work.” In that case, the sentence would be “You’ll either go to school, or go to work.” However, that’s not what you said originally.
It always annoys me when people say things like “or I’ll do this, or I’ll do that.” I can’t help myself from answering “so you’ll either do this or that.”… It’s a literal translation of “ader des ader yentz”.
That is the equivalent of “You’ll either go to school or work.” Notice the lack of the second verb. That changes the meaning.
To on the ball: “spelt” is a grain, not the past tense of “spell”. But I did not cringe.
In American it’s usually “spelled.” In England, it’s usually “spelt.” Same for dreamed/dreamt and a few other verbs.
Same for dreamed/dreamt and a few other verbs.
For some unknown reason my kids say would say screamt for the past tense of scream.
And just for the record – “Why do Yeshivish people speak this way?” Yeshivish people don’t speak this way. But perhaps the yeshivish people you know from Boro Park or New York do.
Am i supposed to be able to follow this????? My grammer is ok in english, and stinks in hebrew, my israeli friends are obbsessed with hebrew grammer, but when i talk they say they dont mind, as long as they can figure out around what im trying to say…..shouldnt it be the same i english?????
Why torture the poor high school girls who cant follow the grammer fight????? Haifagirl, were you this obbesssed in english grammer before you came to israel?????
This is also not said only by Jews; but what’s with the “could of” and “should of”. It’s “have” not “of”.
And this MUST to be said with the proper Yiddish/Boro Park/ Villamsburgh accent:
“Yoiiiish I can’t even tell you how stunning she looked. You won’t believe! Mamush unbelivable” (yes – I spelled (spelt-hehe) unbelievable that way because that’s how it’s pronounced in this situation) Actually it could also be “unbeleeeeevable”
gefen- it’s not could of, it’s could’ve, short for could have.
gefen – In a similar vein, and I know this isn’t Yeshivish but an American colloquialism, we have “off of” as in “I just got off of the bus”. Americans are entitled to it but those of us who speak real English will carry on saying simply “I just got off the bus”, thanks…
Gamanit- you’d be surprised to see the way people spell it out…
And ultimateskier: THANK YOU. My ULTIMATE pet peeve (or one of them at least). I don’t understand why nobody realizes this.
However, I do admit to not having known that “staying by” was incorrect until relatively recently. *blushes*
Am i supposed to be able to follow this????? My grammer is ok in english, and stinks in hebrew, my israeli friends are obbsessed with hebrew grammer, but when i talk they say they dont mind, as long as they can figure out around what im trying to say…..shouldnt it be the same i english?????
Why torture the poor high school girls who cant follow the grammer fight????? Haifagirl, were you this obbesssed in english grammer before you came to israel?????
1) Yes, you are supposed to be able to follow this. It’s in English.
2) Maybe your “grammer” is okay, but your grammar stinks–in English. (By the way, names of languages are capitalized.)
3) “Figure out around”? What does that mean?
4) I was obsessed with correct grammar from the time I was able to speak. You can ask the people I grew up with who hated being corrected by a fellow 6-year-old. (I thank my parents for making sure I spoke properly so I didn’t grow up to sound like a total ignoramus. I frequently wonder why other parents don’t care enough about their children to teach them to speak properly.)
5) I wish you a refuah shleimah. I see you must have hurt your fingers as you are unable to use the shift key, and you keep getting stuck on the question mark.
Gamanit: I was referring to the way people write it (as writersoul mentioned).
Haifagirl: I understand you get irritated when people speak or write incorrectly, but please don’t be so hard on them – specifically Shopping613. I really think this thread should just be a fun thread. I myself do not claim to have good grammar. In fact when asked what language I speak fluently, I say none – not even English 😉
Shopping613 said “Why torture the poor high school girls who cant follow the grammer fight?”
Because a girl in high school is supposed to have been learning grammar as part of her curriculum, and we expect something from all those years of study.
Here’s one that NOBODY seems to understand.
There’s a popular idiom that means to have it both ways. The idiom involves a piece of cake.
Does anyone here know what the proper expression is, and why? Haifagirl?
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